Other State KY EMT killed in police raid on wrong apt

[Joel54]

Everyone might want to read the application for, and the actual search warrant, that the judge granted. This "victims" apartment had been under surveillance for some time. The boyfriend, who was in bed with the "victim" had priors for drugs and unlawful weapons possession. The boyfriend has been using the "victim's" vehicle to transport narcotics in to, and out of, this apartment. This apartment was being used as a stash house for narcotics and illegal proceeds of the narcotics trafficking. With the prior unlawful weapons charges the judge granted a "no knock" warrant. It is not clear whether or not the police actually made notice prior to entry.

The boyfriend was involved with at least four other people that were being under surveillance as well. They were using multiple apartments/houses for their narcotics dealing. This was verified by video surveillance. This was not Mister Innocent, just catching a few Z's. This was a violent felon, unlawfully armed, in a place where he has been conducting his unlawful, felonious, criminal activities. Now, here's the question, was the "victim" involved in the criminal activity in that apartment? There is no indication she had knowledge of that activity. However, after reading the warrant, she would have to have been deaf, dumb and blind not to know what he was doing. Further, the boyfriend was identified in using two specific vehicle was transporting his drugs, one of which belonged to the "victim".

 

[Joel54]

Cops bust into wrong home.
Man wakes up and fires at invaders, hitting a cop.
Cops fire 25 rounds, miss the man but put 8 bullets into his girlfriend.
Man arrested for assault and attempted murder of a police officer.
Black woman shot and killed after Kentucky police entered her home as she slept, family says

They didn't bust into the wrong apartment. Read the search warrant! They busted in because boyfriend was unlawfully armed felon with drugs and money in the apartment. The apartment was being used as a stash house. boyfriend has been using the "victim's" car to run the drugs and money to various other stash houses.

 

[Ralf]

They didn't bust into the wrong apartment. Read the search warrant! They busted in because boyfriend was unlawfully armed felon with drugs and money in the apartment. The apartment was being used as a stash house. boyfriend has been using the "victim's" car to run the drugs and money to various other stash houses.

There had to be a better way than killing an innocent person. drug dealing should not authorize night time raids. do it during daylight. surround the house if needed and wait.

 

[mkwerx]

Everyone might want to read the application for, and the actual search warrant, that the judge granted. This "victims" apartment had been under surveillance for some time. The boyfriend, who was in bed with the "victim" had priors for drugs and unlawful weapons possession. The boyfriend has been using the "victim's" vehicle to transport narcotics in to, and out of, this apartment. This apartment was being used as a stash house for narcotics and illegal proceeds of the narcotics trafficking. With the prior unlawful weapons charges the judge granted a "no knock" warrant. It is not clear whether or not the police actually made notice prior to entry.

The boyfriend was involved with at least four other people that were being under surveillance as well. They were using multiple apartments/houses for their narcotics dealing. This was verified by video surveillance. This was not Mister Innocent, just catching a few Z's. This was a violent felon, unlawfully armed, in a place where he has been conducting his unlawful, felonious, criminal activities. Now, here's the question, was the "victim" involved in the criminal activity in that apartment? There is no indication she had knowledge of that activity. However, after reading the warrant, she would have to have been deaf, dumb and blind not to know what he was doing. Further, the boyfriend was identified in using two specific vehicle was transporting his drugs, one of which belonged to the "victim".

Even if she knew, you're saying she deserved to catch rounds while in her bed? Get out of here with that noise. She could've been in bed with Hitler, doesn't mean the actual victim - yes, she is a VICTIM in this case - deserved to die for someone else's actions. Straight up - the cops in this scenario screwed the pooch and should all face manslaughter or negligent homicide charges for her death. SHE was not shooting at them. She wasn't the target of their investigation, and her association (remember that pesky first amendment right to freely associate) with the target of their investigation doesn't absolve the police' reckless actions leading to her death. That's pure victim blaming.

Which scenario is better - three plain clothes cops in the middle of the night serving a no-knock warrant kill a woman in her bed, or 6+ cops clearly identifiable by uniforms, with marked patrol units assisting for a containment serving a warrant and loudly identifying themselves, with body cam footage to back it up, and maybe risking evidence being destroyed, maybe not. If dude comes out shooting after police clearly identify themselves, it would be pretty obvious at that point and the case could be made against him for her death.

 

[Joel54]

Even if she knew, you're saying she deserved to catch rounds while in her bed? Get out of here with that noise. She could've been in bed with Hitler, doesn't mean the actual victim - yes, she is a VICTIM in this case - deserved to die for someone else's actions. Straight up - the cops in this scenario screwed the pooch and should all face manslaughter or negligent homicide charges for her death. SHE was not shooting at them. She wasn't the target of their investigation, and her association (remember that pesky first amendment right to freely associate) with the target of their investigation doesn't absolve the police' reckless actions leading to her death. That's pure victim blaming.

