Less Lethal carry recommendations?

[Diesel Nate]

I'm in the process of getting my CHL, just waiting for fingerprinting (3 months for an appointment lmao) When I start carrying, I'd like to have less lethal options available as well. In addition to Multnomah County being kinda soft on defending yourself, I'd ideally like to not take a life if it can be helped.
I was considering a taser (the kind what actually shoots out barbs) and probably some kind of pepper spray. I considered a collapsible baton, but I'd rather not get that close to someone trying to assault me, though I guess you never know, it could be useful.
Of course I'll still be carrying an actual firearm tucked away safely, but I'd like to have options. If not to avoid having to use lethal force on someone if possible, to at least avoid having my gun taken away while the authorities investigate.

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[E4mafia]

Leave bad yelp reviews and if you are forced to, use harsh language. Then pop smoke.

 

[American123]

Activeselfprotection youtube channel guy will give you the ins and outs of options.

 

[Member 53328]

A quality flashlight used correctly will do wonders.

 

[Tlock]

When I was force to work in Portland 3 years ago I carried a 9mm and 357 mag. The only non lethal I had was a flashlight. I seen some crazy times up there during the riots and the punks just trashing down town. Non lethal has never been a real concern for me

 

[Member 53328]

When I was force to work in Portland 3 years ago I carried a 9mm and 357 mag. The only non lethal I had was a flashlight. I seen some crazy times up there during the riots and the punks just trashing down town. Non lethal has never been a real concern for me

Same. I work in Portland Mon-Fri and the only non-lethal I carry is a handheld light. I'm trying to find a way to add OC into the load out. A taser is too big and bulky to carry on my person.

Other than that it's -
Pistol
Extra mag
Light
Amtac Northman
Amtac Minuteman
CAT TQ
Quick Clot

 

[Tlock]

Same. I work in Portland Mon-Fri and the only non-lethal I carry is a handheld light. I'm trying to find a way to add OC into the load out. A taser is too big and bulky to carry on my person.

Other than that it's -
Pistol
Extra mag
Light
Amtac Northman
Amtac Minuteman
CAT TQ
Quick Clot

I feel for you....I did 60 days at the occ and then came home never to return again! John correa likes that palm pepper spray I've never used any pepper spray. Some of the zombies I seen up there it's gonna take more than a oc spray to stop them

 

[Member 53328]

I feel for you....I did 60 days at the occ and then came home never to return again! John correa likes that palm pepper spray I've never used any pepper spray. Some of the zombies I seen up there it's gonna take more than a oc spray to stop them

I've been OC'd and Tased. I don't want to carry OC cause if I have to deploy it the likelihood that I will also be contaminated is very high. And that SHlT hurts real bad! I'll take getting tased over OC all day, everyday.

The only benefit to non-lethal is that it can show a jury that you attempted to use the force continuum and attempted non lethal before upgrading to lethal. With that said if I need to use non-lethal I also should have the ability to run away. Which is exactly what I am going to do. Physical fitness is essential.

I'm just getting into Jiu Jitsu as well (getting my a$$ kicked by high schoolers) but it's also another tool to have on the belt. Situational awareness is our best asset.

 

[oremike]

Pulling you pistol should always be the absolute last choice. Talk your way out, run, fight back with anything and everything , stay out of the bad spots all are much better choices. Some people think a CC firearm is a magic talisman to ward off evil but it's not. It's just a tool to be used in the gravest extreme.

 

[Member 53328]

Pulling you pistol should always be the absolute last choice. Talk your way out, run, fight back with anything and everything , stay out of the bad spots all are much better choices. Some people think a CC firearm is a magic talisman to ward off evil but it's not. It's just a tool to be used in the gravest extreme.

Yet so many "gun owners" think you should be able to draw your pistol at any point in time, for any situation.

Like a gun is the perfect tool for every scenario….

 

[Tlock]

I've been OC'd and Tased. I don't want to carry OC cause if I have to deploy it the likelihood that I will also be contaminated is very high. And that SHlT hurts real bad! I'll take getting tased over OC all day, everyday.

The only benefit to non-lethal is that it can show a jury that you attempted to use the force continuum and attempted non lethal before upgrading to lethal. With that said if I need to use non-lethal I also should have the ability to run away. Which is exactly what I am going to do. Physical fitness is essential.

I'm just getting into Jiu Jitsu as well (getting my a$$ kicked by high schoolers) but it's also another tool to have on the belt. Situational awareness is our best asset.

Yes! Leave the ego at home and

 

[Tlock]

Been a responsible gun owner for 35 years and have carried daily 20. Been in some bad situations and have pulled my firearm 0 times! Hope I never have to

 

[Yarome]

I'm not knocking non lethal options in the slightest, but be aware of your choices and be realistic about your ability to properly assess a situation in the moment. I don't know if I can say it well, but human nature is to continue down a chosen path to it's completion, even when at a disadvantage and when switching gears mid stream would be more prudent.

IE., If you pull a can of OC... a you're suddenly facing a turd stain that decided to pull his firearm in response... a person is more likely to attempt to use the OC in their hand to meet that threat rather than drop it and pull their firearm.

Not to mention, if a firearm comes into play, you've given up any advantage you might have had by drawing in the first place... and now attempting to draw under the drop. That's never good.

