Laser or Light for Home Defense? Which would you get?

[Gunner3456]

I am not "advocating" anything, other than that nascent shooters should be spared rifle evangelism unless they have range needs similar to yours.

I am saying that there is a very detectable one size fits all approach from the rifle acolytes too.

Most people can shoot a long gun a lot better than they can shoot a pistol unless they have a lot of training and practice. I have heard very few arguments against a defensive shotgun ever, but all of a sudden for you, the format is too long. I have to assume that if the length of an AR is too long, then so is a defensive shotgun.

I just don't buy the authoritative nonsense without knowing each person's experience and type of home.

The last thing I'd grab for home defense in my situation is a pistol. The pistol is reserved for plinking and target practice and daily CCW. If I could conceal an AR, I'd still prefer it to the handgun.

 

[d1esel]

I highly recommend Fenix flashlights <broken link removed> . They are some of the best lights available. Better than Streamlight and Surefire IMO. I have a TK40 that absolutely rocks! Fort Moe is a stocking dealer.

 

[willseeker]

Having actually boarded strange watercraft for keeps in the midst of the Iran-Iraq War as we were escorting Kuwaiti tankers against Iranian interdiction and using M-14s, M-16A2s, M870s, and 1911A1s for the task, I find myself to have absorbed enough "training" to say that the AR isn't the best choice for home defense under most realistic circumstances short of full scale dynamic invasion.



I have used long weapons in even tighter places than the average homeowner faces. I have seen ridiculous notions on the internet that go, "Look at your arms extended--just about as long as a carbine's muzzle out there," that are so preposterous as to defy belief. Yes, folks with handguns clearing their own houses do so prancing about in the modern isosceles or weaver stances, all out, all the time, rigid like a rifle barrel. It amounts to people selling training pimping this popular rifle for a role it is less than ideal for when one guy has to do it all.



I'm sorry, but a one man stick with a rifle and 100&#37; AOR on every tactical movement, with something occupying his other hand, is ridiculous. With a pistol gripped rifle one does indeed enjoy leverage to perform many of the tasks involved in successfully navigating a house, but not really at the same time as being "more accurate than a handgun." If you are practicing good trigger discipline, your index finger is out of the game for the most part and you are swinging around a single action triggered 6.5-9.5 pound rifle with three fingers and a thumb either hot or on safe. Imagine someone saying, "I have good leverage on my Benelli M4 when opening doors." That statement would not be amusing because of the mental picture of some poor sap lighting off #00 Buck one handed and suffering recoil, it's visually funny imagining this super hero leveraging his seven or eight pound weapon into action and getting off a solidly aimed shot one handed that does it.

IMO a handgun is more versatile for one man search and snap firing one handed both strong and weak side as demanded by the layout and the nature of any concealment or cover you may have. Rifles and shotguns are best left for grabbing to run outside to engage someone who needs stopping, or for making a dominant fixed point defense at a good bottleneck within one's home, not for clearing it from one end to the other dynamically.

When by one's self, going across the threshold of a doorway, or getting caught looking the wrong way in your one man tactical formation, when a "Whoops, should have taken the knob side on that door rather than the hinge side" surprise intruder is now present--turns a long gun from a strength into a liability--especially if it is currently being held one handed and one is not slung in at all. There is more weapon to wrestle with and more leverage that can be applied against you hand to hand if you get surprised. These precise issues are why the point in a clearing team is oftentimes a handgunner--Someone has to get the door, usually by trying the doorknob first--unless of course you enjoy breaching walls or kicking in your own doors to check out bumps in the night.



I agree that it is not an issue at 10 yards. Do you have a lot of thirty foot long rooms in your house? If so, congratulations Bruce Wayne on the size of your stately manor. The disparity between sights and bore could be an issue at seven FEET when cw009 takes his "precision shot" at the BG's noggin over where he thinks his loved one's brachial artery runs through her shoulder. I'd rather take a >THISclose< money shot with a trusted handgun than any rifle with much higher than bore axis sights like an AR or AK. In fact, many of those "formally trained" high speed low drag types will employ handguns for precision room clearing where hostages are in harm's way. They must be wasting time and money that could be spent more usefully when they do that.



Most AR owners run Tascos and BSAs, not Aimpoints, Trijicons, and EOTechs.



Your not caring about noise and flash when most such encounters will occur at night doesn't make such things a non-factor.



Legal training isn't a big topic at "tactical" rifle classes.



Use what you'd like, it's the rifle evangelism from certain quarters I have a serious concern about.



You don't know a damn thing about me other than that I am a self-confessed opinionated S.O.B. I've humped plenty of long guns in plenty of tight spaces, under real world stress. Play live action Rainbow 6 with classmates all you want, but it is unrealistic and possibly irresponsible advice to spread around that clearing one's castle by one's self with a rifle is the bee's knees just because you can buy TAP for your poodle shooter.



Just calling it like I see it.

Hey Boats! So, was that a Laser or a Light?