Which scenario is better - three plain clothes cops in the middle of the night serving a no-knock warrant kill a woman in her bed, or 6+ cops clearly identifiable by uniforms, with marked patrol units assisting for a containment serving a warrant and loudly identifying themselves, with body cam footage to back it up, and maybe risking evidence being destroyed, maybe not. If dude comes out shooting after police clearly identify themselves, it would be pretty obvious at that point and the case could be made against him for her death.

https://htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/files/search-warrant-1589401546.pdf

 

[mkwerx]

https://htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/files/search-warrant-1589401546.pdf

Nothing in that absolves them for killing her. Says right in it they were afraid of evidence being destroyed and the guy running - bring enough cops to make a fast & loud entry and overwhelm them, and you're far safer than the three stooges going in alone - everyone involved is less likely to die when you bring enough manpower for the job. Someone kicks your door in in the middle of the night - even if you're one of those awful drug dealers - you're going to assume you're getting robbed. In fact, if you're dealing in narcotics, its probably a good bet that someone kicking your door in is there to rob and probably murder you. These highly experienced narcotics cops should know that. They also had plenty of reason to believe that Taylor, who was NOT the target of the investigation, would be there. They knew she had no criminal history. They should have taken the appropriate measures to ensure the safety of those in the house as well as themselves. They didn't. They went in like they were in some bad episode of The Shield instead of bringing enough people.

What that warrant demonstrates is the continued failure that is the war on drugs - this scenario would never have played out if not for the piss poor way the US deals with drugs, and the results demonstrate exactly why No Knock warrants are bullbubblegum - the "wrong" people die in these scenarios far too often.

 

[WillametteWill]

No knocks are BS and lead to too many bad outcomes on both ends. If banging on the door and screaming "POLICE, WE HAVE A WARRANT" makes things too tough and lets a bad guy flee, or destroy evidence sometimes, well, tough. Sometimes the bad guys "win" that round.

It also makes them hide behind their kids and women and start shooting, cowards they often are. I worked for a large department for many years where there was never a serious issue with no knock warrants. Absolutely they should be used judiciously and that is why a judge has to sign off on them. What you will NEVER hear is how many innocent lives they saved.

This is kinda like saying nobody needs and assault rifle and lumping a bad use with all the others. Not every agency has unlimited people or can easily get neighboring agencies to help out. We are extremely fortunate on the west coast but this is absolutely not the case everywhere. Keep in mind some agencies go dark between certain hours and have no one on duty so you get to wait for state police. I'm not justifying this incident in any manner and we are not privy to much information. They could have messed this one up royally and even criminally.

 

[Geardo]

There is more to this story. It touches on a vehicle registered to the deceased that was associated with both residences. There is also some info about mail going to that residence from a person of interest. There is likely a lot more to that than the deceased family's lawyer is going to say to the media.

If the boyfriend is clean, he'll get acquitted or the charges will get dropped if there was no announcement and no one was marked up. There is legal precedent for that. But that's not what the other side is saying.

No-knocks serve a purpose and are also supported by caselaw. If this was narcotics related, standing outside and yelling who you are and what you're there for is a good way to have your evidence flushed down the toilet. That's an exigent circumstance.

There is conflicting information regarding whether it was even a no-knock. PD says they knocked and announced, and were shot at upon entry. There was also only 3 officers. You don't do dynamic entries with 3 guys that are unmarked.

Don't fall for the hype man. This doesn't pass the smell test.

This brings up a good point. The war on drugs is a huge waste of time and an excuse to create the perfect police state.

If you need to legalize drugs to get rid of no-nocks that is fine by me.

(I am not pro drugs but I am pro liberty and against large government)

 

[No_Regerts]

This brings up a good point. The war on drugs is a huge waste of time and an excuse to create the perfect police state.

If you need to legalize drugs to get rid of no-nocks that is fine by me.

(I am not pro drugs but I am pro liberty and against large government)

What is the liberty issue that you see with a no-knock warrant?

 

[Geardo]

What is the liberty issue that you see with a no-knock warrant?

Well the main one is these no-nocks at the wrong house, but even no-nocks on the right house rub me wrong. Its just a warrent to arrest someone, to SEE IF THEY ARE GUILTY. If the evidence is not enough and the citizen gets off, do the police pay for their door? Or whatever else they destroyed? Not to mention the potential for violence if breaking into someones house who is paranoid and anti government and isn't just going to lie down.

