If police enter your home...illegally? What would you do?

[EMNofSeattle]

I actually thought that article was pretty amusing.

 

[dmancornell]

pretty good article, hard to argue with most of his points. problem is, people shouldnt have to be afraid of it.

No, the article is insane.

#1/#2 argues people shouldn't live in areas where the SWAT gang operates, as if the 4th amendment does not apply to poor people.

#3 argues that conformists don't get SWAT raided. That is not necessarily true (see: Mayor's Dogs Killed in Drug Raid - Hit & Run : Reason.com), but I didn't see anything in the 4th Amendment saying that Constitutional protections are only afforded to people abiding by societal norms as defined by the state.

Suarez's rant regarding "don't get noticed by the wrong people" proves that he has no individual sense of right or wrong, he has totally abdicated that part of his mind to the state. He is a textbook example of the banality of evil, as demonstrated by Adolf Eichmann's Führerprinzip/superior orders defense.

Frankly the entire modern LEO profession is based on Führerprinzip and deserves nothing but scorn and derision.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

No, the article is insane.

#1/#2 argues people shouldn't live in areas where the SWAT gang operates, as if the 4th amendment does not apply to poor people.

no, it's a statistical truth that living in high crime areas is bad for your health. the "poor people" you're concerned about have a far higher probability of being harmed by gang enforcers then wrong address raids

#3 argues that conformists don't get SWAT raided. That is not necessarily true (see: Mayor's Dogs Killed in Drug Raid - Hit & Run : Reason.com), but I didn't see anything in the 4th Amendment saying that Constitutional protections are only afforded to people abiding by societal norms as defined by the state.

Reason magazine?! That's a good one, I almost split my lungs laughing....


Suarez's rant regarding "don't get noticed by the wrong people" proves that he has no individual sense of right or wrong, he has totally abdicated that part of his mind to the state. He is a textbook example of the banality of evil, as demonstrated by Adolf Eichmann's Führerprinzip/superior orders defense.


Actually it's good advice, people generally only get on LEs radar by acting like criminals, or hanging out with criminals, or engaging the criminal underclass.
very few people get targetted by anyone when their dealings are clean.

Frankly the entire modern LEO profession is based on Führerprinzip and deserves nothing but scorn and derision.

I know right, let's just live in a society with no form of government at all. everyone can own AK-47s and just do whatever they want, until you piss someone off, then they can kill you. sounds like where I really want to live.

 

[dmancornell]

no, it's a statistical truth that living in high crime areas is bad for your health. the "poor people" you're concerned about have a far higher probability of being harmed by gang enforcers then wrong address raids

Implying the existence of gangs justifies the crimes of the blue gang.

Reason magazine?! That's a good one, I almost split my lungs laughing....

Keep laughing:

Berwyn Heights, Maryland mayor's residence drug raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Prince George's settles suit by Berwyn Heights mayor over storming of home

Actually it's good advice, people generally only get on LEs radar by acting like criminals, or hanging out with criminals, or engaging the criminal underclass.
very few people get targetted by anyone when their dealings are clean.

Firstly, "criminal" is a government definition and that definition is totally open to abuse (see drug war, Prohibition). Secondly, SWAT raids are so commonplace that they are now deployed for routine warrants, ergo, the entire notion of innocence before guilt is kaput. Operating with preemptive aggression towards supposedly innocent suspects is the hallmark of a police state.

I know right, let's just live in a society with no form of government at all. everyone can own AK-47s and just do whatever they want, until you piss someone off, then they can kill you. sounds like where I really want to live.

Sounds good to me. Also thanks for proving that statists believe that the government violence is the only thing stopping people from killing each other, such is the level of contempt you have for your fellow man.

 

[joshp3]

See this is where people tend to go wrong. It isnt that i expect to be able to do whatever i want, i just expect the punishment to fit the crime. Because the majority of LE has become over bearing and fairly one sided people are in a state of fear generally when dealing with the police/gov. IT SHOULD NEVER BE THIS WAY. To be honest i think our legal system has become faaaaar disconnected with enforcement of the moral code (or overall state of life quality) it was established to uphold. It has become more about "the rules" and what fines/sentences can be attached to those rules.

 

[Garg]

The question was : If police enter your home...illegally? What would you do?

