Non-Lethal Options?

[albin25]

I always considered tazer/mace to be more as enforcement tools (used by authorities to hold/detain a person for arrest) with an armed and ready partner to back you up when/if it failed. A sidearm was for defending the life and limb of yourself or possibly others.
To use a taser/mace as a warning shot without someone at the ready to back you up, doesn't seem to be really sensible or in many self-defense situations, particularly survivable.

 

[Alexx1401]

They say it took about a minute for a dinosaur's brain to effect a reflex.. some of them had two brains to make up for it.
The moral of this story is don't be fat.
lol

LOL little late for that for me. Been around long enough that I tend to be skeptical shall we say. Too many times listen to someone tell me they are a great shot. Then go to the range and they can't stay on paper. Anyone can claim anything. I guess I just tend to believe what I see.

 

[mjbskwim]

I am more than happy email you my resume. Then you can 'Believe It'.

Oh boy a per fesh in al pissin match
Should be good
Put your internet 12 inchers away "boys" and let's be friends

 

[Sgt Nambu]

No, no! Let 'em go! Sites to darned quiet any more!

 

[Alexx1401]

No, no! Let 'em go! Sites to darned quiet any more!

 

[Diamondback]

Tell you this, AS a fat dude *I* don't wanna risk being downrange of 'em without protective gear... singed Crisco don't smell too good. lol

 

[billdeserthills]

Fatal police shooting raises questions about Taser failures

Years ago I had an apprentice working with me, we went together to a local gun show and one of the vendors was offering a discount on his wares, if you allowed him to hit you with his taser (contacts only) the apprentice spotted a sig 220 he wanted to buy and agreed. The vendor tased the apprentice with no appreciable effect. He was surprised that he got no reaction and I suggested he try a second time, with no effect. I was later told by the apprentice that he was immune to being tazed. I can't guess why that happened that way, but he did get a good deal on a used Sig 220

 

[Alexx1401]

Years ago I had an apprentice working with me, we went together to a local gun show and one of the vendors was offering a discount on his wares, if you allowed him to hit you with his taser (contacts only) the apprentice spotted a sig 220 he wanted to buy and agreed. The vendor tased the apprentice with no appreciable effect. He was surprised that he got no reaction and I suggested he try a second time, with no effect. I was later told by the apprentice that he was immune to being tazed. I can't guess why that happened that way, but he did get a good deal on a used Sig 220

Years ago I had a buddy who was immune to bullets. Amazing to watch.

 

[L84Cabo]

Well it's nice to have options and particularly less lethal ones. I keep pepper spray in truck console. I would say carry whatever you feel you can manage but I agree that things get pretty unwieldy pretty quickly. I can't imagine trying to carry a gun and a taser concealed IWB. But aside from cost I could certainly see carrying a taser and a ASP in your vehicle.

 

[Diamondback]

The game is balance. On the one hand, if all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail; on the other, too many tools or too much skill in Martial Arts and some Ambulance Chasing P*ssbucket Unfit To Feed A Woodchipper (and that's me being charitable toward the legal "profession") will try to hang you in the jury's eyes with "why didn't he X or Y or Z instead of going for the Mozambique?"

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Since merely drawing a "gasp" firearm in Portlandia to defend yourself will get you jailed with a $250,000 bail, I think it is best to add one of these to your EDC in the included belt case or a small camera case.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NKSPR8/

 

[edslhead]

Since merely drawing a "gasp" firearm in Portlandia to defend yourself will get you jailed with a $250,000 bail, I think it is best to add one of these to your EDC in the included belt case or a small camera case.

Amazon.com : SABRE Red Pepper Gel - Police Strength - Tactical Series with 18-Foot (5.5M) Range, 18 Bursts & Belt Holster : Pepper Spray : Sports & Outdoors

Or stay the hell away from Portland

 

[Bushman]

A baton is not a non-lethal weapon. Pepper spray is pretty dang effective, I've been sprayed in practice/testing.

 

[Camelfilter]

A baton is not a non-lethal weapon.

Used correctly they are, and very effective from a properly trained user. Joints, pressure points etc. I'm not, so yes perhaps in my hands it may be lethal & id go to jail...if it didn't get taken from me by the assailant...

 

[Bushman]

Used correctly they are, and very effective from a properly trained user. Joints, pressure points etc. I'm not, so yes perhaps in my hands it may be lethal & id go to jail...if it didn't get taken from me by the assailant...

Guns can also be used as "non-lethal" by that definition as well then, since you could shoot someone in the foot and it's unlikely to kill them especially with some medical aid. That's the thing, the definition is wrong. Batons are not non-lethal weapons. Try assaulting someone with one and watch them throw a 1st degree assault with a deadly weapon charge against you.

