How do I choose the best handgun for my teen daughter to learn and practice with?

[BrandonQuixote]

I disagree. There is more to shooting than pulling the trigger. A single action revolver will teach the person how to line up the sights on the target to hit what he or she is aiming at just as well as autoloader. It will give the person a sense of what recoil feels like (and even a .22 has some recoil). A person can learn about trigger control on either just as well. They are typically heavier than polymer pistols and help mitigate felt recoil allowing a person to focus more on the techniques and joys of shooting. There's no safety to complicate matters and understanding whether the gun can fire or not (hammer back after thumbing it) is easy to understand (I suppose you could give a person an autoloader without a safey, but I wouldn't -- it's too much all at once when dealing with something that can kill you).

On the safety side, a single action revolver makes it much less likely that the person is going to flag everyone behind him or her with a live round in the pipe, something that's possible in the excitement following one's first shots, or the first time hitting the target, and really dangerous if a round has been loaded. With a SA revolver this is reminder time about the four rules, not a duck and swear moment bringing the mood way down. Nor will half the range day be spent figuring out why the gun won't feed reliably should it happen to be one of those days -- standing around watching a gun not work when you expected to shoot it has to be a real buzz kill.

She shouldn't be flagging anyone ever. Round chambered or not. She may not know it, but you should know that all guns are assume loaded at all times and flagging deserves a severe reprimand.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

So seeing just what the new shooter wants to shoot ....and if they want to shoot something other than your choices ...its "Peal clutching...?"

In my case the newest person I taught to shoot , does not like semi auto black plastic anything...
But she does like my Hawken rifle and wood stocked Wingmasters , and other such firearms...
So should I have shown her how to shoot with a firearm that she does not like or one that she does....?

I stand by my first thoughts on this ,,,,,and No it ain't "Romanticism"....
Just 'cause its old , don't meant that it don't work.
If it works for them,...it ain't a niche...it works...therefore it is a good choice for them

If an old firearm or firearm design is what works for someone..Why say that is wrong for them...?

I say again :
It is best if the instruction is tailored to fit the students needs , wants and likes...Not the instructors needs , wants or likes.
Andy

 

[EPS]

IMO the best thing is to find someone with a variety of guns to try out -- one way is to sign up for a training class like those from Firearm Education Training | Lock and Load Em (they're in SW WA so that may be too far from you) so she can try out a wide variety of guns, and get some professional training as a bonus

Good Luck!

Like I said before.
To bad she is in Oregon.
I have all kinds of guns from a 22 all the way up to 308 or 12 ga
Multiple pistols in different caliber.
More than happy to let people shoot them and try different things.
This is a gun web site I'm sure there are people on here close to her.
That could help out.
Just saying.

 

[EPS]

Ask @AndyinEverson .
Lol he lets me shoot his old guns .
And I let him shoot my new ones.
WIN WIN

 

[BrandonQuixote]

So seeing just what the new shooter wants to shoot ....and if they want to shoot something other than your choices ...its "Peal clutching...?"

In my case the newest person I taught to shoot , does not like semi auto black plastic anything...
But she does like my Hawken rifle and wood stocked Wingmasters , and other such firearms...
So should I have shown her how to shoot with a firearm that she does not like or one that she does....?

I stand by my first thoughts on this ,,,,,and No it ain't "Romanticism"....
Just 'cause its old , don't meant that it don't work.
If it works for them,...it ain't a niche...it works...therefore it is a good choice for them

If an old firearm or firearm design is what works for someone..Why say that is wrong for them...?

I say again :
It is best if the instruction is tailored to fit the students needs , wants and likes...Not the instructors needs , wants or likes.
Andy

The girl in question has no stated preferences. Anecdotes about preferences are irrelevant.

I never said it didn't work or just because its old, it doesn't work.

I never said it was wrong if she chose it. She clearly hasn't chosen anything- thus the thread was created.

