Other State KY EMT killed in police raid on wrong apt

[Geardo]

A member of this forum tried something like this once. He's dead.

Yeah thats pretty much a garenteed outcome.

I feel like "tried" is a harsh word to use. Did he "try" to have someone kick down his door amd kill him? Or was he just defending himself? Or did he just post Spicey memes like Duncan Lemp?

Not aware of the story.

Secondly, is that a threat? Should I relocate my dog for the next few nights

 

[Gunbuggy]

Yeah thats pretty much a garenteed outcome.

I feel like "tried" is a harsh word to use. Did he "try" to have someone kick down his door amd kill him? Or was he just defending himself? Or did he just post Spicey memes like Duncan Lemp?

Not aware of the story.

Secondly, is that a threat? Should I relocate my dog for the next few nights

Better chill dude. Bootlicker is prob connected

 

[No_Regerts]

Yeah thats pretty much a garenteed outcome.

I feel like "tried" is a harsh word to use. Did he "try" to have someone kick down his door amd kill him? Or was he just defending himself? Or did he just post Spicey memes like Duncan Lemp?

Not aware of the story.

Secondly, is that a threat? Should I relocate my dog for the next few nights

He set some houses on fire, shot at the firemen who responded, and got into it with the police. Not sure if he was wounded, but he ended it himself I believe.

I merely mention it because lots of people on this forum have made comments about killing cops. The one that tried didn't succeed.

 

[Gunbuggy]

He set some houses on fire, shot at the firemen who responded, and got into it with the police. Not sure if he was wounded, but he ended it himself I believe.

I merely mention it because lots of people on this forum have made comments about killing cops. The one that tried didn't succeed.

Seems like he might have been a little unstable.
Kinda different from what is being talked about here.

We're talking about somebody who is ready to protect their domicile, and the family members residing in it, getting a boot through the door unannounced in the middle of the night.

I also don't consider myself super paranoid but I know the first thing that's happening if I hear my door fling open at 2am

 

[No_Regerts]

Seems like he might have been a little unstable.
Kinda different from what is being talked about here.

We're talking about somebody who is ready to protest their domicile, and the family members residing in it, getting a boot through the door unannounced in the middle of the night.

I also don't consider myself super paranoid but I know the first thing that's happening if I hear my door fling open at 2am

If you're not doing anything to get anyone's attention, I wouldn't lose any sleep about it being the police. Other scumbags wearing state mandated surgical masks, on the other hand....

 

[Geardo]

He set some houses on fire, shot at the firemen who responded, and got into it with the police. Not sure if he was wounded, but he ended it himself I believe.

I merely mention it because lots of people on this forum have made comments about killing cops. The one that tried didn't succeed.

I think its pretty obvious those are two vastly different situations. That is premidiated murder for no bubbleguming reason.

As opposed to responding with force to someone kicking in your door in the middle of the night CLAIMING to be a cop. How are you supposed to know its not a criminal just yelling "police"?

And even if it is police,how are supposed to know they are not going to shoot you in bed?

I have never seen anyone here promote targeting first responders in a premidiated manner, and I am positive if they did they would be immediatly banned.

 

[Gunbuggy]

If you're not doing anything to get anyone's attention, I wouldn't lose any sleep about it being the police. Other scumbags wearing state mandated surgical masks, on the other hand....

Idk man. With all that's going on in this world it's not too far fetched...

Not trying to talk down on the boys in blue or anything, but there's story after story of "pro 2a" officers enforcing unconstitutional gun laws.

Remember, if your rights ever get infringed upon, your local PD is most likely the one who will be enforcing that infringement.

 

[Geardo]

If you're not doing anything to get anyone's attention

Thats the rub nowadays. Being associated with the wrong people or posting/ saying the wrong thing might be enough. And thats the scary part.

 

[No_Regerts]

I think its pretty obvious those are two vastly different situations. That is premidiated murder for no bubbleguming reason.

As opposed to responding with force to someone kicking in your door in the middle of the night CLAIMING to be a cop. How are you supposed to know its not a criminal just yelling "police"?

