how would you arm a medium group for defense? (SHTF hypothetical)

[Correctthought]

Red Dawn?

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly

 

[durango#95]

EZ! AKM 47's for all, with plenty of Wolf 7.62x39mm 124g JHP's Cheep and effective. Good to 100+ yrds even with a novice behind the stock, flat will not quit going bang, and if 8yr olds in 3rd world countries all around the world can shoot them.............

 

[BryanO]

A bunch of SKSs... cheap, easy to use, and there is a bunch of ammo out there worldwide. It may no longer be cheap, but its out there.

 

[unionguy]

First of all - point well taken about arming the unarmed. My thinking was more of a "long term" post-apocalyptic scenario where a group of people decided to cooperate. It's easy enough to say you will turn away neighbors in need, but I'm not so sure I could turn away people - people I know or work with, if they were starving or otherwise might not survive without my intervention.

I'd rather take some risk bartering .22LR ammo for goats milk than hide in a bunker for 5 years with just my immediate family.

All of this brings up a curious thought: Many of us are "like minded", and in a SHTF scenario would benefit from various levels of cooperation. However, since most survival groups seem intent on isolation from others, how could we find each other, and how could we possibly know who's trust worthy?

Just seems a big shame that we couldn't leverage our combined strengths - but perhaps the risk is too great?

For what you're describing, I'd recommend AK's and SKS's...relatively cheap, will store well, robust mechanics...exactly what you need if you're talking long-term survival of a group that survives (somehow) the first "wave" of SHTF, if you will. You can also get the ammo in those steel, long-term storage cases.

I actually agree with you...even an immediate family of 4-6 will have a tough time making it through a total collapse by themselves. You will need a larger group.

 

[Arkarayne]

I may get ridiculed for this, but, go the RPG/FPS approach.

Give your scouts (foragers forward ops/observation) [former hunters, backpackers, etc]
Hunting rifles, manstopper pistols, binocs

Give your troopers (vanguard, security) [Security, police, ex-military, etc]
AR/AK/etc rifles that send bullets downrange.

Give your engineers (mechanics, carpenters) [construction, auto industry, etc]
good carbine rifles, OR tactical shotguns, and manstopper pistols

Give your medics (medical, ammo re-suppliers) [doctors, nurses, caregivers etc]
low-recoil pistols and (if you can) the decent armor, they'll be the most in harms way.

Give your snipers (nesters, lookouts) [ex-snipers, people with natural accuracy, etc]
High-power rifles with good scopes, binocs, and a backpack of ammo. and a sandwich.

not everyone's gonna be physically and combatively gonna be able to use the same weapons. (in this case, there's 6 different weapons, 6 ammo types, relatively easy to micro-manage.)

figure a group of 10-20 able-shooting people, 2-4 Scouts, 3-6 Troopers, 2-4 Mechanics, 2-3 Medics, and 1-3 Snipers.

Scouts a bit of a self-trained position.
Troopers need more extensive training, but there's civilian classes on teamwork and combat.
Mechanics, minor weapons training.
Medics, basic point-and-shoot training and reloading.
Snipers, lots of tin cans at 400 yards and an afternoon.

(this is ALL in my personal opinion, I could be wrong, could work for you, could not, all situation-based.)

 

[Redcap]

I may get ridiculed for this, but, go the RPG/FPS approach.

Give your scouts (foragers forward ops/observation) [former hunters, backpackers, etc]
Hunting rifles, manstopper pistols, binocs

Give your troopers (vanguard, security) [Security, police, ex-military, etc]
AR/AK/etc rifles that send bullets downrange.

Give your engineers (mechanics, carpenters) [construction, auto industry, etc]
good carbine rifles, OR tactical shotguns, and manstopper pistols

Give your medics (medical, ammo re-suppliers) [doctors, nurses, caregivers etc]
low-recoil pistols and (if you can) the decent armor, they'll be the most in harms way.

Give your snipers (nesters, lookouts) [ex-snipers, people with natural accuracy, etc]
High-power rifles with good scopes, binocs, and a backpack of ammo. and a sandwich.

not everyone's gonna be physically and combatively gonna be able to use the same weapons. (in this case, there's 6 different weapons, 6 ammo types, relatively easy to micro-manage.)

figure a group of 10-20 able-shooting people, 2-4 Scouts, 3-6 Troopers, 2-4 Mechanics, 2-3 Medics, and 1-3 Snipers.

Scouts a bit of a self-trained position.
Troopers need more extensive training, but there's civilian classes on teamwork and combat.
Mechanics, minor weapons training.
Medics, basic point-and-shoot training and reloading.
Snipers, lots of tin cans at 400 yards and an afternoon.

(this is ALL in my personal opinion, I could be wrong, could work for you, could not, all situation-based.)

No, I think you are pretty spot-on.

 

[stitchclimber]

hmmm,

whatever guns are available. for me it would be a mix of .22's, shotguns, hunting rifles, AK's and AR's

 

[smurf hunter]

I may get ridiculed for this, but, go the RPG/FPS approach.