Given the OC vs firearm scenario though... it can go one of three ways at that point. 1. Discharging your OC might give you the time/distraction you need to pull your firearm. 2. Discharging your OC might trigger the assailant to reflexively and immediately discharge their weapon. 3. The assailant is just bluffing and any perceived resistance (even an OC can) may trigger their flight response. Flip a coin!

Some may also contend that "less lethal" simply means... non critical shot placement.


**The caveat: That's obviously talking about the worst case scenario when a firearm is presented, which... realistically isn't always going to be the case. If you are of the mindset of "plan for the worst and hope for the best" though, it should be food for thought.

No matter what your ultimate decision might be (lethal vs non-lethal)... don't hesitate and always maintain the initiative.

 

[Yarome]

I've been OC'd and Tased. I don't want to carry OC cause if I have to deploy it the likelihood that I will also be contaminated is very high. And that SHlT hurts real bad! I'll take getting tased over OC all day, everyday.

I'll second that. A lot of the commercial pepper spray isn't all "that" bad, but true OC is pure evil!! Besides just the initial affect... no one thinks about getting that crap off. OC laced water cascading over facial and other soft tissue body parts starts the hell all over again.

Taser... once it's over it's over.

 

[Nosferatu]

Perfect the chicken dance. It is impossible to harm anyone performing it.

 

[edzz]

Less than lethal is just one more thing to carry and fumble with when things go bad.
Best plan is to avoid trouble areas.

If less than lethal was always the best first choice ATF agents would always first try a sharp rap on the snout with a rolled up newspaper, before offing their opponent ...

 

[Flopsweat]

OC (I like this one: https://pompepperspray.com/) a light with spare battery and a knife that you can open one-handed. Learn to use each of them.

 

[L84Cabo]

Keep in mind that most police have a policy to deploy less lethal and lethal together. They try to have a backup officer with a gun in case the less lethal option doesn't work...which can happen a fair amount and particularly with people who have mental issues and/or are on drugs.

You, most likely, will not have this luxury. The odds of you being able to deploy less lethal and then switching to lethal, if needed, is probably pretty small. So do plan carefully on when you decide to deploy less lethal...and may the odds be ever in your favor. Do also remember that just because you don't see a gun or a knife, doesn't mean the person doesn't have one.

With the above said, I'm not personally a big fan of tasers, simply because it isn't really practical for the average citizen to carry both a taser and firearm. Tasers aren't exactly small things. They can be a great tool if you can figure out a way to carry them but do remember what I said above...if the taser doesn't work and things really go south.

I am, however, a very big fan of carrying pepper spray. It's small enough that you can absolutely work it into your EDC gear. And it's great to have an option between hands on and lethal force. The hot sauce can be a very effective means of shutting down a situation that is starting to escalate and get physical, with a bit of standoff distance, and without having to put a bullet into someone. And the odds of it killing someone are pretty small but it has, reportedly, happened so do keep that in mind too.

With regards to pepper spray, I'd stick with Sabre Red, Fox Labs, or POM. Also check your local laws and see if there are any limits on carry size. I know Kommifornia limits you to 2.5 oz. And it's a good time to pick up some extra cans for the wife unit and older responsible kids. Every car should have a can too IMO. To this end, consider a brightly colored model for the women, as it's much easter to find in a dark purse than a black one is.

 

[Flopsweat]

Keep in mind that most police have a policy to deploy less lethal and lethal together. They try to have a backup officer with a gun in case the less lethal option doesn't work...which can happen a fair amount and particularly with people who have mental issues and/or are on drugs.

You, most likely, will not have this luxury. The odds of you being able to deploy less lethal and then switching to lethal, if needed, is probably pretty small. So do plan carefully on when you decide to deploy less lethal...and may the odds be ever in your favor. Do also remember that just because you don't see a gun or a knife, doesn't mean the person doesn't have one.

With the above said, I'm not personally a big fan of tasers, simply because it isn't really practical for the average citizen to carry both a taser and firearm. Tasers aren't exactly small things. They can be a great tool if you can figure out a way to carry them but do remember what I said above...if the taser doesn't work and things really go south.

I am, however, a very big fan of carrying pepper spray. It's small enough that you can absolutely work it into your EDC gear. And it's great to have an option between hands on and lethal force. The hot sauce can be a very effective means of shutting down a situation that is starting to escalate and get physical, with a bit of standoff distance, and without having to put a bullet into someone. And the odds of it killing someone are pretty small but it has, reportedly, happened so do keep that in mind too.

With regards to pepper spray, I'd stick with Sabre Red, Fox Labs, or POM. Also check your local laws and see if there are any limits on carry size. I know Kommifornia limits you to 2.5 oz. And it's a good time to pick up some extra cans for the wife unit and older responsible kids. Every car should have a can too IMO. To this end, consider a brightly colored model for the women, as it's much easter to find in a dark purse than a black one is.

Lethal cover is often appropriate but not always necessary. Granted, private citizens are less likely to have training in threat assessment, but we're also less likely to get away with pulling a gun when we didn't have to.

You're very right about knife length. In Washington, each city can set their own knife laws. Most cities that have knife laws have max length between 2.75 and 3.5 inches.

 

[Member 53328]

Lethal cover is often appropriate but not always necessary. Granted, private citizens are less likely to have training in threat assessment, but we're also less likely to get away with pulling a gun when we didn't have to.

You're very right about knife length. In Washington, each city can set their own knife laws. Most cities that have knife laws have max length between 2.75 and 3.5 inches.

"Knife laws" lol.