Well first you let them in without breaking the door I mean what do you have to hide?
I mean let them check things out for their safety. Remember they are here to help you.
And don't get all mouthy saying where is your warrant,and quoting the Constitution unless you are a trouble maker.
Laws are made to protect you, if police need to enter your home they should be able to for the good of the people.

OK, I almost finished that with a straight face, scary thing what I just wrote many Liberals will swear by. My hope is everyone read this and laughed and, did not go "hey thats right".......... That would be messed up

LMAO, for a minute there, you had me worried.

 

[mjbskwim]

In Oregon you have a "duty to retreat" from a threat in your home, even from a deadly threat.

BS show the law.

This says nothing about retreat from your home

161.219 Limitations on use of deadly physical force in defense of a person. Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.209, a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:
(1) Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or
(3) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person. [1971 c.743 §23]

 

[deen_ad]

Actually it's good advice, people generally only get on LEs radar by acting like criminals, or hanging out with criminals, or engaging the criminal underclass. Very few people get targeted by anyone when their dealings are clean.

Actually it can happen: DIL's brother was being investigated for poaching and selling bear organs. We noticed a lot of police cars cruising by at all hours. I even stopped one and asked what was going on and told them I was glad to see them around. It wasn't till months later that I found out what they were doing. DIL now denies that any such investigation occurred but she's the one who told us in the first place. And to boot my son and his family live miles away and only visited us once in a while but it was enough for the police to start watching us.

 

[Kevinkris]

No, the article is insane.

#1/#2 argues people shouldn't live in areas where the SWAT gang operates, as if the 4th amendment does not apply to poor people.

#3 argues that conformists don't get SWAT raided. That is not necessarily true (see: Mayor's Dogs Killed in Drug Raid - Hit & Run : Reason.com), but I didn't see anything in the 4th Amendment saying that Constitutional protections are only afforded to people abiding by societal norms as defined by the state.

Suarez's rant regarding "don't get noticed by the wrong people" proves that he has no individual sense of right or wrong, he has totally abdicated that part of his mind to the state. He is a textbook example of the banality of evil, as demonstrated by Adolf Eichmann's Führerprinzip/superior orders defense.

Frankly the entire modern LEO profession is based on Führerprinzip and deserves nothing but scorn and derision.

never said i agree with it. i consider it a good read because it shows the mentality behind the cops that do bubblegumty things to people. one thing for sure though, do get yourself noticed happens to be good advice but not exactly in your control a good part of the time.

 

[Kevinkris]

The question was : If police enter your home...illegally? What would you do?

Well first you let them in without breaking the door I mean what do you have to hide?
I mean let them check things out for their safety. Remember they are here to help you.
And don't get all mouthy saying where is your warrant,and quoting the Constitution unless you are a trouble maker.
Laws are made to protect you, if police need to enter your home they should be able to for the good of the people.

OK, I almost finished that with a straight face, scary thing what I just wrote many Liberals will swear by. My hope is everyone read this and laughed and, did not go "hey thats right".......... That would be messed up

sadly that happens to be what is taught in schools.

 

[unklekippy]

I've been removing the BS from my boy's "learnin'" since he was 5. Our 3rd and 4th graders are taught that MLK Jr. had more to do with the foundation of this country than Washington or Jefferson(no, not Weezy). They don't know what 9/11 is, but they know that the US was horrible for crimes committed against slaves.

Point is, if your child is 9 or 10, and you haven't yet cleared out the Communist "for the good of the whole" crap, it might be too late. Complacency is very much learned. It is also taught.

 

[Kevatc]

The big question is how to determine if it really is the police entering your home. With criminals committing home invasions while identifying themselves as police, the homeowner is in a tough spot trying to sort it out in "combat." Perhaps we need a thread about that subject alone!

In the case of the video cited in the OP the police were quite clearly identified. I would also "guess" that 99.9% of the time if cops show up serving a search warrant they are yelling it as they come in. In cases where there is no time for a search warrant I am 99.9% sure that LEO's are yelling POLICE at the top of their lungs not only to ID themselves but to intimidate in order to minimize the need to fire their weapons. I highly doubt that a single bad guy or even two or three are going to be dressing up like LEO's and yelling to make things look like a search warrant in order to gain entry to a home.

Had i been faced with the same situation as the guy in the video I would tell the cops to pound sand until they came with a search warrant. It was daylight, there were no "victims", they could obviously communicate. If it were a night time no knock and I was suddenly awakened by LEO's entering my home properly ID'd I would have to take the humiliation in the short term but enjoy the "eff you" in the long-term when I sued them.

