Need Input on Soft Shooting Pistol Caliber Carbine For Home Defense

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I'm a 72 year old guy with not much upper body strength. My only real physical disability is that I have no vision in my right eye. My wife is 70 and we are both short people (5' and 5'7"). I have a Sig P220 Elite in stainless. I love this pistol but it's not good for my wife. Racking the slide is not something she can do. I love the P220 short reset trigger and the weight helps with recoil.

I want to find a pistol caliber carbine that both I and my wife can shoot.

For me if the gun is not fun to shoot, it's not gonna get any time at the practice range. And the gun needs to be pretty simple for my wife cause she is just not gonna practice a lot. She will go to the range but not often.

So here is my thinking. I'm looking at the Banshee 300 in 5" barrel. My question is what caliber? Would 9mm give me less kickback than 45acp?

Thanks for any input.

Bill in Gig Harbor, WA
 
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Howard1955

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I don’t know if this is even close to what you have in mind - but here’s a link to the 9mm CZ Scorpion Micro. I think they’re out of production, but can still be found.

The only issue for your wife might be the charging handle. It’s small, which can make it difficult to operate. But there’s an easy fix for that. HB makes an extended charging handle that’s very easy to install. I have two on my Scorpion.





If my wife ever takes up shooting, this is the weapon I’ll put into her hands.


Extended charging handles.
BC4AF941-D03B-4CA5-B69B-2A28601E8220.jpeg


Extended safety.
DAF266BD-4574-4EA7-93E7-B577C4C2811B.jpeg


Collapsible brace.
0FDF77CA-CF95-4C69-9C6A-3EFA7D24904A.jpeg

858DAEC3-224E-46A3-A568-3F2A28984613.jpeg


I have a Crimson Trace light & laser on the bottom rail, so this little gun can be shot from the hip if it’s ever needed in the house and in a hurry.

And a Holosun “shake-awake” red-dot on top. With the brace extended, the weapon can be shouldered. But even before you’ve gotten it up so you can look through the optic, the thing has switched itself on. Very quick little weapon, and almost no recoil.


 
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The Heretic

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Banshee in 5.7x28 or one of the other pistol calibers - if you don't like 5.7x28 I would go with .40 S&W as it is more powerful than 9MM but in my experience has a much softer recoil (in a handgun anyway) than .45 ACP.

I have SIGs in 9mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W and .45ACP - most of them about the same size and weight (except for the 224 which is smaller than the 226, 227 or 229 pistols). I shoot mostly 180 gr in .40 and notice not much more recoil than 9mm, whereas .45 ACP in 185 or 230 grain is noticeably more recoil than .40 or 9mm, even though the weight and velocity of the 185 gr in .45 ACP is very close to the 180 gr .40 loads I shoot.

I have shot the 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP back to back in the same session, in 226 and 227 pistols.

I used to not like the .40 - before I shot it. Then after getting a SIG in .40 and thinking about it, the .40 has become my favorite medium power cartridge. Granted, the 9mm is more popular and has more capacity in most mags of the same size, but I am of the opinion that the 180 bonded JHP (Winchester SXT/et. al. or Federal HST) in .40 is better all around ammo than anything in the 9mm. If you like lighter faster bullets, you can go down to 165 or 135 grain projectiles.

Also, if you look at what pistol ammo is selling, 9mm is #1 and .40 is #2:

  1. 9mm ammo - 37% of all sales.
  2. 223 ammo - 27%.
  3. 40 Cal (S&W) ammo - 14%.
  4. 5.56x45 ammo - 6%.
  5. 45 ACP ammo - 4%.
In short, the .40 is not dead.

But, if you prefer 9mm, if you buy the right ammo, then you would be fine. The nice thing about the Banshee is that you can switch uppers.

This is what I do; I have stocked up on .40, 9mm and .45 ACP ammo. I have the most in .40, then 9mm, then .45 ACP - thousands of rounds in each. I also have multiple SIGs in each caliber - some with conversions for 9mm -> .40 and I plan to get 9mm conversion barrels for the .40 pistols. I have .22 LR conversions too. If I run out of .40 and I can find more ammo, then I can switch to 9mm. Or if I need to be able to swap ammo with neighbors, I am covered there too.