And even if it is police,how are supposed to know they are not going to shoot you in bed?

I have never seen anyone here promote targeting first responders in a premidiated manner, and I am positive if they did they would be immediatly banned.

At that point, you've got a choice to make. It will be based on the totality of the circumstances.

 

[Gunbuggy]

Thats the rub nowadays. Being associated with the wrong people or posting/ saying the wrong thing might be enough. And thats the scary part.

Fed enters the chat room

 

[Gunbuggy]

At that point, you've got a choice to make. It will be based on the totality of the circumstances.

Yeah but it's a choice that you were forced to make. A choice that you would have made in a fight or flight situation that was brought to your door.

 

[Jjmboni]

Everyone might want to read the application for, and the actual search warrant, that the judge granted. This "victims" apartment had been under surveillance for some time. The boyfriend, who was in bed with the "victim" had priors for drugs and unlawful weapons possession. The boyfriend has been using the "victim's" vehicle to transport narcotics in to, and out of, this apartment. This apartment was being used as a stash house for narcotics and illegal proceeds of the narcotics trafficking. With the prior unlawful weapons charges the judge granted a "no knock" warrant. It is not clear whether or not the police actually made notice prior to entry.

The boyfriend was involved with at least four other people that were being under surveillance as well. They were using multiple apartments/houses for their narcotics dealing. This was verified by video surveillance. This was not Mister Innocent, just catching a few Z's. This was a violent felon, unlawfully armed, in a place where he has been conducting his unlawful, felonious, criminal activities. Now, here's the question, was the "victim" involved in the criminal activity in that apartment? There is no indication she had knowledge of that activity. However, after reading the warrant, she would have to have been deaf, dumb and blind not to know what he was doing. Further, the boyfriend was identified in using two specific vehicle was transporting his drugs, one of which belonged to the "victim".

I notice you've several times read out the warrant, but you haven't read the charges... What was Walker charged with?

"Kenneth Walker, 27, was arrested and charged with assault and attempted murder on a police officer. "

That's it. No drugs, no "packages", nothing in the vehicle (which was included in the warrant), no cash to seize. So basically this warrant was complete garbage. Nothing they said was there was found. But a woman was killed, and according to you because she chose to sleep with a violent felon with priors, that's OK.

 

[No_Regerts]

I notice you've several times read out the warrant, but you haven't read the charges... What was Walker charged with?

"Kenneth Walker, 27, was arrested and charged with assault and attempted murder on a police officer. "

That's it. No drugs, no "packages", nothing in the vehicle (which was included in the warrant), no cash to seize. So basically this warrant was complete garbage. Nothing they said was there was found. But a woman was killed, and according to you because she chose to sleep with a violent felon with priors, that's OK.

It sucks, but you assume a certain amount of risk when you associate with high risk people. Normally, that's getting arrested with other people or something like that. Unfortunately for her, she ended up in the middle of a gunfight.

If they did knock and announce and the gunfight still happened, the charges make sense. If they didn't, he has a real good chance of getting acquitted.

 

[Xaevian]

@No_Regerts, you have been really professional during this thread. I half expected some of

With some of the comments in here.
But you're more like


Meanwhile, back in Kentucky...

 

[No_Regerts]

@No_Regerts, you have been really professional during this thread. I half expected some of

With some of the comments in here.
But you're more like


Meanwhile, back in Kentucky...

If I didn't have patience, I shouldn't be in my line of work. I really dislike people that don't have the time to help someone understand why the worst day of their life is occurring and its not the end of the world.

 

[mkwerx]

I'm on board with Taco RE: the war on drugs - its a failure, it was doomed to fail just like prohibition of booze, and all it has done is cause the expansion of government surveillance, expand the black market, and help keep certain politicians in power while putting a lot of people in the ground who may or may not have deserved their fate. I also agree with Taco that the way to quell the drug problem (you will never, ever eliminate it) is thru societal pressure, education, and the legalization of drugs with quality standards put in place. I'd also be down with a consumption tax on all recreational drugs that would go to either to fund rehab programs to help people recover from addiction.