Secondly, the war on drugs has fueled huge amounts of survailance, along with things like stop and frisk...that affect innocent as well as guilty.

 

[No_Regerts]

Well the main one is these no-nocks at the wrong house, but even no-nocks on the right house rub me wrong. Its just a warrent to arrest someone, to SEE IF THEY ARE GUILTY. If the evidence is not enough and the citizen gets off, do the police pay for their door? Or whatever else they destroyed? Not to mention the potential for violence if breaking into someones house who is paranoid and anti government and isn't just going to lie down.

Secondly, the war on drugs has fueled huge amounts of survailance, along with things like stop and frisk...that affect innocent as well as guilty.

You're lumping a few different things with varying levels of evidence required to execute. I don't agree with how stop and frisk is used, but it's not unconstitutional on its face. Booting doors requires a higher level of cause or exigent circumstances.

Going into someone's home is one of the most dangerous things we do, regardless of the reason. I can't speak for every agency, but we don't just go booting doors and the juice has to be worth the squeeze.

 

[Joel54]

First, this wasn't the wrong house. If you read the warrant and supporting affidavit you may change your mind about the innocence of these people. This wasn't just about drugs, this was a pretty substantial criminal enterprise involving multiple people and locations, who's suspects are all armed.
I can go along with the argument about "no knock warrants". Grab these people when they come out. But, being in an apartment building you can't merely surround the building.. that's going to endanger the other residents in the complex. Paranoid???? You want the police not to take action against who may be paranoid of the police? That doesn't make any sense. If they're not guilty why would they be paranoid of the police? I have over 30 years as a law enforcement officer and agent. Other then people with mental health issues (who are generally paranoid about everyone) I have yet to run into anyone who was paranoid of the police unless they were involved in criminal conduct.
Remember that the majority of violent crimes, and assaults, are due to the drug trade in one way or another. So I guess it's your opinion that we should just let drug carry on. have I got that correct?

 

[DB is Here]

Bless your heart!

 

[CRBMoA]

Remember that the majority of violent crimes, and assaults, are due to the drug trade in one way or another. So I guess it's your opinion that we should just let drug carry on. have I got that correct?

Easy there, Cowboy. That is not how to make friends and influence people around here.

 

[Xaevian]

The boyfriend wasn't listed in the search warrant, which by the way has unredacted federal tax & personal identifying info. His name was Kenneth Walker per the article, not Adrian Walker.

The warrant does not include any criminal history of the decedent.

 

[No_Regerts]

Easy there, Cowboy. That is not how to make friends and influence people around here.

He's got my vote!

 

[Geardo]

First, this wasn't the wrong house. If you read the warrant and supporting affidavit you may change your mind about the innocence of these people. This wasn't just about drugs, this was a pretty substantial criminal enterprise involving multiple people and locations, who's suspects are all armed.
I can go along with the argument about "no knock warrants". Grab these people when they come out. But, being in an apartment building you can't merely surround the building.. that's going to endanger the other residents in the complex. Paranoid???? You want the police not to take action against who may be paranoid of the police? That doesn't make any sense. If they're not guilty why would they be paranoid of the police? I have over 30 years as a law enforcement officer and agent. Other then people with mental health issues (who are generally paranoid about everyone) I have yet to run into anyone who was paranoid of the police unless they were involved in criminal conduct.
Remember that the majority of violent crimes, and assaults, are due to the drug trade in one way or another. So I guess it's your opinion that we should just let drug carry on. have I got that correct?

A) I am not paranoid, but someone starts kicking in my door in the middle of the night they are getting a pretty high velocity welcome, regardless of what they call out, and I consider myself fairly tame compared to some people.

B) the war on drugs has failed just as miserably as the prohibition on alcohol. I don't want drugs or drug users in my neighborhood or country, but by design, our legal system is not set up to be efficient enough to eliminate things like this. Cops, and judges will never have enough power to totally eliminate that section of society unless you make them all judge dred. Is that what we all want? 100% law and order is great, but at what cost?

I believe change like this has to come from systemic societal change, or at worst, non judicial "vigilante" or whatever you want to call it actions. Not the legal system.

Smoking is a good example. Make it illegal and I would plant tobacco seeds in my garden tomorrow just to stick it to the man, but societal pressure and education had been steadily and slowly reducing the % who smoke.

 

[Gunbuggy]

A) I am not paranoid, but someone starts kicking in my door in the middle of the night they are getting a pretty high velocity welcome, regardless of what they call out, and I consider myself fairly tame compared to some people.

 

[Geardo]

View attachment 697250

 

[No_Regerts]

A member of this forum tried something like this once. He's dead.