Boats, I can see that you will and are a great contributor to this forum and my thread.
Gunner, you've always been one of my favorites.
Wakejoe, glad to have your input.
Cw009, I thought that your comment was good...
even though out of topic.
...and thanks all, for shedding a light (no pun intended) on what type of light to use in my modest home.
ps, as always, thanks D1esel!
Will

 

[Boats]

Hey Boats! So, was that a Laser or a Light?




Boats, I can see that you will and are a great contributor to this forum and my thread.
Gunner, you've always been one of my favorites.
Wakejoe, glad to have your input.
Cw009, I thought that your comment was good...
even though out of topic.
...and thanks all, for shedding a light (no pun intended) on what type of light to use in my modest home.
ps, as always, thanks D1esel!
Will

The stock answer is always "BOTH!"

Most people can shoot a long gun a lot better than they can shoot a pistol unless they have a lot of training and practice. I have heard very few arguments against a defensive shotgun ever, but all of a sudden for you, the format is too long. I have to assume that if the length of an AR is too long, then so is a defensive shotgun.

I'd no sooner prowl mine or most houses with a shotgun as I would with a rifle. Conversely, if I am sitting tight, because I KNOW something is positively amiss elsewhere in the house, I am bringing out the 590A1 and laying in the VZ-58 by the wall. Then the handgun has gone to its traditional back-up role.

I just don't buy the authoritative nonsense without knowing each person's experience and type of home.

Nonsense is in the eye of the beholder. For example, defending a studio apartment with a mil pattern autoloader is tragicomic.

The last thing I'd grab for home defense in my situation is a pistol. The pistol is reserved for plinking and target practice and daily CCW. If I could conceal an AR, I'd still prefer it to the handgun.

More power to you. You've made both your situation and your burning passion for the AR abundantly clear.:winkkiss:

 

[Gunner3456]

I'd no sooner prowl mine or most houses with a shotgun as I would with a rifle.

I wasn't talking about you protecting your mama's trailer where you live. I was talking against you taking a position about appropriate arms in a one-size-fits-all for everyone ideal, and even being a smart azz about many of us who have "mansions" by your condescending description. I'm not the only one by far here with a "mansion" (although I never thought of it as that) you know.

Can you tell that remark really pizzed me off? Do you know that remark really lowered you in my estimation, because it showed me that you are a little boy who doesn't relate to people who have nice big homes - even modest homes with 30' down a hall and across a living room? I earned my home, thank you, and I'm not by far the only one.

You challenge a member about whether he has a 30' shot as if that's outrageous when many of us have 60' open spaces. We also have acreage to defend in a SHTF scenario.

You simply, if your advice is to be of any value, must adjust your thinking to all situations and not just blurt out authoritatively what is "right." I suggest that you occasionally get out of your mom's trailer park and see the real world.

Cliff

 

[Boats]

I wasn't talking about you protecting your mama's trailer where you live. I was talking against you taking a position about appropriate arms in a one-size-fits-all for everyone ideal, and even being a smart azz about many of us who have "mansions" by your condescending description. I'm not the only one by far here with a "mansion" (although I never thought of it as that) you know.

Can you tell that remark really pizzed me off? Do you know that remark really lowered you in my estimation, because it showed me that you are a little boy who doesn't relate to people who have nice big homes - even modest homes with 30' down a hall and across a living room? I earned my home, thank you, and I'm not by far the only one.

You challenge a member about whether he has a 30' shot as if that's outrageous when many of us have 60' open spaces. We also have acreage to defend in a SHTF scenario.

You simply, if your advice is to be of any value, must adjust your thinking to all situations and not just blurt out authoritatively what is "right." I suggest that you occasionally get out of your mom's trailer park and see the real world.

Cliff

Really, I understand your aversion of handguns, you run a frickin' Glock after all. In .40S&W, you are virtually carrying a hand grenade you can't even throw for area effect.

I made fun of the thirty foot figure because yeah, most homes will have at least a few shots that can be made that far. Others, after burying their faces in the coke pile, might even have to shoot up their atriums, perhaps with a 40mm grenade.

Point was that 10 yards indoors was a rather arbitrary figure to pick and certainly one that conveniently aided the rifle argument. Even if possible in most homes in plenty of hallways or great rooms, or **** even a decent half basement, 10 yards in dim light is not going to likely be in a category of most common shots that could be catalogued as likely distances in most homes without fabulously airy floor plans.

And you keep harping on your acreage like that factor is common. This sub thread started when cw009 linked some vague video from the Super Duper Tacticians World where, without even firing any at the drywall boards, the gurus proclaimed authoritatively that TAP would be a great choice if penetration is a concern, and you SHOULD BE CONCERNED, even if we are not going to show you how our pet cartridge would really do apples to apples. Acreage wasn't really the concern. They failed the Missouri test with a camera, an AR, and drywall right there at their disposal.

But it was food for thought alright. About as high quality a meal as snarfing a can of Alpo would be.

 

[airbornesniper]

I go laser here is why... If your aiming a pistol it's lines up to your face correct if an intruder has a firearm god forbid that light is a great point of Aim for the bad guy just food for thought nights sights and a laser will do fine.