I've reiterated my point several times, but everyone is too concerned about how that point makes THEM feel, instead of what would be most beneficial for the girl who's nearly gun-naive and most recent endeavor was more scarring that informative or positively reinforcing.
In what other instance would you forgo any technological advancements in teaching a child just to selfishly reinforce the backwards notion that because you learned this way- decades ago- that's how it should be done? There are no preferences, desires or discrimination against black plastic pistols...just a blank canvas, and we're going to skip over all the options and pull out 100 year old lead based paint?

 

[Flopsweat]

*Pearl clutching intensifies*
Fondness and sentimental romanticism doesnt preclude obsolescence. Suggesting she learn the same way you did is narcissistic. Deprive the girl of modern ergonomics, modern gripping technique, modern pistol technology. Deprive her of repetitions of concepts that carry over to modern rifle manual of arms- chamber checking and magazine manipulation and the concept that a gun can have a magazine removed but still be loaded. Deprive her of the concept of a manual safety that may need to be disengaged before firing. These are all value added, mental pathways and concepts that she should be cognizant of while using a modern firearm...in 2019. Once she gets the hang of that, niche weapons like revolvers and black powder and lever action could be added to the regiment.
Why start her off in a specialized niche?
Because that's how you learned?

Oh for crying out loud. There is nothing wrong with starting someone with a revolver. It's not like they're never going to learn to shoot a semi-auto. Lighten up Francis.

And carrying a revolver is OK too, just so you know. I do occasionally and I've never burst into flames. This may come as a shock to you but I know how to reload it too.

 

[EPS]

Oh for crying out loud. There is nothing wrong with starting someone with a revolver. It's not like they're never going to learn to shoot a semi-auto. Lighten up Francis.

And carrying a revolver is OK too, just so you know. I do occasionally and I've never burst into flames. This may come as a shock to you but I know how to reload it too.

Lol yep .
I have a few automatic.
Guns but guess what I will be carrying in the woods.
A great big six shooter 357 or 44 mag.
Because Big Bear's don't care about your 15 round 9mm .

 

[EPS]

Just saying.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The girl in question has no stated preferences. Anecdotes about preferences are irrelevant.

I never said it didn't work or just because its old, it doesn't work.

I never said it was wrong if she chose it. She clearly hasn't chosen anything- thus the thread was created.

I've reiterated my point several times, but everyone is too concerned about how that point makes THEM feel, instead of what would be most beneficial for the girl who's nearly gun-naive and most recent endeavor was more scarring that informative or positively reinforcing.
In what other instance would you forgo any technological advancements in teaching a child just to selfishly reinforce the backwards notion that because you learned this way- decades ago- that's how it should be done? There are no preferences, desires or discrimination against black plastic pistols...just a blank canvas, and we're going to skip over all the options and pull out 100 year old lead based paint?

We are not talking 'bout paint so your example used here is irrelevant....

And I again my main points are :
The best instructions are tailored to fit the students needs , wants and likes , not the instructors , needs , wants or likes
And to not outright dismiss something because its old or of a old design.

Which seems to be the case here with terms like :
Archaic
Obsolete
Technological Advancements
Niche
And how they are used to bolster a argument.
Andy

 

[BSG 75]

When you come down to it all of the "modern" firearms we use today are using technology that is pretty old.

• Metallic cartridges, lever action rifles, and revolvers were invented in the mid 19th century.
• Smokeless powder, bolt action rifles, pump action long guns, and semiauto firearms were invented in the late 19th-early 20th century.
• "Assault rifles" were invented in the mid 20th century. The AK is a 70-year-old design and the AR-15 design is almost 60 years old.
• Even using polymer for pistol frames - which was just a change in materials, not a change in action or mechanism - dates back to the HK VP70 49 years ago. The Glock 17 has been in production for 37 years.

I wouldn't call any recently designed, new production firearm using any of the above technologies "archaic" or "obsolete". Firearms are not like cell phones or computers where even a 5 or 10-year-old model is antiquated.

Both this current production 8-shot .357 magnum revolver (web photo)



and this current production 8-shot .45ACP semiauto pistol (web photo)


use designs that are more than 100 years old. Now some plastic pistol fans might say both are antiqued designs but there is not much difference fundamentally between their polymer semiauto pistol and a 1911.

