Is 9MM good enough to bet your life on?

[Hummer]

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In the mid 80s there was a FBI shooting in Miami. The bad guy took a round of 9MM Silvertip and went on to kill three agents and wound 5 more IIRC. This led to a Wound Ballistics Workshop at FBI Academy, Quantico. Col Martin Fackler MD set it up and sent me a copy of he minutes (above). Thought yawl would like to read them.

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[Flymph]

 

[arakboss]

Lot's of people will argue that bullet technology has allowed the 9mm round to be more effective than it was back then. I would argue that the same improved bullet technology is being applied to all calibers including 40 S&W. I think the move to 9mm in LEO agencies was cost related and to help out smaller stature shooters who make up a much greater part of the agencies these days. I am a 40 S&W fan.

 

[Hummer]

Yes 9MM has got better with the 146 gr rounds that I use. I have a game warden friend here who has been shot with a 9MM and a 45 and he said the 45 hurt a whole lot more.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Speaking only for myself...
In self defense all bets are off...no matter the caliber or firearm used.
I wouldn't say any firearm or caliber is good enough...at least as far as betting my life on it.

Bad , odd , even down right strange things happen when one shoots and hits another person.
While studies are a excellent way to review data and such...And worthwhile to be used to make a involved decision...
In my experience , you cannot count on things to go as planned or as the study shows when involved in a shooting.

Self defense is far more that just what gun and caliber...use what you shoot and handle the best with.
What that is , is a matter for each individual to decide...What firearm and caliber combination that I shoot and handle well , can be vastly different than the ones that someone else does.

Of course the situation is different if one is member of law enforcement or the military...
As one will have to conform to their standards ...so what one might shoot and handle effectively individually may be different here as well.
Here one is hampered by the needs , polices , situations / circumstances , standards , etc...that are created by others and having them thrust upon another person.

Bullet design and shot placement plays a lot into just how effective a caliber is self defense.
It is also important to remember that no matter how good the bullet design and caliber ...bullets can do weird things when they hit flesh.
This along with the desire to live and any chemical enhancement , which the other person may be on , makes my wanting to bet on any caliber , iffy at best.
Andy

 

[Hummer]

Thus I came up with THE GREAT TRUTHS

1. Never tug on Superman's Cape
2.Never take a knife to a gunfight.
3. NEVER EVER TAKE A HANDGUN TO A RIFLE MATCH.

 

[SUPER X]

9mm is a excellent option if you dont have your .45 available

 

[Hummer]

I remember there was a thing on TV back in 90s where there was a Senate hearing where John McCain was involved and this woman testified that she was picked up by German Troops in WW2, taken with hundreds of others to a area, told to strip and this German Officers shot her three times with a 9MM and she finally figured out she was supposed to fall down and she dropped into the pit with hundreds of others and she said there were a number of folks also not dead.
At the end of the day the Germans had quit shooting the Jews and left. She crawled out from under bodies, went and found her clothes in the pile, got dressed and left and she survived.

 

[oremike]

9mm is a excellent option if you dont have your .45 available

And 40 works if you can't pick one or the other.

 

[Hummer]

So will a knife. Met a guy whose grandfather was in Finland when the Russians rolled in and there wasn't enough rifles to arm everyone so the gov't issued them Finnish Fisherman's knives (long thin blades slightly curved upwards) and told to go get a rifle. Same thing we see sold now with fishing supplies, very sharp.

They got up in trees in the woods and when a Russian patrols walked under they waited for the rear guard to come and they dropped down on him and slashed his throat as the went by. Quickly regained their footing, picked up their Mosin Nagants, got their ammo and took off and left the Russian bleeding to death.

Just does to show you where there is a will there is a way.

 

[Certaindeaf]

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In the mid 80s there was a FBI shooting in Miami. The bad guy took a round of 9MM Silvertip and went on to kill three agents and wound 5 more IIRC. This led to a Wound Ballistics Workshop at FBI Academy, Quantico. Col Martin Fackler MD set it up and sent me a copy of he minutes (above). Thought yawl would like to read them.

Is this like breaking news? I prolly should click on this one.

 

[Hummer]

Well if you haven't read it guess it could be. I found my copy and sent it the Firearms and Toolmarks Examiners Assn and they scanned it and it on their website about 18 months so it was not widely published since 1987.

 

[fredball]

I thought this is why the fbi came out with the 10mm WTF

 

[Hummer]

Yep,that is what started it.

 

[slimmer13]

I heard that you can kill a grizzly with a .22.

 

[Geardo]

No, you obviously need a .410

 

[belshawelk]

Better than nothing, but I carry 10mm. 9 just doesnt have enough energy in bad situations. But put one in the computer and its all over with a .22 .

 

[Geardo]

But put one in the computer and its all over with a .22 .

"Shoot em in the eye, I don't care which one"

 

[BillM]

I heard that you can kill a grizzly with a .22.

Yup. Bella Twin, world record Grizzly, 1953. Cooey single shot 22.

 

[mortar maggot]

At work I have seen the after effects of many people who had been shot.

I will say shot placement is the absolute key. Many were killed with .22LR to the head, heart, or major artery. Centerfield rifles were the end all.

BTW yes I carry a 9mm, I figure more shots to get the a CNS shot.