Oregon Using Rifle for Self-Defense Outside Home

[jaysu]

Hi folks,

I count myself as pretty savvy with internet searches / queries ... I can't seem to find a definitely answer to this so thought I'd post to ask. This is in regards to Oregon. Let me give you a scenario. Assume the threat is real in both scenarios, that I have moral grounds, and use proper judgement and tactics. And that I properly stow the weapon in my car:

Let's say I am a concealed handgun license holder in OR. I keep a loaded truck rifle (let's say it's a standard AR-15) properly stored in my vehicle. I'm at a grocery store, and I hear shots ring out and decide that there's enough threat for me to pull out my truck rifle to deal with the threat. Am I legally allowed to take the rifle into the store and address the threat? Assume the property does not have a "no firearms" sticker.

OK, now let's switch the scenario above for my kid's school. Now I am protecting my own flesh and blood, versus being a good samaritan. Am I legally allowed to take the rifle into the school to address the threat?

Again, I'm asking because I think it's somewhat clear what I can do with a handgun in those scenarios, but not sure what I'm allowed to do with a rifle that I tote around in my car.

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[Nosferatu]

If it's a justified shoot, weapon type doesn't matter unless it's specified in your state laws. That's where you want to look.

However, in both scenarios, you should fully expect to be shot by the cops when they finally do arrive. They aren't going to know anything but "active shooter". Even if you or someone calls 911 and tells them what you're doing, that may or may not make it to the boots on the ground in time. Whether that's worth the risk is up to you.

 

[RVTECH]

However, in both scenarios, you should fully expect to be shot by the cops

Or by the the active shooter.

This happened to a guy in one of the shootings a couple years, I think it was in TX but cannot remember exactly but I DO remember he did just what you describe, went to his vehicle to retrieve his rifle, returned to 'address the threat' and was killed.

and decide that there's enough threat for me to pull out my truck rifle to deal with the threat.

What specifically is your criteria for a go/no go decision on what is 'enough threat' ?

 

[Koda]

The questions presented as they are should be an interesting topic. So many variables here but to start...

I'm at a grocery store, and I hear shots ring out and decide that there's enough threat for me to pull out my truck rifle to deal with the threat. Am I legally allowed to take the rifle into the store and address the threat? Assume the property does not have a "no firearms" sticker.

Even if the store has a no guns sign its legal for you to take any gun inside until they ask you to leave. The real problem with your question here is why are you going into a fight if your in a position of safety? Often you cant argue you were in fear of your life if you go back into the fight.

OK, now let's switch the scenario above for my kid's school. Now I am protecting my own flesh and blood, versus being a good samaritan. Am I legally allowed to take the rifle into the school to address the threat?

Unlike the store scenario above, even if your protecting are real legitimate threat to life including your own kids. You would be justified in using deadly force, but would still be convicted of a felony for possessing a gun in a school that prohibits it.

 

[fmvolume86]

Well I'm a bystander and I see you storming a school with a rifle , how do I know who you are ??? Expect to be shot by another hero to save the day or by police on the spot.
This is why I find it ridiculous people think they should go RAMBO and save the day . I don't want joe shmo pulling their gun out trying to be a hero.... use your gun for your own self defense. What I do want is uniformed, identifable uniformed men and women who are armed gaurding all schools. But Oregon Demorats just voted down 7 bills to protect school children while pushing 3 anti constitutional bills that will end up passing.

 

[Koda]

Well I'm a bystander and I see you storming a school with a rifle , how do I know who you are ??? Expect to be shot by another hero to save the day or by police on the spot.
This is why I find it ridiculous people think they should go RAMBO and save the day . I don't want joe shmo pulling their gun out trying to be a hero.... use your gun for your own self defense. What I do want is uniformed, identifable uniformed men and women who are armed gaurding all schools. But Oregon Demorats just voted down 7 bills to protect school children while pushing 3 anti constitutional bills that will end up passing.

What if it was your kid in the school? The Ulvalde parents might think differently about this opinion...

 

[dplev4]

You may use lethal force "anywhere" so long as it is in defense of yourself or others…from death or serious injury. That said it's an affirmative defense so the burden of proving "self defense" will be on you. The standard applied is one of reasonableness. Unfortunately what is reasonable is fluid and likely to be different for a Multnomah County jury than a Josephine County jury.

Also remember that neither Oregon nor Washington currently recognize stand your ground arguments. This further muddies the water in these cases. Regardless, if you are in an active shooter situation you are as equally likely to be shot by the first responders as the shooter.

I think we'd all do everything we could to save our kids, consequences be damned. However, you better also be damned capable and trained before trying, or in the aftermath you may be seeing them through plexiglas…

 

[fmvolume86]

What if it was your kid in the school? The Ulvalde parents might think differently about this opinion...