I don't do drugs, never have done drugs, and grew up in a family that was ravaged by substance abuse. Drugs are always available when someone needs a fix. They're not hard to get by any stretch, despite all the state, local, and federal laws against them from manufacture to transport to the sale and possession. Prohibition does not work. It doesn't work with booze, doesn't work with narcotics, doesn't work with guns, or anything else. Wasting tax payer money on continuing the path we've been on since the 1930s only furthers to keep the status quo. CIA makes a lot of money on drugs - which could be a big reason they won't be legalized any time soon - the US government is making money keeping drugs illegal. Civil asset forfeiture is also popular with many agencies, and you don't even have to be engaged in actual criminal activity in some jurisdictions to fall victim to it. Travelling with a big wad of cash in your pocket and get stopped and that cash discovered, they can claim you're trafficking in narcotics without even finding so much as a Tylenol on you and take your car, cash, and you won't get it back - and if you do its after you've spent even more money on a lawyer.

My stance on no knocks is that the bad outweighs the good - and government agencies don't have civil liberties, individual agents do, but not agencies. The risk to individual freedoms from either government negligence, or malfeasance is too much in my opinion - either because they hit the wrong house, or they rely on bad information, or for the simple fact that the risk of injury and death to innocents is too high. Doesn't matter if those persons associate with violent felons if they're not violent felons themselves.

I don't mind hindering government power when the exercise of that power puts tangible risk to someone's life, the government agents and agencies can adapt. Their job might be a bit harder, but again, cops sign up knowing that they're taking on a dangerous job. It is incumbent on them to craft policies and procedures to ensure the rights of all are respected, and that the safety of *all* involved parties is maintained. Not just the cops. That's why I don't like no knocks and would love to see a nation wide ban on their use. Bring more guys, build a better mouse trap if you have to, and make sure your intel is rock solid before you boot doors and start pointing guns at civilians. I don't want to see cops shot dead unnecessarily, just like I don't want to see innocent people gunned down by the police unnecessarily.

And since the tech is becoming smaller, better and cheaper, every cop needs a camera. I don't care if its detectives, uniforms, or desk jockeys, every cop needs a camera with audio, and every encounter they have with a citizen and every operation they take on should be recorded, period. They will help exonerate the falsely accused, and damn the liars and crooks on both sides of the badge.

 

[Geardo]

I'm on board with Taco RE: the war on drugs - its a failure, it was doomed to fail just like prohibition of booze, and all it has done is cause the expansion of government surveillance, expand the black market, and help keep certain politicians in power while putting a lot of people in the ground who may or may not have deserved their fate. I also agree with Taco that the way to quell the drug problem (you will never, ever eliminate it) is thru societal pressure, education, and the legalization of drugs with quality standards put in place. I'd also be down with a consumption tax on all recreational drugs that would go to either to fund rehab programs to help people recover from addiction.

I don't do drugs, never have done drugs, and grew up in a family that was ravaged by substance abuse. Drugs are always available when someone needs a fix. They're not hard to get by any stretch, despite all the state, local, and federal laws against them from manufacture to transport to the sale and possession. Prohibition does not work. It doesn't work with booze, doesn't work with narcotics, doesn't work with guns, or anything else. Wasting tax payer money on continuing the path we've been on since the 1930s only furthers to keep the status quo. CIA makes a lot of money on drugs - which could be a big reason they won't be legalized any time soon - the US government is making money keeping drugs illegal. Civil asset forfeiture is also popular with many agencies, and you don't even have to be engaged in actual criminal activity in some jurisdictions to fall victim to it. Travelling with a big wad of cash in your pocket and get stopped and that cash discovered, they can claim you're trafficking in narcotics without even finding so much as a Tylenol on you and take your car, cash, and you won't get it back - and if you do its after you've spent even more money on a lawyer.

