If police enter your home...illegally? What would you do?

[Joshg]

not to flame but i dont really understand your point.

My point being that this guy is gonna get hit with anything from "terrorism" to tax evasion just so something sticks. Then they wrap it up in a neat little box and play the cops as heroes for "saving" this guys kids. My thoughts were a little jumbled this morning but I think they'll hit him with whatever sticks.

 

[Kevinkris]

i cant argue with that. too many people who think the police have the right to do things like this.

 

[Redcap]

Quite simply, I will kill them. I don't care if I die in the process, I will take multiple worthless thugs of the state with me if they decide to bubblegum with me and my home.

 

[Stomper]

Ok, a few of you probably know that I am ALL ABOUT our Constitutional rights and the sovereignty of our "personage", and private property... but after watching that video, I don't understand why the two "adults" wouldn't demonstrate to the police that there was no domestic danger present, other than they sounded like a couple of "low information" types to me in the audio. If the couple was having a "boisterous" argument (that was loud enough for the neighbors to hear it causing them to make a call) I would contend that the couple knew EXACTLY why the police were at their front door.

What the video doesn't show (and we don't really know) is, did the police stand outside and listen to what was going on unbeknownst to the couple before they made their presence known? In my 3-yr. tenure in LE, that was how we were trained to handle a domestic call... listen (if possible) to get a feel for the situation, then knock on the door, diffuse/defend.

The police had a duty to investigate a report of possible domestic violence (one of the most potentially dangerous categories of incidents to respond to), and they had reasonable suspicion/probable cause to not be "turned away". How were they supossed to know those were the only two adults in the house? Maybe the couple was into keeping an unwilling sex-slave in the house and had a "containment" issue... it happens, similar has been all over the news periodically for years.

If the police had walked away without verifying everything was at least (semi) copestetic and something horrific wasn't inside, how many of you would be going on about how "useless" LEO's are, and just wanted to get to the donut shop ASAP?

I can speak to this type of situation with authority, because about 9-yrs. ago me and the wife were having a verbal argument (about my ex-wife's BS no less... LOL) and apparently the neighbors could hear my "angry Drill Sgt." voice booming away and called the police. There was absolutely no physical violence (or threat of it), and I had no personal problem demonstrating to the responding officers' satisfaction that although we were quite angry with each other, violence was not an equation. The contact ended peacfully, and I wasn't compelled to find a hotel room for the evening.

There are Constitutional rights, and then there are good manners. Practicing good manners (even to the police) goes a long way towards "lubricating" societal interactions with all types, on all levels.

Just sayin'.

 

[unklekippy]

Ok, a few of you probably know that I am ALL ABOUT our Constitutional rights and the sovereignty of our "personage", and private property... but after watching that video, I don't understand why the two "adults" wouldn't demonstrate to the police that there was no domestic danger present, other than they sounded like a couple of "low information" types to me in the audio. If the couple was having a "boisterous" argument (that was loud enough for the neighbors to hear it causing them to make a call) I would contend that the couple knew EXACTLY why the police were at their front door.

What the video doesn't show (and we don't really know) is, did the police stand outside and listen to what was going on unbeknownst to the couple before they made their presence known? In my 3-yr. tenure in LE, that was how we were trained to handle a domestic call... listen (if possible) to get a feel for the situation, then knock on the door, diffuse/defend.

The police had a duty to investigate a report of possible domestic violence (one of the most potentially dangerous categories of incidents to respond to), and they had reasonable suspicion/probable cause to not be "turned away". How were they supossed to know those were the only two adults in the house? Maybe the couple was into keeping an unwilling sex-slave in the house and had a "containment" issue... it happens, similar has been all over the news periodically for years.

If the police had walked away without verifying everything was at least (semi) copestetic and something horrific wasn't inside, how many of you would be going on about how "useless" LEO's are, and just wanted to get to the donut shop ASAP?

I can speak to this type of situation with authority, because about 9-yrs. ago me and the wife were having a verbal argument (about my ex-wife's BS no less... LOL) and apparently the neighbors could hear my "angry Drill Sgt." voice booming away and called the police. There was absolutely no physical violence (or threat of it), and I had no personal problem demonstrating to the responding officers' satisfaction that although we were quite angry with each other, violence was not an equation. The contact ended peacfully, and I wasn't compelled to find a hotel room for the evening.