 

[willseeker]

I go laser here is why... If your aiming a pistol it's lines up to your face correct if an intruder has a firearm god forbid that light is a great point of Aim for the bad guy just food for thought nights sights and a laser will do fine.

One more time Airbornesniper, the message came over garbled. Over.


Will

 

[Gunner3456]

I've mentioned to you before that you're pretty new here to just go off insulting whole groups of people, imho.

Really, I understand your aversion of handguns, you run a frickin' Glock

Insult #1 at a pretty large number of members here. ??

after all. In .40S&W, you are virtually carrying a hand grenade you can't even throw for area effect.

Insult #2 at most of the rest of us, regardless of pistol brand.

I made fun of the thirty foot figure because yeah, most homes will have at least a few shots that can be made that far. Others, after burying their faces in the coke pile,

Insult #3 which I hope doesn't apply to any members here except of course you.

might even have to shoot up their atriums,

We do have a big-time atrium lover here, and perhaps more than one. Insult # 4.

perhaps with a 40mm grenade.

#5, and you also got more than 2/3 of all LEOs in this country with that one.

Point was that 10 yards indoors was a rather arbitrary figure to pick and certainly one that conveniently aided the rifle argument. Even if possible in most homes in plenty of hallways or great rooms, or **** even a decent half basement, 10 yards in dim light is not going to likely be in a category of most common shots that could be catalogued as likely distances in most homes without fabulously airy floor plans.

You don't get out much, do you? Insult #6 from you.

No, if you look at most homes, except your mom's trailer, you'll find that the length of the hallway plus the distance across the living/great room is usually at least 30'. You just can't lump an assumption of other peoples' circumstances into a "rule."

And you keep harping on your acreage like that factor is common.

I'm not "harping" on my acreage. I'm "harping" on your bossy, authoritative posts which presuppose that everyone has the same circumstances and therefore your "one, correct" answer is correct for everyone.

What you wind up doing is giving BAD advice to at least some people.

This sub thread started when cw009 linked some vague video from the Super Duper Tacticians World where, without even firing any at the drywall boards, the gurus proclaimed authoritatively that TAP would be a great choice if penetration is a concern, and you SHOULD BE CONCERNED, even if we are not going to show you how our pet cartridge would really do apples to apples. Acreage wasn't really the concern. They failed the Missouri test with a camera, an AR, and drywall right there at their disposal.

But the thread didn't stay with that subject, and neither did you.

But it was food for thought alright. About as high quality a meal as snarfing a can of Alpo would be.

I've lost the insult count #, but nice shot at the OP.

 

[d1esel]

Did I mention I like Fenix flashlights?

 

[SICARIO]

I have both the streamlight and crimson trace on my G22, I would start with the light, and then get the laser

 

[Gunner3456]

Did I mention I like Fenix flashlights?

No, I don't think you did.

 

[willseeker]

Did I mention I like Fenix flashlights?

Yup. It's a good suggestion. Now if I can only keep the kids from fighting

Will

 

[Boats]

I've mentioned to you before that you're pretty new here to just go off insulting whole groups of people, imho.

Whatever you say boss. On the internet, I've always found that folks are only insulted to the degree that they indulge their own inner Morris Albert.



And get it straight, it's not a double wide, it's a Jumping Jack pop-up with a flat tire squatting on a vacant lot. The entire self defense plan is to run a propane heater in it while the flaps are closed. That's bona fide Portland Hunter Tactics right there.

 

[torpedoman]

check out flashlight hack on utube and make your own light I've done a few for myself and friends and everyone loves them.

 

[Gunner3456]

Whatever you say boss. On the internet, I've always found that folks are only insulted to the degree that they indulge their own inner Morris Albert.

No matter where I've been internet or not, I've found that people's feelings can be hurt by any idiot, anywhere.



And get it straight, it's not a double wide, it's a Jumping Jack pop-up with a flat tire squatting on a vacant lot. The entire self defense plan is to run a propane heater in it while the flaps are closed. That's bona fide Portland Hunter Tactics right there.

I never gave it credit as, or mentioned it being a double wide. I never assumed you could rise to that level. The assumption was for what you just described.

 

[Gunner3456]

Yup. It's a good suggestion. Now if I can only keep the kids from fighting

Will

I am a grown man. I regard at least one here as a kid.

 

[Gunner3456]

check out flashlight hack on utube and make your own light I've done a few for myself and friends and everyone loves them.

That is a COOL vid. I have to try that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnkjvEdeIlc

 

[willseeker]

check out flashlight hack on utube and make your own light I've done a few for myself and friends and everyone loves them.

Cool idea! This kid's gonna try it.



Will

 

[Boats]

I am a grown man. I regard at least one here as a kid.

My money as to the kid is on the one who gets his widdle feelings hurt by comments not even directed towards him.

Full grown men with a well developed sense of self and of humor don't get so torqued over internet commentary nor play pseudo-moderator.