My stance on no knocks is that the bad outweighs the good - and government agencies don't have civil liberties, individual agents do, but not agencies. The risk to individual freedoms from either government negligence, or malfeasance is too much in my opinion - either because they hit the wrong house, or they rely on bad information, or for the simple fact that the risk of injury and death to innocents is too high. Doesn't matter if those persons associate with violent felons if they're not violent felons themselves.

I don't mind hindering government power when the exercise of that power puts tangible risk to someone's life, the government agents and agencies can adapt. Their job might be a bit harder, but again, cops sign up knowing that they're taking on a dangerous job. It is incumbent on them to craft policies and procedures to ensure the rights of all are respected, and that the safety of *all* involved parties is maintained. Not just the cops. That's why I don't like no knocks and would love to see a nation wide ban on their use. Bring more guys, build a better mouse trap if you have to, and make sure your intel is rock solid before you boot doors and start pointing guns at civilians. I don't want to see cops shot dead unnecessarily, just like I don't want to see innocent people gunned down by the police unnecessarily.

And since the tech is becoming smaller, better and cheaper, every cop needs a camera. I don't care if its detectives, uniforms, or desk jockeys, every cop needs a camera with audio, and every encounter they have with a citizen and every operation they take on should be recorded, period. They will help exonerate the falsely accused, and damn the liars and crooks on both sides of the badge.

I appreciate people who can say what I am thinking so eloquently, as opposed to just screaming reee and posting dank memes like I do.

Thanks!

 

[Gunbuggy]

I appreciate people who can say what I am thinking so eloquently, as opposed to just screaming reee and posting dank memes like I do.

Thanks!

Your memes are weak bro!

 

[No_Regerts]

I'm on board with Taco RE: the war on drugs - its a failure, it was doomed to fail just like prohibition of booze, and all it has done is cause the expansion of government surveillance, expand the black market, and help keep certain politicians in power while putting a lot of people in the ground who may or may not have deserved their fate. I also agree with Taco that the way to quell the drug problem (you will never, ever eliminate it) is thru societal pressure, education, and the legalization of drugs with quality standards put in place. I'd also be down with a consumption tax on all recreational drugs that would go to either to fund rehab programs to help people recover from addiction.

I don't do drugs, never have done drugs, and grew up in a family that was ravaged by substance abuse. Drugs are always available when someone needs a fix. They're not hard to get by any stretch, despite all the state, local, and federal laws against them from manufacture to transport to the sale and possession. Prohibition does not work. It doesn't work with booze, doesn't work with narcotics, doesn't work with guns, or anything else. Wasting tax payer money on continuing the path we've been on since the 1930s only furthers to keep the status quo. CIA makes a lot of money on drugs - which could be a big reason they won't be legalized any time soon - the US government is making money keeping drugs illegal. Civil asset forfeiture is also popular with many agencies, and you don't even have to be engaged in actual criminal activity in some jurisdictions to fall victim to it. Travelling with a big wad of cash in your pocket and get stopped and that cash discovered, they can claim you're trafficking in narcotics without even finding so much as a Tylenol on you and take your car, cash, and you won't get it back - and if you do its after you've spent even more money on a lawyer.

My stance on no knocks is that the bad outweighs the good - and government agencies don't have civil liberties, individual agents do, but not agencies. The risk to individual freedoms from either government negligence, or malfeasance is too much in my opinion - either because they hit the wrong house, or they rely on bad information, or for the simple fact that the risk of injury and death to innocents is too high. Doesn't matter if those persons associate with violent felons if they're not violent felons themselves.

I don't mind hindering government power when the exercise of that power puts tangible risk to someone's life, the government agents and agencies can adapt. Their job might be a bit harder, but again, cops sign up knowing that they're taking on a dangerous job. It is incumbent on them to craft policies and procedures to ensure the rights of all are respected, and that the safety of *all* involved parties is maintained. Not just the cops. That's why I don't like no knocks and would love to see a nation wide ban on their use. Bring more guys, build a better mouse trap if you have to, and make sure your intel is rock solid before you boot doors and start pointing guns at civilians. I don't want to see cops shot dead unnecessarily, just like I don't want to see innocent people gunned down by the police unnecessarily.