The point is to use something that is NOT lethal and doesn't cause any long term damage, like pepper spray, not something that is as capable of killing as a gun is. When I'm not using a gun, I want to use something that doesn't cause any permanent damage. Pepper spray foots that bill, and trust me, it's hard to fight when you've been sprayed in the face. Friend and I tested it one time. It's actually a surprisingly effective weapon.

Much harder to get charged with a serious crime pepper spraying someone. Also much harder to get sued for any meaningful settlement. Try breaking someones arm with the beloved "non-lethal" baton and let me know how that works out for ya...

 

[Camelfilter]

Apples and oranges.

If I draw my handgun, it's because someone is going to die.

 

[Alexx1401]

Guns can also be used as "non-lethal" by that definition as well then, since you could shoot someone in the foot and it's unlikely to kill them especially with some medical aid. That's the thing, the definition is wrong. Batons are not non-lethal weapons. Try assaulting someone with one and watch them throw a 1st degree assault with a deadly weapon charge against you.

The point is to use something that is NOT lethal and doesn't cause any long term damage, like pepper spray, not something that is as capable of killing as a gun is. When I'm not using a gun, I want to use something that doesn't cause any permanent damage. Pepper spray foots that bill, and trust me, it's hard to fight when you've been sprayed in the face. Friend and I tested it one time. It's actually a surprisingly effective weapon.

Much harder to get charged with a serious crime pepper spraying someone. Also much harder to get sued for any meaningful settlement. Try breaking someones arm with the beloved "non-lethal" baton and let me know how that works out for ya...

Guys you have to remember everything is a trade off of some sort. As I have said "I" believe what I have seen. My "advice" as it is, is worth exactly what others are paying for it. OC "can" from what I've seen (FWIHS) work very well on humans sometimes. The Taser is almost 100% FWIHS. Now if some don't believe it, shrug, don't buy. I as far as I know don't own a piece of Taser or any place making OC. So I have no dog in the fight. This being the net anyone can say anything here. Some live some kind of fantasy life on line. Who cares. Harmless enough I guess. To me it's mostly entertainment mixed with a lot of great info. I stumbled onto this forum because I was looking real hard at a new gun for a long time. I was seeing VERY mixed reviews. Since I could not find one here anywhere to even handle I was leery of ordering. In searching out stuff on them I stumbled on here. Got same results. Some great some it's junk. Even some claiming to have worked for the owner and been fired for telling him he was screwing people. Is that true? How the hell should I know. So take what you read with the old grain of salt. Some get SUPER butt hurt if anyone dares to say they are skeptical. Some will argue just to argue. If you say the sun will rise tomorrow they will start typing an argument. So take it for what it's worth and enjoy.
When it comes to "protection" you have to make up your own mind what you are going to do. Again FWIHS nothing is perfect. I personally don't want to walk around with my Duty Belt on all the time so I have my Sap, Asp, cuffs, OC, knife and 2 guns on. So most of the time if I'm not working I chose what works for the time. For me. Everyone has to do the same thing.

 

[Alexx1401]

Apples and oranges.

If I draw my handgun, it's because someone is going to die.

Well yes you best be ready to kill if you draw. THANKFULLY a lot of times the draw ends the threat. This has happened to me. The first time was back a long time ago. State I was in had no CC so I was breaking the law to have the pistol. Was not paying much attention since I was downtown mid day. Two scum corned me and had knives. Wanted my wallet. I stayed calm as I drew a pistol instead. I still to this day wish I could have got a pic of the look on the one closest to me face. They left, I left. Some of I told about this told me I should have shot him. I did not and if I had it to do again I still would not. He ran off. Probably continued his life of crime however short. The way they looked they were not long for this world.

 

[Alexx1401]

A baton is not a non-lethal weapon. Pepper spray is pretty dang effective, I've been sprayed in practice/testing.

There has been a LOT of changes over the years to Batons for just this reason. When the ASP was invented I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. FAR easier to carry than the old wood or the 5 Cell mag I was carrying. The steel ball at the end is deadly. After a few brain injuries they came out with one with a soft tip to protect the dobads. They even came out with batons that were made out of lighter material to try to keep lawyers at bay. They also took most LEO's Saps away from them for the same reason. Lawyers forever trying to protect the scum who got hurt. Many LEO's get a LOT of training in this to try to keep them from doing any real harm. Problem is if things get out of hand they can't always "not hurt" when they are trying to end a fight. To me if you chose to fight with one you should be on your own. Get hurt/ killed, tough. Now if some LEO goes after someone who is not fighting just because they are an as##ole well then they should be in prison. When they say you are under arrest you get to make a choice. Go with them and fight it with the law, or turn it into a fight there. I have no sympathy for those who make the poor choice to fight with them.

 

[Larrytpdx]

I do have a "Stun Gun" that I carry when I'm downtown in the summer, just in case the street urchins get a little too frisky with their panhandling.