Circling back around to the 5.7x28: very low recoil. I have three Five Sevens and three PS90s (one fore each family member) and 10K+ rounds of ammo, most of it defensive ammo. I have a family member that has medical issues and has problems with weight and recoil - that person enjoys shooting the 5.7x28 firearms. The Banshee is available in 5.7x28 and uses the FN Five Seven mag (20 and 30 round). The Ruger 57 and FN Five Seven are also.

I too am getting old, have medical issues with regards to stamina, weight is an issue for me (stamina due to heart issues), but not recoil - at least not yet.

The 5.7x28 is a niche cartridge, but has more effective range than the 9mm and .40 or .45, IMO. It will serve us in that niche; first line of defense; i.e., when we are out and about doing chores outside, then a lightweight high capacity firearm will serve well when we are not expecting trouble (if we expect trouble we take stationary defensive cover and most of us would switch over to more powerful rifle cartridges such as 5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51).

Downside - 5.7x28 ammo, like most ammo, has sky rocketed and is not a popular cartridge. I am lucky in that I have stocked up on the ammo mostly before the cost became 2-3X what it used to be. Also, for a semi-auto, reloading it is problematic; being a blowback action in most semi-autos, it is reportedly sensitive to pressure/etc. with regards to reliable operation, so factory ammo is highly recommended over reloading. I have dies and I keep my brass, but I intend to reload it for use in a single shot action firearm only (unless someone comes out with a bolt or lever action).

I am a prepper, so that is reflected in my opinions - I hope this is helpful.
 

The Heretic

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The PS90 is sure interesting. I got to shoot one awhile back.
They are a decent rifle for self-defense (considering the niche the 5.7x28 serves), but due to the plastic used in the stock, if you are going to shoot them a lot (thousands of rounds a year), I would recommend buying backup stocks as the stocks will wear out. Had FN been more diligent like they were with the Five Seven, then this wouldn't be a problem.

For my purposes, self-defense, with maybe a couple hundred rounds per year, they are ok - I doubt they will wear out with that little bit of use.

If a person was going to shoot a lot of 5.7x28, then I would recommend the Banshee or maybe an AR57 upper if you stumble across one. Currently, the ammo costs more than the rifle if you are shooting thousands of rounds. I have heard rumors that the Speer ammo has made it to the market finally, but is selling for a premium of almost $2 per round - most FN/Federal ammo is $1 round, which IMO is too much and about 2-3X what I paid for most of mine. The 5.7 ammo I have is worth more on the market than the 6 firearms I have to shoot it.
 

s1xty7

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I'm going to go a completely different direction. What about a Marlin 1894 in .357 or .44? It's a lever action, so fairly intuitive function for just about everyone. No magazines to load. You can shoot 38 special or 44 special for a softer recoil. You can get them with a rail which allows for any number of different sights. More modern examples have a safety but you can remove that or track down an older version if you don't want that feature. Only real issue I can see would be the weight, which is probably around 6 lbs.

Regardless of what you choose, good luck.

Edit: Henry also has similar lever actions available and I hear good things about their rifles as well.
 
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The Heretic

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PS90 - more capacity, longer barrel (than pistol), more compact, wears out faster, harder to suppress (besides the barrel, there are ammo and blowback issues).

Banshee - shorter barrel (pistol), less compact. Much more durable, switchable uppers for multiple chamberings, standard parts for lower (including binary and other aftermarket triggers), standard mags (if you get the lower for AR mags), probably more reliable.
 
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The Heretic

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I'm going to go a completely different direction. What about a Marlin 1894 in .357 or .44? It's a lever action, so fairly intuitive function for just about everyone. No magazines to load. You can shoot 38 special or 44 special for a softer recoil. You can get them with a rail which allows for any number of different sights. More modern examples have a safety but you can remove that or track down an older version if you don't want that feature. Only real issue I can see would be the weight, which is probably around 6 lbs.

Regardless of what you choose, good luck.
I have those too - lever actions in .44 mag, .45-70, .30-30 and .308 Win.

The .44 mag or .45 LC will do everything the .357 will do (I have several .357 mag revolvers in addition to my .44 mag and .460 mag), so not much of a fan of .357 mag in a rifle unless you choose to not have a .44 or .45LC.

The .45-70 and .308 for large game, the .30-30 for medium game.

Revolvers, bolt, lever and single action as backups for semi-autos (in case they get lost in a trafic boating accident).
 

