Non-Lethal Options?

[Sgt Nambu]

Agreed, the chances are slim a bady would be wearing armor, but it is there. Of particular note (albeit also rare possibilities), would be encountering an active shooter (either a mentally ill person, or terrorist(s)).

2nd to that, depending upon wether the President elect can turn the economy around or not, would be severely reduced ROL. Those same gangs who have access to armor will see reduced ROL as an opportunity to take your bubblegum from your house while you & your family are home...

That's what M1-A's are for, Camel! "Aw, I spoiled your little chest plate!"

 

[Joe13]

That's good to know! I always use a lot of eye glue on those fellows! This will change where my unobtrusive, little, hand is resting.

Watch out for Redwing boots and red suspenders with bald heads.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I have always hated the excuse, "I was drunk!" Well, don't get drunk! It's a self inflicted wound, shathead! I have left more than one drunk who effd with me bleeding on the ground. Always left a boot mark on the ribs or his grill to remember me by! Gawd, just writing this post jacked my adrenaline up a notch or two, feels good a rare feeling these days!

Sorry, that was back in my more uncivilized days!

 

[Alexx1401]

If my realm is being attacked I'm not even considering "non-lethal".

Being attacked, me either. There are times though that you really don't want to shoot someone if it there is another way. LEO's are a prime example. The Taser was they best invention ever for them. It has saved countless lives. It's why the media hates it so. It works without the dobad being beaten to a pulp for the great pictures. It also keeps the LEO from having to end up getting hurt just trying to take in some moron. Same with critters. I carry a gun when I walk my dogs and would lose no sleep if I had to shoot a dog attacking mine. I am an animal lover big time though. To me it's not the dogs fault. It's the idiot who owns it who allowed it to me out. So if I can prevent an attack with OC I MUCH prefer that outcome. Many dogs seem to learn VERY well from the lesson. Years ago one idiot neighbor got a pit. It was always out. One day it's in my front yard. I went out to run it off and it charged me. I sprayed it and it took off for home. That was a few years ago. I still see it out from time to time. I just open my front door and it see's me and off it goes now. Good outcome to me. Again it's not the dogs fault it has an idiot for an owner.

 

[Diamondback]

I make it a rule to carry multiple either designed or improvised shanks/Kubotans on my person...

One of these pens: Amazon.com: Vktech 3PCS Tactical Pen aviation Aluminum Anti-skid: Sports & Outdoors

One of these lights: Amazon.com: Smith and Wesson Flashlights Compact Penlight Self Defense Tool (Black): Sports & Outdoors

Several of these: Steel Grip Pens | 7 Series | Zebra Pen
Some still write, others have dead mechanisms and thus are on dedicated shank duty. If you're going to pack F-701s, I suggest you also buy some F-402s to cannibalize for refills and mechanisms--the $9 F-701 has a plastic clicker that dies at one trip through a washer, while the 2/$6 F-402 has solid brass mechanicals. A 2-pack of Zebra brand refills is around $2.25, so it's basically ~$1.75 for a more durable upgrade. How to do the part swap, along with an option to convert for Fisher Space Pen refills, at How to Hack the Zebra F-701

 

[Alexx1401]

I have always hated the excuse, "I was drunk!" Well, don't get drunk! It's a self inflicted wound, shathead! I have left more than one drunk who effd with me bleeding on the ground. Always left a boot mark on the ribs or his grill to remember me by! Gawd, just writing this post jacked my adrenaline up a notch or two, feels good a rare feeling these days!

Sorry, that was back in my more uncivilized days!

When I have to deal with drunks at work I tell people all the alcohol did was bring out the true personality. The person was already like that. The alcohol just turns the filter off. In my drinking days I was always the life of the party. If I was having fun all with me were having fun. When I was a kid and lived on the southern border we often went to Mexico for fun. I used to warn any who went with me, "if you get loaded and act the fool I am walking away from you". One idiot ended up in a jail down there for weeks since he did not listen. When we got back I told his family last I saw he was being dragged off by Cops. It took them a long time and lot of phone calls to get him back. When he got back he tried to act like it was all funny. I told him great, don't even bother to ask about going back down there with me. The answer is NO WAY ever again.