There are Constitutional rights, and then there are good manners. Practicing good manners (even to the police) goes a long way towards "lubricating" societal interactions with all types, on all levels.

Just sayin'.

So, to retain your rights, you must "demonstrate" to police officers satisfaction that nothing is wrong or else they get to illegally enter your home? Angry citizens at a donut shop(?) do not override my rights. If I am misunderstanding, I apologize. If you are advocating the police' "ability" to illegally enter your property because of a raised voice, you owe the apology for spreading the idea that our rights can be suspended until the police are "satisfied".

 

[Redcap]

So, to retain your rights, you must "demonstrate" to police officers satisfaction that nothing is wrong or else they get to illegally enter your home? Angry citizens at a donut shop(?) do not override my rights. If I am misunderstanding, I apologize. If you are advocating the police' "ability" to illegally enter your property because of a raised voice, you owe the apology for spreading the idea that our rights can be suspended until the police are "satisfied".

N.W.A. said it best.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

The big question is how to determine if it really is the police entering your home. With criminals committing home invasions while identifying themselves as police, the homeowner is in a tough spot trying to sort it out in "combat." Perhaps we need a thread about that subject alone!

Whatever happened to the idea of coming to the door and calmly identifying yourself as the police in a conversational voice, then inquiring whether this is the correct address, and whether or not the people you are looking for live there? Houses have doorbells for a reason. Constantly screaming "Police!" at the top of your lungs, while kicking in the door, and pointing loaded weapons provides little opportunity for communications to correct mistakes or assess the situation with input from the occupant of the premises. A lot of innocent people would be alive today if the police attempted to actually communicate in the above situations.

 

[Kevinkris]

Ok, a few of you probably know that I am ALL ABOUT our Constitutional rights and the sovereignty of our "personage", and private property... but after watching that video, I don't understand why the two "adults" wouldn't demonstrate to the police that there was no domestic danger present, other than they sounded like a couple of "low information" types to me in the audio. If the couple was having a "boisterous" argument (that was loud enough for the neighbors to hear it causing them to make a call) I would contend that the couple knew EXACTLY why the police were at their front door.

What the video doesn't show (and we don't really know) is, did the police stand outside and listen to what was going on unbeknownst to the couple before they made their presence known? In my 3-yr. tenure in LE, that was how we were trained to handle a domestic call... listen (if possible) to get a feel for the situation, then knock on the door, diffuse/defend.

The police had a duty to investigate a report of possible domestic violence (one of the most potentially dangerous categories of incidents to respond to), and they had reasonable suspicion/probable cause to not be "turned away". How were they supossed to know those were the only two adults in the house? Maybe the couple was into keeping an unwilling sex-slave in the house and had a "containment" issue... it happens, similar has been all over the news periodically for years.

If the police had walked away without verifying everything was at least (semi) copestetic and something horrific wasn't inside, how many of you would be going on about how "useless" LEO's are, and just wanted to get to the donut shop ASAP?

I can speak to this type of situation with authority, because about 9-yrs. ago me and the wife were having a verbal argument (about my ex-wife's BS no less... LOL) and apparently the neighbors could hear my "angry Drill Sgt." voice booming away and called the police. There was absolutely no physical violence (or threat of it), and I had no personal problem demonstrating to the responding officers' satisfaction that although we were quite angry with each other, violence was not an equation. The contact ended peacfully, and I wasn't compelled to find a hotel room for the evening.

There are Constitutional rights, and then there are good manners. Practicing good manners (even to the police) goes a long way towards "lubricating" societal interactions with all types, on all levels.