In reality, under Florida v. J.L. (March 28, 2000), “the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed that anonymous tips are not sufficient grounds to constitute probable cause for a search. Judge Ginsburg, writing for the Supreme Court, stated, “Such an exception would enable any person seeking to harass another to set in motion an intrusive, embarrassing police search of the targeted person simply by placing an anonymous call.…”

Exactly and she is a "liberal" judge! It's this kind of scenario that has had our military kicking in doors and killing folks in Iraq and A-stan because their neighbor is still pissed about something that happened 10 years prior.

Whatever happened to the idea of coming to the door and calmly identifying yourself as the police in a conversational voice, then inquiring whether this is the correct address, and whether or not the people you are looking for live there? Houses have doorbells for a reason. Constantly screaming "Police!" at the top of your lungs, while kicking in the door, and pointing loaded weapons provides little opportunity for communications to correct mistakes or assess the situation with input from the occupant of the premises. A lot of innocent people would be alive today if the police attempted to actually communicate in the above situations.

THIS ^^^! I've never been through a LEO academy so maybe I am talking out my buttocks but it would seem to me they should spend a lot more time teaching future cops how to react in a calm and thoughtful manner and use some common sense and try to diffuse situations instead of making them worse by kicking in a door and tazing folks.

Now, with all this said, it's these kinds of videos in the OP and can be easily found on YouTube that get us all fired up and our panties in a bunch. However, I bet for every one episode like in the video in the OP (whcih I bet there is more to that story than what has been brought to the light of gun forums) there are at least 50 where a cop is calm, helpful, and not kicking in doors and drawing the tazer.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

All good points Kev.

 

[watchman]

I think that every one of us will need to make that decision for ourselves, preferably before such an event in order to establish the correct mindset needed to act decisively should such a situation occur.

I don't think it wise to telegraph openly our strategy regarding such. Let them wonder and guess.
Posting things that indicate one would be willing to initiate violence toward LEO, even in defense of their homes and Civil Rights, could easily put one on the radar of DHS, FBI, ATF, and all the other alphabet soup govt. agencies, making such an incident all the more likely.

This is a conversation best held amongst friends and family in private, not broadcast on the internet for all to see.
Big Brother IS watching.
Let Freedom Ring!

 

[joshp3]

I cant disagree with your point, but i can certainly voice my distaste for its validity! We all have to remember those pesky "thought police" lol! Thanks for the heads up George!

 

[Diamondback]

Beyond noting that you are not obligated to provide them with electricity, water or telecom on your dime, and urging everyone to look up and read the article "What To Do When The ATF Comes A-Calling" (written by a lawyer, and it's basically a checklist through the process of lawyering up), I'm not saying anything... this is something each of us must discuss with those who live under our own roofs, and decide for ourselves.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Beyond noting that you are not obligated to provide them with electricity, water or telecom on your dime, and urging everyone to look up and read the article "What To Do When The ATF Comes A-Calling" (written by a lawyer, and it's basically a checklist through the process of lawyering up), I'm not saying anything... this is something each of us must discuss with those who live under our own roofs, and decide for ourselves.

Here's the article...

<broken link removed>

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

It is called early retirement, hire the best civil rights attorney.

The sceptic in me says maybe this guy asked for this or wanted it in a get rich quick scheme. Whats an unlawful tasering worth these days?

 

[Sgt Nambu]

If you live in Indiana, you shoot them: Indiana legalizes shooting cops

WOW! It's going to take me a while to absorb all this. It looks like LEOs in Indiana are going to have to be careful to actually announce that they are LE and proceed with caution. It's just too sad that the poor dears will have to curtail the military tactics a bit. I have always been a supporter of LE, but the militarization of police chills me to the bone!

PS: I would cooperate totally and let my lawyer handle it. I have a fierce lawyer!

 

[jjackffrost]

We have cameras and a sign on the fence that lets anyone coming in know that they are being filmed and that it is a live feed to the net it makes a big difference when the peace officers come to the door and remember cops are like vampires once you let them in you can never get rid of them always talk to them on the porch
PS. Most cops that I have met are nice guys doing a job I would not want to do. give them a brake and treat them with respect that will make all the difference in the world.