 

[Diamondback]

You know what they say, "In Vino Veritas"...

 

[Camelfilter]

That's what M1-A's are for, Camel! "Aw, I spoiled your little chest plate!"

Lol!

On the subject of non-lethal, yeah I can totally see it against an animal, dogs in particular. I've used sprays "a bunch" on dogs, including on the alpha of a ferrel Tibetan Mastif pack while in the The Tibetan Autonomous region. Works, and works very very well (or I would not be here).

On non-lethal against people? Hmm...I'm not so much a fan, but do carry a spray if I'm not carrying concealed. However, non-lethal against people has an entirely "different" rule of engagement set, in my mind anyways, as a civilian without backup...but I do suppose it's something which might help me get home safely.

Batons/knives, absolutely not (again in my case), because without proper training & maintaining that skill set it would more likely get taken & used against me...

Walking staff, yup I could see that as an aid, again talking in my case. Now that I do carry, the staff would be as an aid to allow me a zone of non-contact until I could draw & fire. Example being "surprised" on a trail or some such.

 

[Alexx1401]

That's what M1-A's are for, Camel! "Aw, I spoiled your little chest plate!"

In hand gun calibers this is where something like the TCM will shine. That round will defeat soft armor. Ever since I saw it I was wondering how long it would take for the press to start calling it "Cop killer" and demand it be banned.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

When I have to deal with drunks at work I tell people all the alcohol did was bring out the true personality. The person was already like that. The alcohol just turns the filter off. In my drinking days I was always the life of the party. If I was having fun all with me were having fun. When I was a kid and lived on the southern border we often went to Mexico for fun. I used to warn any who went with me, "if you get loaded and act the fool I am walking away from you". One idiot ended up in a jail down there for weeks since he did not listen. When we got back I told his family last I saw he was being dragged off by Cops. It took them a long time and lot of phone calls to get him back. When he got back he tried to act like it was all funny. I told him great, don't even bother to ask about going back down there with me. The answer is NO WAY ever again.

You know what they say, "In Vino Veritas"...

Those quotes are both exactly true!!!

 

[mjbskwim]

"IF" you can read the bad guy then non lethal may be OK
If not any of it may be used against you in the bad guy's court of law. Maybe he uses it on maybe he doesn't.
I know if you pulled a walking stick on me and I got it from you I'd probably knock you in the head with it. Maybe just the knee
If the guy has an ounce of drugs in him non lethal could be your death sentence. A few drinks probably not. Sure you know how to handle yourself. I'm at the age I do t want to fight. Everything already hurts!
For me the best idea is swallow your pride and walk. Otherwise I'll let it be known I ain't fighting or getting a beating.
Then they can either figure out what that means or take the consequences.
Oh yeah,with family around I would make it very obvious what was about to happen if the aggression continued.

 

[No_Regerts]

One thing to think about with Tasers is that thick winter clothing, especially if loose fitting, can defeat the probes.

 

[Alexx1401]

One thing to think about with Tasers is that thick winter clothing, especially if loose fitting, can defeat the probes.

I have heard that a few times and so far never seen it happen. I have never seen someone with a nice leather coat yet. That "may" be a problem. I have seen a number of scum in the early days zapped wearing those "puffer" coats that used to be so popular. As long as the barbs hit they went down for the count. I know when the LEO's test the Taser on themselves or others they normally use a cartridge with leads that end in alligator clips. The trainer clips them to the shirt the testie is wearing. So the barbs are not even touching the skin. Seems to still have the exact same effect. Testie is only able to stand with two people holding them up. When I bought my first one it came with a certificate to get this done free at the local Cop shop. I'm sure if I had taken it in to have done this is how they would have done it. I still have the card. By then I had seen it done enough I did not need to feel it to be confident in what was going to happen if I used it.
When I carry mine it's only a back up to a firearm anyway. Also only for someone who decided they want to fight. If they pull any weapon I would not even draw the Taser. I would draw a gun. As I mentioned before though the best part so far has been no one testing it. After these had been out for a few years few wanted to put them to the test.