Just sayin'.

definitely a fair point. sure there may not have been any direct probable cause but their belligerence could easily be considered to be suspicious. also having witnessed domestic violence and seen the victim turn help away while being highly defensive of the dirt bag, the cops do have to ask them to present themselves for conversation at least. the way they refused was uncalled for unless there was something that happened before the tape was rolling.

my biggest concern is that they were so adamant about entering the home on an anonymous call when in this case seems to have been just a very loud argument, though bad for a relationship its very common. they should have stepped outside to talk to them, the cops wouldnt have come in the house the way they did had they done that. i personally have nothing against the cops entering my home on request, generally speaking but they do need to have a reason. sadly there are times when someone is being kept against their will and we do need to be able to help people in the times that is happening but we cant just give up our right to refuse entry.

ive only ever had one cop act disrespectfully for no reason and i refuse to provide anything past my name for id when ive been stopped (aside from traffic stops). i stay respectful and tell them i am aware of my rights and my intentions to practice them, i stay respectful and have been treated the same way every time. the only cop that was a dick had stopped me several times on the street trying to catch me doing something wrong, never knew why he would do that but after i reported it a couple times with documentation i kept, it stopped. could have been because i frequented the music store on 10th ave by the library in hillsboro but i was there for the music. luckily i never had my id on me, otherwise i think me may have tried to come to my home, never gave him my name either because the very first time i was stopped by him he approached live weapon aimed, while i was carrying what felt like a ton of groceries. he said because it was reported someone was drawing pot leaves in the filth of a dirty car a couple blocks away, just dont trust people who threaten my life for no reason.

was even stopped a couple nights ago while i was walking, answered a couple questions had a short unrelated conversion and went our separate ways. there are times when they cross the line and its probably as common as they are reported but not all of the reported cases are fair to the cops.

they didnt have to taze the person filming though.

 

[chariot13]

So, these doors that swing out, were are the hinges? If they are on the outside who needs to kick anything in?

You can recess the hinges into the door jam so they're not visible on the door, you can also inlay the hinges behind the molding & trim. There are numerous ways to fortify/conceal your entry & exit ways. Many are not taught to homebuilders on purpose because the government likes people having doors that swing in for residential buildings for obvious reasons. They do not care that this makes it easier for criminals to obtain forced entry into your home, as long as their henchmen have easy access. So that old saying about 'those that seek security in place of liberty deserve neither', is true. When you're dealing with the government to provide security, the end result always leaves you with less liberty & less security. They do not care & they are the definition of a legal criminal. This is food for thought for any police officer (any American) or otherwise expendable government employee in the eyes of the government, that actually cares for their families safety above a job. They are the living flesh that matters, your family. A job is nothing and what is truly expendable.

 

[slingshot1943]

So, these doors that swing out, were are the hinges? If they are on the outside who needs to kick anything in?

Commercial doors swing out. The hinges have a screw that locks the pin in.

 

[Provincial]

In Oregon you have a "duty to retreat" from a threat in your home, even from a deadly threat.

Where did you read that? Give citation, ORS or ruling.

See Post #11.

 

[Frankenrifle]

Holy carp! In Cotati?? I have an in-law that lives there. That place shouldn't have this happening at all, not like it's a hotbed of crime. They have the motto 'Play an accordion go to Cotati'. It's a very small town.

 

[Stomper]

So, to retain your rights, you must "demonstrate" to police officers satisfaction that nothing is wrong or else they get to illegally enter your home? Angry citizens at a donut shop(?) do not override my rights. If I am misunderstanding, I apologize. If you are advocating the police' "ability" to illegally enter your property because of a raised voice, you owe the apology for spreading the idea that our rights can be suspended until the police are "satisfied".

No, you are misunderstanding my post. My point is based upon the presented video, and the entire picture is definately not being represented. How do you know for a fact the call came in "anonymously", and even if it was how do you know now if they didn't hear someone screaming? It was a domestic DISTURBANCE call, they were disturbing the peace... There is nothing keeping you from disturbing the peace, you can play your music way too loud, you can walk around your postage stamp property naked in full view of children, but don't be suprised if you get a visit from the po-po.

We don't know how long the cops were outside listening in before they announced themselves, this wasn't a random police incursion looking to crush political enemies, confiscate guns, or seize property for back taxes owed, or a wrong address for a no-knock warrant on a drug/gun running house.

The lady who was tazed was never in the video frame, what was she doing off screen? We don't know. I'm just as alarmed and outraged by the militarization of our civil police forces, and the increasingly documented cases of civil rights abuses as any of you are (like what they pulled in Boston recently), and I'm all for "throwing down" against tyrants.




As for secure doors... +1 on outward opening exterior doors. I installed them on my house, they are excellent and the hinges are pinned so they can't be popped out, but you still have to reinforce the frame as I've seen the cops use a large crowbar to pop open on the door lock side.

