Is 9MM good enough to bet your life on?

[American123]

Not really cause SRT runs .45 in the Marines. While everyone else runs 9mm. And you're correct. The 5.56 in their primary but when that goes down they rely on their sidearm which is 9mm. It's still self defense. Whether it's primary or secondary.

Good points.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

...but I've never been attacked by angry gelatin. Stay Puff marshmallows perhaps, but never jello.

Must have yet to have a colonoscopy.

 

[Ops]

aim for the throat area kills them everytime, but one to the eye socket is good too

 

[Howard1955]

Does Caliber Even Matter?

I’m planning on doing a series of tests to explore the question of whether and/or how much caliber matters when choosing a firearm, but until then, I wanted to take a moment to explore the bi…

shootingthebull.net

 

[Member 18201]

One more time-

- although I doubt that more than 5 people will read it in its entirety.

https://webzoom.freewebs.com/balisticaterminal/Physiological_effects_handgun_bullets_Newgard.pdf

 

[bzltyr]

Google Drive: Sign-in

Access Google Drive with a Google account (for personal use) or Google Workspace account (for business use).

drive.google.com

In the mid 80s there was a FBI shooting in Miami. The bad guy took a round of 9MM Silvertip and went on to kill three agents and wound 5 more IIRC. This led to a Wound Ballistics Workshop at FBI Academy, Quantico. Col Martin Fackler MD set it up and sent me a copy of he minutes (above). Thought yawl would like to read them.

Placement,placement, placement.

 

[Pandaz3]

I have ventured forth with a mere 22 Magnum or a 380 and yet felt a warm fuzzy just to have something. I did move up the ladder to 9MM and felt well armed, but a 45 made me more armed, but capacity limited. I have settle on the cozy 40 S&W, it is my favorite …. Well now and then a 357 Sig is okay.

 

[Alexx1401]

Given the history (I know your into that ) of poor reliability in .22 ammo (which was your point, I think), if one chooses to carry (I'm all about personal choice) the new Glock .22, one may wish to put in extra practice on malfunction clearance drills.

I've given some thought to buying a .22lr for the wife to use for EDC. Her hands just won't let her rack the .380 that I bought for her, making it a one shot pistol. Other handguns have proven to be left at home because they are too heavy for her to carry. So I was looking at a tupperware revolver in .22lr. Now I don't think I will be doing that since her cognitive impairment seems to be increasing... but it was a thought there for awhile.

Even a .22 is far better than nothing of course. Wife for many years carried a compact SR22. With good ammo I have never seen it fail when clean. Like all of them after some range time it will start to fail but, figured if she needs it the first mag full is going to work. Would of course LOVE her to use something else but I take what I can get. She has of late gone back to her Tomcat .32, which I of course like better. The LCPII I carry she bought, after I told her not to. In the shop trigger felt so nice. Problem is she can just barely rack it and its a real struggle. She fired it one time and it was too much for her, as I knew it would be. Her little old, Kel-Tec .32 I have kept just in case she ever wants that to go back to. It is so light it's easy to forget, she can easily rack that and shoot it. She just hates that loooonnnggg trigger pull. It's all a trade off sadly.

 

[Pandaz3]

One more time-

- although I doubt that more than 5 people will read it in its entirety.

https://webzoom.freewebs.com/balisticaterminal/Physiological_effects_handgun_bullets_Newgard.pdf

That is five full pages, I think that is too much for a homework assignment to be done overnight. Wait it's the weekend! You do know that is a historical document written twenty-seven years ago

 

[WillametteWill]

Okay, I'll be one of the five. Good read. Some of the data on survivability is a little dated (heart wound data is prior to 1971...trauma care has changed just a little). A conclusion statement of, "Instantaneous incapacitation is not possible with non central nervous system wounds and does not always occur with (CNS) wounds." We know this statement to not be true as we have seen many instant incapacitations with many non-cns wounds. I agree they are not consistent but you cannot say it is not possible. Seen dozens of videos where is does. Many other variables.

Didn't notice until the end the author is from my old department. Don't recall ever meeting him though.

 

[leadcounsel]

Placement,placement, placement.

Houses and ballistics : Location location location!

 

[Hummer]

I can prove we have instantaneous incapacitation ! ! ! Turn on ETV and watch the democraps discuss how they are going to care for us and our guns and see how many votes the get Next November. Bet it will be 46% of the country votes for them.

In the town I came from years ago there were two democrats having a arguement and he up and slaps her. She pulls a 22 out and lets him hold all six at about 3 feet. They argued another 30 minutes and the dude walks 1 1/2 miles to hospital.

One of our beat walkers walked into a pool room and when his eyes got used to the low light he sees an extended arm holding a Gov't Model 45 and he starts to look at where it is pointing and it goes off and shoots a guy about 15 feet away in the mouth. The guy that got hit got knocked back up against the bar and spit out two teeth and the 230 gr. fmj round.

Had another beat guy get shot with a 22 and a ballpoint pen in his left shirt pocket stopped it cold.