 

[The B]

Taser and thick clothing - I haven't seen clothing so thick that those 50,000 volts couldnt arch across and electrocute the bubblegum out of the target, but I haven't seen everything. I do know that this is how people get actual injury from the taser, though. The barbs sticking in your skin are much less injurious than the fairly severe burns that are possible when you get an arching taser zap. Burns holes through your expensive down puff/whatever, plus blisters up the skin.

 

[Alexx1401]

Taser and thick clothing - I haven't seen clothing so thick that those 50,000 volts couldnt arch across and electrocute the bubblegum out of the target, but I haven't seen everything. I do know that this is how people get actual injury from the taser, though. The barbs sticking in your skin are much less injurious than the fairly severe burns that are possible when you get an arching taser zap. Burns holes through your expensive down puff/whatever, plus blisters up the skin.

My all time favorite was a dobad who got it in the balls. Dobad was hiding behind some bushes. One Cop on high ground was directing another to him. Came up behind him and when he said FREEZE dobad jumped up and turned. When Cop was calling for a supervisor for Taser application you could hear dobad screaming at the top of his lungs, I GIVE UP I GIVE UP!!!. He should have just said that a few minuets earlier.

 

[No_Regerts]

When we do taser training, we either probe or tape to bare skin. You may get burnt from arcing, but if you dont have contact to skin you wont get Incapacitated. You can tell if you have a good connection because its a very quiet pulse. If you arent hooked up properly, you hear loud popping.

Carhartt duck coats defeat tazers fairly easily if there is any slack in the fabric and the range is more than 10 feet or so.

 

[No_Regerts]

Taser and thick clothing - I haven't seen clothing so thick that those 50,000 volts couldnt arch across and electrocute the bubblegum out of the target, but I haven't seen everything. I do know that this is how people get actual injury from the taser, though. The barbs sticking in your skin are much less injurious than the fairly severe burns that are possible when you get an arching taser zap. Burns holes through your expensive down puff/whatever, plus blisters up the skin.

You get burnt if the probes dont stick and plenty of pain, but incapacitation is what you are looking for. If you have probes in skin, you get incapacitation, but oddly enough, not as much burning. You can handle a person being tased without feeling any shock. We no practice cuffing during tasing so we can limit the number of exposures to the subject.

 

[No_Regerts]

I have heard that a few times and so far never seen it happen. I have never seen someone with a nice leather coat yet. That "may" be a problem. I have seen a number of scum in the early days zapped wearing those "puffer" coats that used to be so popular. As long as the barbs hit they went down for the count. I know when the LEO's test the Taser on themselves or others they normally use a cartridge with leads that end in alligator clips. The trainer clips them to the shirt the testie is wearing. So the barbs are not even touching the skin. Seems to still have the exact same effect. Testie is only able to stand with two people holding them up. When I bought my first one it came with a certificate to get this done free at the local Cop shop. I'm sure if I had taken it in to have done this is how they would have done it. I still have the card. By then I had seen it done enough I did not need to feel it to be confident in what was going to happen if I used it.
When I carry mine it's only a back up to a firearm anyway. Also only for someone who decided they want to fight. If they pull any weapon I would not even draw the Taser. I would draw a gun. As I mentioned before though the best part so far has been no one testing it. After these had been out for a few years few wanted to put them to the test.

Carhartt duck coats

 

[Alexx1401]

I've shot a few people with the X26 Taser. Believe me they are not 100% effective especially on fat people.

From what I've seen I don't believe that. Shrug

 

[Certaindeaf]

I've shot a few people with the X26 Taser. Believe me they are not 100% effective especially on fat people.

They say it took about a minute for a dinosaur's brain to effect a reflex.. some of them had two brains to make up for it.
The moral of this story is don't be fat.
lol