Until they come up with a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range all current firearm designs use old technology. The fact that some designs are even older than other old designs is splitting hairs.

As I posted earlier I expose new shooters to several different designs of firearms so they become familiar what is out there and they can form their own opinions as to what they prefer. More experience and knowledge is good. Learning how to load, operate, and unload revolvers, pistols, bolt action, lever action, and semiauto rifles isn't going to confuse or overwhelm them. It isn't rocket science.

PS - the above doesn't apply to Andy's black powder muzzle-loaders. Now those are antiquated.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

We are not talking 'bout paint so your example used here is irrelevant....

And I again my main points are :
The best instructions are tailored to fit the students needs , wants and likes , not the instructors , needs , wants or likes
And to not outright dismiss something because its old or of a old design.

Which seems to be the case here with terms like :
Archaic
Obsolete
Technological Advancements
Niche
And how they are used to bolster a argument.
Andy

Metaphor, analogy and how anecdotes differ must elude you.

Mom has a G42.
Mom should buy a case of .380 and take the girl out.

I get you like old designs. Clearly it offends you when people say thing about something you don't like about something you've developed such a strong attachment to. Perhaps it so much a part of you, it feels as if i'm insulting you for being archaic, irrelevant and niche.
But you're shoehorning your preferences when giving the girl the most modern, safe and capable example of a firearm to start with (WHICH MOM ALREADY HAS!!), seems like the most neutral and beneficial idea. Don't try an form her to what YOU are, what YOU like, start her in the middle and she can branch from there, based on those "student ... likes" you talked about. Does she need a .22 bearcat? does she need to learn single action? does she need to know how to eject brass and reload individually?

Or maybe because mom owns a G42, she NEEDS to know how to rack a slide or just check the chamber. How to load a magazine, how to eject a magazine and how to take up slack in a Glock trigger?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Metaphor, analogy and how anecdotes differ must elude you.

Mom has a G42.
Mom should buy a case of .380 and take the girl out.

I get you like old designs. Clearly it offends you when people say thing about something you don't like about something you've developed such a strong attachment to. Perhaps it so much a part of you, it feels as if i'm insulting you for being archaic, irrelevant and niche.
But you're shoehorning your preferences when giving the girl the most modern, safe and capable example of a firearm to start with (WHICH MOM ALREADY HAS!!), seems like the most neutral and beneficial idea. Don't try an form her to what YOU are, what YOU like, start her in the middle and she can branch from there, based on those "student ... likes" you talked about. Does she need a .22 bearcat? does she need to learn single action? does she need to know how to eject brass and reload individually?

Or maybe because mom owns a G42, she NEEDS to know how to rack a slide or just check the chamber. How to load a magazine, how to eject a magazine and how to take up slack in a Glock trigger?

Since you fail to see my point and seem to be willingly misreading and twisting my words into something that I did not mean or say..
I ask that you no longer respond to my posts..
Ever again as if I was on your ignore list. ..and I shall leave yours alone
Andy
Edit to add...
I really dislike your condescending tone it adds nothing to the thread or conversation

 

[arrowshooter]

You're best bet is going to be a .22 revolver because it slows down the actual shooting process plus they have less moving parts to jam removing potential frustration for a new shooter. There are a number of models out there, so pick what ever your budget desires. Also as mentioned, go over safety and fundamentals first. Y'all have fun!

 

[2506]

I bought a Ruger NM Vaquero with a 4-5/8" barrel in 45 Colt. Found some Cowboy Special brass, got some 160 gr cast bullets and Trail Boss, it was a perfect load for the kid. You can darn near see the rounds go down range.
I felt single action would be a great way to start, since it is slow to load and slow to fire—work on safety, fundamentals, etc
Over the years I increased the weight and charge to the point where we all shoot the same round now.

 

[WoodsPlinker]

Ever again

:O

This made me read a series of thread posts, never seen you upset before.