Give your scouts (foragers forward ops/observation) [former hunters, backpackers, etc]
Hunting rifles, manstopper pistols, binocs

Give your troopers (vanguard, security) [Security, police, ex-military, etc]
AR/AK/etc rifles that send bullets downrange.

Give your engineers (mechanics, carpenters) [construction, auto industry, etc]
good carbine rifles, OR tactical shotguns, and manstopper pistols

Give your medics (medical, ammo re-suppliers) [doctors, nurses, caregivers etc]
low-recoil pistols and (if you can) the decent armor, they'll be the most in harms way.

Give your snipers (nesters, lookouts) [ex-snipers, people with natural accuracy, etc]
High-power rifles with good scopes, binocs, and a backpack of ammo. and a sandwich.

not everyone's gonna be physically and combatively gonna be able to use the same weapons. (in this case, there's 6 different weapons, 6 ammo types, relatively easy to micro-manage.)

figure a group of 10-20 able-shooting people, 2-4 Scouts, 3-6 Troopers, 2-4 Mechanics, 2-3 Medics, and 1-3 Snipers.

Scouts a bit of a self-trained position.
Troopers need more extensive training, but there's civilian classes on teamwork and combat.
Mechanics, minor weapons training.
Medics, basic point-and-shoot training and reloading.
Snipers, lots of tin cans at 400 yards and an afternoon.

(this is ALL in my personal opinion, I could be wrong, could work for you, could not, all situation-based.)

Great break down - thanks.

I'd probably become one of the engineers/mechanics. I'm a software guy by school and career, but am a big DIY and mechanical guy. While it might seem "cool" to be one of the "troopers", in reality I'm the one who can lace bicycle wheels, build a PV rechargeable 12v battery bank and procure safe drinking water.

 

[Ragingpit]

I feel that neighborhoods or small communities will have to come together and defend their land and belongings. There is the movie "The Postman" and in the movie is a small community that had built tall walls around their town and armed themselves. Also, don't underestimate the worth of a Ruger 10/22... light weight, someone can be very mobile with it, tons of ammo for cheap, etc....

 

[Just Jim]

Since you don't put up a dollar limit then it is impossible to figure out what is best.

jj

 

[MountainBear]

Two points I think are being overlooked. One, I'm not sure in the scenario thati you are putting forth I would want to waste ANY ammunition on training. Given that there wouldn't be a C-141 air dropping resupply to you anytime soon, it may behoove you to use your limited supply of ammunition wisely. Even 3000 rounds per gun can burn up quickly if you're defending a large area. Second, I still think that you are assuming someone can pick up a gun, even a low recoil carbine or pistol, and make it work for them. There may or may not be time to train, ammo to train, area to train (for those of you stuck in the suburbs). I think the poster who broke it down into scouts, troopers, etc. makes an interesting argument. He breaks it down essentially how a military would. Its well thought out and if this were 100 years ago, I think it would be very fitting. But as I said before, not everyone is going to be trained up. My preference would be to place one or two sentinels to protect the medical people, or stash the untrained families in a bunker/basement/shelter of some sort. I would argue a smaller better trained group would fair better than a larger untrained mess.
All of the above argument hinges on not have time, ability, or supplies to properly train people up. Remember once the ammo is gone in your scenario, its gone. And even if you did have the ammo, in this scenario, would you really want to draw attention to your group by firing off firearms? I image low key would be a good thing.

 

[MountainBear]

I feel that neighborhoods or small communities will have to come together and defend their land and belongings. There is the movie "The Postman" and in the movie is a small community that had built tall walls around their town and armed themselves. Also, don't underestimate the worth of a Ruger 10/22... light weight, someone can be very mobile with it, tons of ammo for cheap, etc....

Wasn't that town blown out of existence by the militia with howitzers? Never fight where you live if you can avoid it. Kind of like bubbleguming where you eat. Besides fixed defenses have a way of being encircled and subject to a siege or blockade, so you best hope you're indefinitely stocked inside the walls.

 

[Arkarayne]

Well, it's damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't then. unless any raiding group is part of a larger group, scaring/taking out a group of marauders is the best defense over letting them raid your neighborhood and decide to come to your place next. Yes, an armed defense of an area will attract attention, but either someone stays away from said area, or causes a problem and gets voted off the island, or buried.
Depletion of rounds is always an issue, WW1 and 2 had those issues, opposing forces would throw insults across battlefields til a resupply came. a resupply ain't gonna happen if SHTF unless you do it yourself, which means, foraging, war spoils, or procuring/developing the means to make more ammo. (powder, primer, cases, bullets, etc.) or going back to swords and shields.
"Nothing will happen unless you make it happen." you can't rely on a neighborhood militia just springing up and making your home safe. make it happen. you can't expect an ammo drop, make it happen.
"All plans for survival are; 10% training, 10% setup/planning, and 100% figuring it out as you go."

Defense is a good offense, offensive force is a good deterrent. In a way everyone will be a raiding party, it's the reasons that define you. survival, decedence, aid, power, control, or greed. everyone's gonna be a bad guy to someone, frankly it's better to be the one WITH options then no option.

Best to be ready for the majority of scenarios, then try to pan out all of them.
*puts away the soapbox.*

Oh, i'd be a Sniper or Scout.