My SHTF Gun Combo Pic

[Silver Fox]

SanBlas-

Yeah I was playing you there. I am working out with Kettlebells and by this June I should be able to do the crossfit and kettlebell.

As I was headed out the door this morning I looked into my garage where I keep my 'at home' ammo and was looking at the sheer volume you listed. When I was in Afghanistan I carried a basic load of eight mags with # nine in the rifle, a M9 with a mag in the well and two on my kit and that was more than enough to keep me going until I either won the fight or got back to my truck. The way you wrote your post lead me to believe you were carrying all of it on your body and/or in your pack. That is a lot of weight to carry and that is without your other gear, food and water. The dirt bike/yoto option is my preferred mode of transportation.

SF-

Edit: Maybe we should have a thread dedicated to "kit" (Chest rigs/vests/LBE etc...) to help those who are learning for the first time.

 

[Decker]

SanBlas-

Maybe we should have a thread dedicated to "kit" (Chest rigs/vests/LBE etc...) to help those who are learning for the first time.

Yes please because I'm not sure where to start!

Also, I may not be in the best shape of all time but even if I was I'm pretty sure that if I was loaded down with 100+ pounds of gear I'd be moving like a turtle and one really easy target...

 

[Wheeler44]

Edit: Maybe we should have a thread dedicated to "kit" (Chest rigs/vests/LBE etc...) to help those who are learning for the first time.

Sounds like an interesting and informative thread...I like LBE.......

 

[Strongrthnall]

Man this website kicks ***! I'm always worrying that nobody else is paying attention to whats going on in our world and nobody else is stockpiling ammo and mags at the rate I am. Good to be linked to so many like-minded fellows. My SHTF gear includes my always ready tattered backpack with all the essential goods, a vest, an ak with 8 mags, and depending on the severity an 8mm mauser with steel core ammo on strippers in bandoliers. I think it makes more sense to take one rifle and a bunch of mags, easy to maintain focus when youre not switching weapons and accomodating to different actions and different triggers. I'll be making my stand at home until this option is taken from me, everything is ready at home and I can't see neighbors from my house

 

[tattoo]

With the world like it is today, we all NEED to keep in mind that there might not be someone out there to help us and our families, it may be up to us to take care of our self's. Why not try to be prepared? :huh: That's why I have my SHTF combo.
Dave

 

[Boats]

I'd say that along with some physical cross training, that some mental cross training would be appropriate.

There's a common mantra in wilderness survival: "The more you know, the less you need."

I gotta say that I'm amused by folks who are going to bug out with multiple weapons and load outs of magazines and ammunition. The first semi-irrational comment was "Only two mags?"

At least the guy only taking two mags was sorta thinking about weight.

Most folks out there are going to find a total pack weight of anymore than 35 pounds to be unbearable after a few hours on up to a day of two for the tougher sedentary. Add a rifle weighing the better part of ten pounds and this magical "10 mags" of 5.56 or 7.62x39 or 200 rounds of x51, and you don't have much carrying capacity left if at all.

Unless the world goes "Mad Max," a full blown military pattern rifle is going to be more trouble than it is worth for any short duration SHTF scenario of any plausibility. A riot, like in Los Angeles all those years ago, is a "fortress America" situation because water, sewer, electricity, and whatnot was still up, but law enforcement and fire protection was not. Perfect mil pattern rifle situation then.

Earthquakes, wildfires, floods, pandemics, etc., anything that requires mobility, is going to be hampered by your typical long gun. A service caliber handgun is going to be much more important as it is lighter, more concealable, and out of the way since odds are great that it won't be called upon to fire a shot in anger anyways.

Things that should replace a rifle for a temporary break down of social order that is not characterized by general lawlessness:

A method of shelter. Even if this is merely a sleeping bag, a ground pad, and a synthetic tarp, you're going to need something on the move, and around these parts, something that sheds the rain.

A method of water procurement and storage. What are you going to do if the water mains break? You could tap the hot water heater or even salvage tank water from toilets, but you could drink from puddles, creeks, and any other non-chemically contaminated water if you replace a few of your loaded rifle mags with a pump actuated water filter, especially one that could attach directly to a Camelback's filling hole.

A high quality sheath knife that has not made its way into your gear from China by way of looking "badass" at the Big 5 counter display. If you buy real guns, man up and spend the minimum $75.00-$450.00 it takes to get a bomb proof full tang knife in a high quality steel in the style you prefer and then get a field sharpening kit and learn how to use it.

Along those same lines, a high quality multi-tool is a must for picking over the bones of civilization, maintaining your firearm, building a trap, etc. Make sure it has a saw.

Multiple methods of starting fires that do not rely upon matches or a lighter would be wise. A magnesium block and misch metal striker rod are tough to beat here.

A method to cook and boil water. Even if this is merely some screens that you can assemble into a box and stuff twigs and sticks into it for a little wood stove, if you can stand a metal pot on it, life will be much easier. I like Swedish mil-surp alcohol stoves for this purpose.

A portable crank powered radio, with shortwave reception if possible, would keep you in a better loop of info than someone running blind.

A tough pair of binoculars of at least 8 power. It's better to see trouble early than to stumble into it.

A USGS map of the surrounding countryside and a street map of where you live, already in a plastic map case or bag of some sort.

A baseplate compass and the ability to land navigate with it. Your GPS signal might be down, or purposely terminated, or your batteries might crap out.

A comprehensive first aid kit.

A survival manual like the SAS Survival Guide or other one that can serve as your memory on making things like squirrel stick traps and other tips that could get you out of a jam.