The Heretic

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Isn’t an AR15 already incredibly anemic in terms of recoil?

They also are typically rather light. Seems like the winner.
Yes, in 5.56 they relatively are less recoil than 7.62x39 or 7.62x51, less expensive, more popular and better range, but I have never shot an AR in a pistol caliber, only 5.56x45, so I can't compare. I have recently read about the Banshee and seen vids on it, with regards to recoil/etc., so it seems to come recommended by people I respect (Forgotten Weapons).

I can say the 5.7x28 is even lighter recoil.

The OP asked about a PCC, so...
 

s1xty7

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The problem I would see with an AR is charging it may prove a bit difficult if racking a slide is a challenge. I still support the idea of a lever action because it has so much leverage to chamber a round.

As for caliber, personally, I have a number of revolvers in .357 so I went with a .357 lever to match. My defensive .357 firearms tend to be loaded with 38 special defensive rounds because .357 is a bit too loud and with too bright of a flash indoors. Ideally, you don't blind and deafen yourself in a defense situation. At this point, while tempted by .44, I've decided to restrict the number of calibers I have and focus on gun diversity available in those calibers.
 
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bbbass

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My Grandson has a Scorpion Evo that he likes very much. I don't know what cal... maybe 9mm. Looks like a solid rifle to me. I like the ergonomics since I don't care for the thing that goes up in the rear. (Oh my).

ScorpionCarbineFauxRightWeb.png

The AR9s that I have shot were not what I would call mild recoil, being blowback designs. And controls are a bit more difficult to master for the elderly.

The Ruger PC Carbine in both 9mm and .40 that I shot were very nice, sturdy rifles with good ergonomics, and mild recoil. (You'd want to get an extended bolt handle)

ruger-pc-carbine-rifle-1495718-1.jpg



The Keltec Sub 2000 in 9mm that I shot was punishing for this old guy.

71LXCH-yepL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 
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Yes, in 5.56 they relatively are less recoil than 7.62x39 or 7.62x51, less expensive, more popular and better range, but I have never shot an AR in a pistol caliber, only 5.56x45, so I can't compare. I have recently read about the Banshee and seen vids on it, with regards to recoil/etc., so it seems to come recommended by people I respect (Forgotten Weapons).

I can say the 5.7x28 is even lighter recoil.

The OP asked about a PCC, so...
Some people don’t know what they need ;)

I don’t know that a PCC recoils any less than a .223 AR.
 

The Heretic

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I have tot take into account the experience/skill and lack of training of at least one member of my family - while this person likes to shoot, they will probably never handle a lever action properly. Personally I find almost any semi-auto easier to work with, and the AR with a decent ambi lever easier than a lever action IMO/IME.

With regards to caliber/chamberings, my focus (prepping) is in diversity of the chamberings/caliber and not the firearms - in short, fewer models/makes of firearms, but more different cartridges. I have SIGs that shoot .22 LR, 9mm and .40 by swapping out the slide/barrel. For most of the rifles and pistols for self-defense, it is what works for the least common denominator (with regards to skill/training/ability) and then multiple that by three so we all have the same firearms to work with.

I try to cover the common chamberings - .22 rimfire, 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, 9mm, .40, .45 ACP, .357, .44, 12/20 ga. and .410, etc. - the idea being that should ammo become scarce in one of those, I have guns that shoot something else that I can get ammo for.
 
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I'm a 72 year old guy with not much upper body strength. My only real physical disability is that I have no vision in my right eye. My wife is 70 and we are both short people (5' and 5'7"). I have a Sig P220 Elite in stainless. I love this pistol but it's not good for my wife. Racking the slide is not something she can do. I love the P220 short reset trigger and the weight helps with recoil.

I want to find a pistol caliber carbine that both I and my wife can shoot.

For me if the gun is not fun to shoot, it's not gonna get any time at the practice range. And the gun needs to be pretty simple for my wife cause she is just not gonna practice a lot. She will go to the range but not often.

So here is my thinking. I'm looking at the Banshee 300 in 5" barrel. My question is what caliber? Would 9mm give me less kickback than 45acp?

Thanks for any input.

Bill in Gig Harbor, WA
I have a Banshee 300 in 10mm. It is awesome and is as soft shooting as can be. Their radial blowback really works. The charging handle levers are ambidextrous and over sized.
 

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