They can think different and again you can want to go in there and save the day but expect to be shot..... that's like saying what if it was your kid drowning in an icy river. yeah go jump right in, but expect to drown as well. I'm not trying to be insensitive here, I get it you want to go save the day , but reality is reality expect to get shot.

 

[Koda]

They can think different and again you can want to go in there and save the day but expect to be shot..... that's like saying what if it was your kid drowning in an icy river. yeah go jump right in, but expect to drown as well. I'm not trying to be insensitive here, I get it you want to go save the day , but reality is reality expect to get shot.

I agree with that. I think in such a scenario it would be foolish to retreieve a rifle and run back into the school. A concealed pistol would be a better hail mary to get your kid out.

 

[Loc]

I'm just going to address the school scenario. No. Most states do not allow anyone but LE to be on a K-12 campus with a firearm, let alone loaded or actively intending to shoot someone, CHL or not.

 

[solv3nt]

I'm just going to address the school scenario. No. Most states do not allow anyone but LE to be on a K-12 campus with a firearm, let alone loaded or actively intending to shoot someone, CHL or not.

Oregon sort of does still. They recently changed that by allowing school districts to vote against it.

 

[solv3nt]

Also, you're likely to get shot by any CHL on site.

 

[Member 53328]

It's a good way to get shot by another "good guy."

For example - I hear and active shooting and then see you running into the same building with a rifle with no LEO markers/identification.

Are you another suspect?
Are you a good guy?

I sure as hell am not gunna wait and ask. If you get my drift.

You're in the clear but you assume a ton of risk. Death being number 1.

Operational risk management is key.

Risk vs. reward.

 

[nwslopoke]

Well I'm a bystander and I see you storming a school with a rifle , how do I know who you are ??? Expect to be shot by another hero to save the day or by police on the spot.
This is why I find it ridiculous people think they should go RAMBO and save the day . I don't want joe shmo pulling their gun out trying to be a hero.... use your gun for your own self defense. What I do want is uniformed, identifable uniformed men and women who are armed gaurding all schools. But Oregon Demorats just voted down 7 bills to protect school children while pushing 3 anti constitutional bills that will end up passing.

This falls under, give teachers guns. Just another adult with a gun or do teachers start wearing badges too? Old Ms Johnson could now be a school shooter.

It depends. Do what you can, even if it's just helping people get away from the danger. If you take on the responsibility of shooting people, you better be sure you know who you are shooting because even with all the videos and accolades, the Tennessee cops...could have done better.

 

[jaysu]

Thanks for the responses. It's helpful to consider. By no means am I advocating for Rambo'ing the situation. It's been drilled into my head that each round you release is a lifetime in prison or a $30m lawsuit. And both a grocery store and a school are extremely risky situations. So it better be worth it before you do anything.

That said, I think mental exercises like this are helpful to better test boundary scenarios. So I appreciate the responses.

If this is the case ... why do so many people then talk about truck guns for civilians, then? There's a whole cottage industry around strapping a rifle into your car "just in case." Looking at the collective responses above, it seems highly risky to deploy a truck gun outside your property (let alone a big theft risk).

 

[solv3nt]

This falls under, give teachers guns. Just another adult with a gun or do teachers start wearing badges too? Old Ms Johnson could now be a school shooter.

It depends. Do what you can, even if it's just helping people get away from the danger. If you take on the responsibility of shooting people, you better be sure you know who you are shooting because even with all the videos and accolades, the Tennessee cops...could have done better.

Old Ms. Johnson can be a school shooter even without teachers being allowed to carry....

 

[Koda]

If this is the case ... why do so many people then talk about truck guns for civilians, then? There's a whole cottage industry around strapping a rifle into your car "just in case." Looking at the collective responses above, it seems highly risky to deploy a truck gun outside your property (let alone a big theft risk).

Because most people dont think thru their survivalist SHTF fantasies. Outside of dispersed camping in remote places a rifle in an urban environment is more of a liability for theft.

 

[Member 53328]

If this is the case ... why do so many people then talk about truck guns for civilians, then? There's a whole cottage industry around strapping a rifle into your car "just in case." Looking at the collective responses above, it seems highly risky to deploy a truck gun outside your property (let alone a big theft risk).

Cause it is marketed as something it's not. Some people really do carry a rifle in their truck and have no concept of the liabilities or complications of deploying it in CERTAIN environments. If it doesn't get stolen first.

I'm not talking about living in the country or driving in the woods.

 

[Dillon1000]

GREAT THREAD, MAYBE WE ALL LEARNED A LITTLE SOMETHING.

 

[solv3nt]

Cause it is marketed as something it's not. Some people really do carry a rifle in their truck and have no concept of the liabilities or complications of deploying it in CERTAIN environments. If it doesn't get stolen first.

I'm not talking about living in the country or driving in the woods.

Odds are greater that it gets stolen then you using it.