I know another that was in a bar and they were harassing this LGBT type and he pulls a 25 auto and shoots guy I know in the mouth. I asked him what he did then and he said he left and hid in the woods till he left the area and he too went home. . He still has the round you can feel under the skin on the right side of his neck.

Had another guy shoot a burglar with his 22. Burglar picks up homeowners son's ball bat and kills the shooter with it and leaves.

Moral to this story increase your success rate odds and multiplication 2X22=44

 

[Andy54Hawken]

One other thought here...

No matter the gun or caliber...you have to be willing to shoot...
And if you survive , learn to live with the consequences of shooting.

To be honest here , these caliber discussions and back and forth over what is best or should or not should be not be used...gets a little old for me at least.

Having survived more than a few firefights and having seen just what bullets from various types of guns can actually do to the human body...has me more than convinced that being shot , with any caliber , is not on my to do list.

Learn the firearm of your choice...
Develop the skill to use it , like second nature...
Do your best to avoid having to use it...
And if you do have to shoot...shoot well and live with no remorse over your actions.
Andy

 

[USMC-03]

One other thought here...

No matter the gun or caliber...you have to be willing to shoot...
And if you survive , learn to live with the consequences of shooting.

This piece of wisdom is something that I truly wish many more people understood. I think then perhaps we would have greater empathy for our fellow citizens on an individual basis and be more willing to embrace a live and let live philosophy instead of the dangerous ideologies that are driving current discourse.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

One other thought here...

No matter the gun or caliber...you have to be willing to shoot...
And if you survive , learn to live with the consequences of shooting.

To be honest here , these caliber discussions and back and forth over what is best or should or not should be not be used...gets a little old for me at least.

Having survived more than a few firefights and having seen just what bullets from various types of guns can actually do to the human body...has me more than convinced that being shot , with any caliber , is not on my to do list.

Learn the firearm of your choice...
Develop the skill to use it , like second nature...
Do your best to avoid having to use it...
And if you do have to shoot...shoot well and live with no remorse over your actions.
Andy

I for one, don't want to get shot either. Just the act of pulling your gun and aiming at a threat is fairly troubling. Even if it turns out best case scenario. That is far more life changing than people think.. While I have survived some incidents I wish I could forget, but do not regret my actions, they weigh heavy on me. Not remorse or regret, but a heaviness of a decision that carries great weight.

You know, I would be happy to never need a gun again for defense. But I am alive and here so who knows. I mean Oregon has had far lower numbers of times I have had to use a gun than a state I spent a lot of younger years. Never needed to pull one in NC my home state.

I believe if you need to, you may fight successfully for your life with a part of a couch. But the best weapon is one you can use effectively. But it is not a cavalier thing. I also firmly believe you don't know what you will do till the smoke clears, the dust settles and you review in your head what happened.

 

[RVTECH]

Just the act of pulling your gun and aiming at a threat is fairly troubling. Even if it turns out best case scenario. That is far more life changing than people think..

This is more true than most will ever know - and I have my own experience of last year to confirm.

I FIRMLY believe there was a 'Higher Power' in play when for the FIRST TIME I did not have a gun in my hand when responding to a sound in my house - and this time I had an intruder.

IF I did I guarantee I would be telling a different story as I would not have hesitated - and the intruder won the lottery that night.

Seconds later I had my gun in hand and, with training taking over, I cleared my house and made my way outside (training again) to find a position of cover and concealment with movement opportunity as opposed to being cornered in my house somewhere. I do NOT buy off on the often espoused 'safe room' idea - but then I have a a lot of room outside and places to go - and conceal - if necessary.

I STILL maintain I am GLAD I did not take this persons life that night - however I cannot say this will be the case if I have to experience it again....

 

[DunRanull]

It is, and I have. Still here.

 

[DunRanull]

I for one, don't want to get shot either. Just the act of pulling your gun and aiming at a threat is fairly troubling. Even if it turns out best case scenario. That is far more life changing than people think.. While I have survived some incidents I wish I could forget,

You know, I would be happy to never need a gun again for defense. But I am alive and here so who knows. I mean Oregon has had far lower numbers of times I have had to use a gun than a state I spent a lot of younger years. Never needed to pull one in NC my home state.

I believe if you need to, you may fight successfully for your life with a part of a couch. But the best weapon is one you can use effectively. But it is not a cavalier thing. I also firmly believe you don't know what you will do till the smoke clears, the dust settles and you review in your head what happened.

Wombat- Truly spoken, by a man who has seen the elephant and lived to tell about it... especially>>> "... I wish I could forget, but do not regret my actions, they weigh heavy on me. Not remorse or regret, but a heaviness of a decision that carries great weight". and... " That is far more life changing than people think."

 

[ZigZagZeke]

There's no substitute for accuracy.

 

[albin25]

Man alive... this stuff can get nutty ;
- 22 ok or should everyone get a howitzer?
- Baseball or Cricket bat?
- 410 or Punt-gun?
- Golf club or cane?
- Ballpeen or claw hammer?
- pistol or rifle?
- Cleaver or Chef's knife?
- Tooth or Nail?
- Fists or Feet?
- What if or Whatever?
- dry rub or marinade?





(oops! That last one shoulda been in the ribs or brisket thread)