Some provisions for eating. You'll need a lot of calories under load on the move, so some freeze dried food in the MRE style is pretty much an essential.

Some spare clothes, underwear and socks. What if you get wet? What if you start developing a fungal problem from wearing the same skivvies for three weeks straight?

Long story short, LOL, is that if you rely upon gear for your survival and do not want to send time and energy as a refugee creating makeshift shelters, hunting for useable water you don't have to treat, hunting or trapping, etcetera, that stuff is going to displace a lot of your man packed arsenal.

Even if you split your gun and ammo load among several people, the longer you go without shooting at anyone, the more protests you will field about the suddenly "unnecessary weight."

It's better to have that argument with yourself now rather than during a leadership crisis on "The Road."

"Bug in." Main rifle is probably my Vz-58 or my Garand, depending on how many people need to get off of my lawn. I would also have access to a stable full of shotguns and handguns.

"Short term bug out--natural disaster." My CCW rig, a 1911A1 and five total mags, maybe another box of JHP and a 50 round box of FMJ. A Beretta 21 in .22lr for deep concealment and two mags.

"Short term bug out-lawessness." My Mossberg 590A1, 60 rounds of 00 Buck and 20 slug rounds. Beretta PX-4 9mm and five mags, three 17 rounders and two 20 rounders. Thought here is that the .72 caliber maw of a 12ga has a terrible amount of visual deterrence to a potential bad guy but at the same time doesn't scream "arrest me now" to any skittish cops or National Guardsmen. A shotgun conveys an implied defensive--rather than offensive--intent. High capacity pistol is for breaking contact up close.

"Long term bug out natural disaster or lawlessness." Here my thinking runs along a combo of my Marlin 1894 CB and Ruger GP-100 in .357 Mag, a can of Bullsye, a bullet mold, about 10,000 primers, a mix of 300 initially loaded .357 magnum rounds in a variety of loadings from mouse fart to full house, and a Lee hand press reloading kit for the caliber. Thoughts here are that my revolver retains brass and my carbine doesn't chuck it all over creation. I can reload the cases until they are absolutely dangerous. If need be, bullets can be molded from tire wheel weights or fishing weights. The hand reloader, while sort of a minor pain in the keister, is portable, and I'll have plenty of time to work on such things. The firearms are not feed sensitive, magazine dependent, cycling dependent upon consistent ammunition, and .357 magnum cases have enough capacity to use black powdered loads if things came to that. The carbine is a serviceable rifle inside of 200m when using tang sights and while not a true rifle performer at range, it will ruin a bad guy's apocalypse if I do my part.

 

[matt_w]

^^^^ good points. I never really thought it would be useful to take one of my assault rifles if for some reason I have to leave my home (unless there is an all out Red Dawn type situation). Besides being large and bulky, it would attract too much attention. I might carry my Ar-7, but that folds up and only weighs 2 pounds.

 

[powersbj]

I wanna see people hike hurricane ridge with their bugout bags!

I also wonder why everyone seems to think AR vs AK.... I think I would grab the 20ga... The 12ga is to much weight... Now if I can figure out how to also use the dang thing as a walking stick it would probably be alot more useful.

 

[Boats]

My field selections were chosen mostly with a balance of weight and effectiveness as the measures.

A fully loaded Vz-58 has a milled steel receiver, but weighs a full pound less than a fully loaded stamped AK, mainly due to the VZ using a FAL-like tilting block and short stroke piston arrangement rather than a massive rotary bolt and long stroke piston affair. Also, the Czech weapon uses aluminum bodied magazines and the AK uses steel. Both weapons fire 7.62x39mm, which I believe to be a more suitable round for SHTF, for a guy who is not supported by a squad of other poodle shooters.

Even as the 590A1 is an "overbuilt" mil-spec combat shotgun, it uses an aluminum receiver and weighs a little less than a M-4 with doodads hanging off of it. The ammo is heavier, but within the 35 yard range for 00 Buck and the ~125-200m range for slugs, the ammo is a one and done affair for the unarmored opponent if you get lead on target.

For the 1894c or CB, the .357 Mag weighs slightly less than do 7.62 commie rounds, but they also get to ride without a magazine. Loaded, the 1894C is a <7lb weapon.

 

[tattoo]

My AK on the 1st post weighs in at 7lb,4oz. A loaded 30 round steel mag is 1lb, 14oz. Colt 45 with 3 mags loaded with 7 rounds each of JHPs weighs in at 3lb,9oz. Browning BuckMark 22lr with 2 empty mags weighs 2lb,2oz. 1 Box 550 rounds federal 22LR weighs 3lbs, 15 oz. Marlin 22lr rifle with scope is 6lb, 6oz. Just wanted to give you an Idea of what I have on the 1st post weighs.
Dave

 

[TwoAlphaHotdog]

I've done alot of thinking on the matter. And I'd stick with one long gun and a pistol. The long gun would be my AR. And the pistol a Stainless S&W 617 22lr. 10 shot. The AR I know inside and out (since I built it), it has a Trijicon ACOG TA01NSN (no batteries needed). I figure .223/5.56 will be one of the most plentiful ammo sources avalible. It will take down any game needed for survival. The Smith will be good to take small game, and .22lr ammo is light and super plentiful. I like the idea of a revolver for the ease of maintinance. I am a little torn on the AR for the same reason. But I figure in a real bad SHTF situation M-16's, M4's ect.... will be around. So why not have mags and ammo for that platform already. Although a good .223 bolt gun with a good scope and back up iron sights would do well (heck a .308 bolt gun would'nt be a bad choice).