And since the tech is becoming smaller, better and cheaper, every cop needs a camera. I don't care if its detectives, uniforms, or desk jockeys, every cop needs a camera with audio, and every encounter they have with a citizen and every operation they take on should be recorded, period. They will help exonerate the falsely accused, and damn the liars and crooks on both sides of the badge.

Why do innocent deaths from police activity make the news? Because they hardly ever happen. More people die of medical malpractice in a day than LE will kill in a year (which the vast majority are justified).

Why do ODs, gutted mules, broken families, disease, theft, and murder not make the news? Because its become normal. I find it to be pretty defeatist to suggest we give up and rely on the things you mention which have the POOREST success rate of any intervention for any problem. Drug treatment does not work because no one seeks it.....unless they get in trouble.

Thats right, the number 1 way to expose people to treatment is to arrest them, convict them, and order them to go to treatment. I could give you the names of 1200 people in my county going to treatment because they were ordered to.

Its not as simple as people make it out to be.

 

[mkwerx]

Why do innocent deaths from police activity make the news? Because they hardly ever happen. More people die of medical malpractice in a day than LE will kill in a year (which the vast majority are justified).

Why do ODs, gutted mules, broken families, disease, theft, and murder not make the news? Because its become normal. I find it to be pretty defeatist to suggest we give up and rely on the things you mention which have the POOREST success rate of any intervention for any problem. Drug treatment does not work because no one seeks it.....unless they get in trouble.

Thats right, the number 1 way to expose people to treatment is to arrest them, convict them, and order them to go to treatment. I could give you the names of 1200 people in my county going to treatment because they were ordered to.

Its not as simple as people make it out to be.

You have 1200 people in the county going to court ordered treatment, but how many don't go to court ordered treatment? Excuse the tired old trope - but treat the stuff like booze. Both are chemicals that negatively effect one's judgement, reflexes, and if addicted can destroy your life and the lives of others. Booze was prohibited - it created a big black market, lead to some horrific gang violence, and was ultimately repealed. But the criminalization of cannibis and opioum for recreational use continued, along with other hard drugs. Alcohol and tobacco cause more disease and deaths than any other substances Americans are ingesting aside from our piss poor diets.

The people who are getting high are the ultimate problem - and they're going to continue to get high and continue to get their hands on stuff, and keeping the junk illegal just perpetuates the black market and the violence. Legalize the stuff, lump it in with tobacco and booze from a regulatory standpoint, and cut off the cartels and gangs at the knees. Product safety controls would become a thing that doesn't exist right now.

Junkies commit crimes to get their next fix - they can still be arrested for those crimes. The high level dealers are rarely if ever the strung out junkies - they know better. Their biggest crimes are trafficking in controlled substances and perpetuating violence to maintain their power. The junkies are the biggest drain on society. They can still be ordered into treatment if they're convicted of crimes related to their addiction - like the crimes of theft, fraud, and violence.

I won't argue that the reason we hear about police killing innocents is because it doesn't happen with regularity - that's a good thing. But the cops should never kill an innocent in their pursuit of a "bad" actor, and there are things like eliminating no knock warrants that can be done to shrink the already small number closer to zero. Most cops are fairly intelligent sorts and they find ways to work within the framework of the law - if we change that framework eliminate no knock raids, you'll adapt and come up with effective techniques to get the bad actors. If we legalize and regulate recreational drugs, as is happening at the state level with cannabis, you're going to see the black market dealers shrink as they're replaced by the shiney retail establishments. If Phillip Morris could grow opium poppies in Virginia and sell it as a legal product, I'm sure they would, and people if given the choice to buy it legally and know the product was safe, and not ground up dry wall mixed with Ajax or something - they would.

You'll never eliminate the element of society that wants to get high for fun, or those self medicating but just like smoking, we can steer the ship using societal pressure and stigmatize it while allowing it. Thats the libertarian in me coming out. Doing what we've been doing for 90 years that hasn't worked and won't work just because its what is easy is not going to get us anywhere.