I get what you were trying to say, it's about fun, show the kid what you have available and let them pick what they wanna shoot.


Can't say I remember the fundamentals from when I went out as a kid, I just remember the fun I had.

I also remember what I wanted to shoot, and that my dad never offered to let me shoot it because I was "too young".

I have lots of that particular rifle in my collection now.... And I will ask, if I ever have kids.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Ruger MKII, III, IV etc. Dont listen to Andy. A cap and ball revolver isnt for everyone. Dang, i cant get the smilies to work...

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Im actually the worst guy to ask. I started out with a model 29-2 (yeah 44 magnum punk) when i was 14 (or so) and my moms taurus 38 special, then my cap and ball 44 cal. I had the most memorable fun with the cap and ball revolver. Id hike around the high desert of nevada and could shoot a lot with that pistol and it was inexpensive to shoot. I always tell everyone im a rifle shooter, but also grew up shooting a slew of pistols. When i was young, my dads buckmark never appealed to me. It stayed at home..

 

[Certaindeaf]

When you come down to it all of the "modern" firearms we use today are using technology that is pretty old.

• Metallic cartridges, lever action rifles, revolvers were invented in the mid 19th century.
• Smokeless powder, bolt action rifles, pump action long guns, and semiauto firearms were invented in the late 19th-early 20th century.
• "Assault rifles" were invented in the mid 20th century. The AK is a 70-year-old design and the AR-15 design is almost 60 years old.
• Even using polymer for pistol frames - which was just a change in materials, not a change in action or mechanism - dates back to the HK VP70 49 years ago. The Glock 17 has been in production for 37 years.

I wouldn't call any recently designed, new production firearm using any of the above technologies "archaic" or "obsolete". Firearms are not like cell phones or computers where even a 5 or 10-year-old model is antiquated.

Both this current production 8-shot .357 magnum revolver (web photo)

View attachment 605646

and this current production 8-shot .45ACP semiauto pistol (web photo)

View attachment 605647
use designs that are more than 100 years old. Now some plastic pistol fans might say both are antiqued designs but there is not much difference fundamentally between their polymer semiauto pistol and a 1911.

Until they come up with a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range all current firearm designs use old technology. The fact that some designs are even older than other old designs is splitting hairs.

As I posted earlier I expose new shooters to several different designs of firearms so they become familiar what is out there and they can form their own opinions as to what they prefer. More experience and knowledge is good. Learning how to load, operate, and unload revolvers, pistols, bolt action, lever action, and semiauto rifles isn't going to confuse or overwhelm them. It isn't rocket science.

PS - the above doesn't apply to Andy's black powder muzzle-loaders. Now those are antiquated.

Yeabut she could get tainted so best keep revolvers off of her radar just to be safe.


nr

 

[User 1234]

Oh for crying out loud. There is nothing wrong with starting someone with a revolver. It's not like they're never going to learn to shoot a semi-auto. Lighten up Francis.

And carrying a revolver is OK too, just so you know. I do occasionally and I've never burst into flames. This may come as a shock to you but I know how to reload it too.

Impossible, if you carry a 1911 or revolver the authorities scoop you up in an ambulance and deliver you to a nursing home with an newly-issued walker.

Plenty of GI's and Brits with "old" pistols shot Nazis who were carrying P-38s. Polymer striker fired guns have advantages and disadvantages compared to revolvers and "old" guns. But if I was the OP I would be disappointed that a bunch of us cranky men turned a thread about teaching new shooters into a thread about whose instruction policies and equipment preferences are superior.

 

[Flopsweat]

Since you fail to see my point and seem to be willingly misreading and twisting my words into something that I did not mean or say..
I ask that you no longer respond to my posts..
Ever again as if I was on your ignore list. ..and I shall leave yours alone
Andy
Edit to add...
I really dislike your condescending tone it adds nothing to the thread or conversation

This Brandon seems to be just arguing to win. Ironically, not the actions of a winner. Don't let him/her get to you. You're one of the most highly respected members of this forum, and not for winning arguments.