 

[Burt Gummer]

... but after watching that video, I don't understand why the two "adults" wouldn't demonstrate to the police that there was no domestic danger present

Well, sir, that one is easy. Thank the loving FEMALE. She is most likely the one that called.

Ponder the FACT that the downfall of just about every great man, and not so great man, is the female. If he would have just got rid of that thing he wouldn't have been facing four cops at his door in the first place. They are to be enjoyed on a lease with an option to buy only. Most certainly, never allowed to live in your home if it can be avoided at all costs. The laws are so one-side now that you can just ARGUE with one and be taken away.

Why invite such a liability and dream killer into your life?

As for reinforcing the front door what you are accomplishing (hopefully) is giving yourself time to prepare a camera, which direction you want to kneel and beg from, etc. It may also draw a lot of attention from neighbors which is a good thing. They may be less willing to murder or maim you if there are others gathered in your driveway watching.

Two of the best things you can purchase for security is a door jam reinforcement kit ($90) and a Dakota Alert driveway/proximity wireless system

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to0MhzbSaq8

 

[Kevinkris]

true enough. if you making enough noise that your neighbors think someone is getting hurt, you probably shouldnt have a relationship with that person.

 

[dmancornell]

There is no point in fighting off thugs at your door. Have you ever heard of police ever giving up and admitting defeat? No. They'll just keep coming back with more hardware. Better to acknowledge that NO you do not live in a free nation whatsoever and submit. The 98% - some call them the mindless sheeple - will be cheering on your submission as the bad guy who was taken down by heroes.

Gabe Suarez (12 year tax parasite and convicted felon): "When I was on [the] SWAT [team] our view [was] that `We will always win....even if we have to burn down your entire house by bombing it....we will win'."

Amusing, this internet tough guy asked Warrior Talk to remove his trash talk from their site when he realized it was an honest reflection of his thuggish, criminal views. Too bad the Internet Time Machine grabbed a snapshot. Learn to internet, piggy.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120904...st-swat-entries-not-what-you-think-it-is.html

Protect and serve!

 

[drew]

Well, sir, that one is easy. Thank the loving FEMALE. She is most likely the one that called.

Ponder the FACT that the downfall of just about every great man, and not so great man, is the female. If he would have just got rid of that thing he wouldn't have been facing four cops at his door in the first place. They are to be enjoyed on a lease with an option to buy only. Most certainly, never allowed to live in your home if it can be avoided at all costs. The laws are so one-side now that you can just ARGUE with one and be taken away.

Why invite such a liability and dream killer into your life?

You need to write a relationship column.

 

[joshp3]

And that...gentlemen, serves my point perfectly. I am not a slave, i am not to be controlled. It is my god given right to protect myself and my home. When/if the police push it to an unacceptable level and put you in a position that you fear for your life, even if you do what is human instinct...you are going down in flames. ITS HORSEbubblegum! Mark my words...it will be looked back upon a hundred years from now as the undoing of civilized america. The truly unfortunate part is, we all know what is coming yet we can do nothing to stop it. We granted so many so much power that there is no coming back from it. Resistance will only be met with people in power calling for more power.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I have thought about doing that here. LOL. Only direct relationship questions and honest answers. Here to help!

But the TRUTH of the matter - the root of the problem that went unnoticed - is that the female is the one that put this poor sap into the position of having his door kicked in. If he would have previously removed that from his life, he could be sitting at the beach right now, not sitting next to Bubba.



I love it when idiots try to defend marriage by asking me "how do you know you wouldn't like it if you've never been married?"

Answer: "I've never put my hand in a meat grinder, but I have enough sense to know it would not be fun"

 

[Kevinkris]

Gabe Suarez (12 year tax parasite and convicted felon): “When I was on [the] SWAT [team] our view [was] that `We will always win....even if we have to burn down your entire house by bombing it....we will win’.”

Amusing, this internet tough guy asked Warrior Talk to remove his trash talk from their site when he realized it was an honest reflection of his thuggish, criminal views. Too bad the Internet Time Machine grabbed a snapshot. Learn to internet, piggy.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120904...st-swat-entries-not-what-you-think-it-is.html

Protect and serve!

pretty good article, hard to argue with most of his points. problem is, people shouldnt have to be afraid of it.