How bad is the firearms industry downturn?

[hoosierdome]

I'd like to see HPA pass if for no other reason then to add more manufactures to making suppressors, 600-800 $ for a threaded can filled with baffles is crazy, price should be around $200.00 or $300.00

 

[Glock Jock]

I have supported the firearms industry through some of it's worst times without fail. I'm ready for cheaper guns, .22 rounds and everything else I've been overpaying for. We earned it.

 

[Member 3687]

Well it looks like the next panic may be about to start with the decision from the 4 circuit stating that AR's are not protected under the 2nd Amendment. If I understand the decision it states basically the Heller case only states hand guns are protected so get your AR pistols now!

Link to the post

www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/bad-news-from-the-4th-circuit.238513

http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/141945A.P.pdf

 

[Brutus57]

3 things have recently affected my FA related purchases. Moving to a gun unfriendly state, the big T getting elected so we aren't likely to face immediate gunmageddon and we are saving for a house. For what it is costing me to unevil my EBRs I could have built another budget banger or got my Grendel or 300BLK upper. I am sure this is a Kommiefornia "intended consequence". See the bright orange color AR-15 Guns & Ammo magazine that recently came out.

That all being said...Here in NorCal the housing is cheap! Nice 3BR, 2 bath, built after Y2K with decent upgrades about 14-1700 sq feet. About $200K give or take 5 per cent. So we are looking at a house that fits us and has some sale value in a decade.....when we sell and move to Idaho. Lord willing and the creek don't rise between now and then. After the house, it's get the CCW, join a local range, Legion, SOJ51 mafia, etc.

Brutus Out

 

[Diamondback]

State of Jefferson--Make The Left Coast Great Again!

 

[PDX1953]

I would also like to add that the reasons you are having a hard time selling your AR15s is the requirement of background checks for private sales. Many law abiding people used to be more than happy to pay more than retail for a used gun to avoid big brother knowing what they own so you can thank the governor for that with a signature she cut value of your firearm collection to private buyers

Only Multnomah & Clackamas County Sheriffs are on board with this. WaCo Sheriff told me he'd rather have his Deputies doing police work vs. trying to figure out if the guy you're selling a gun to is a relative. Even the Lane County Board of Commissioners Floyd Prozanski's area) voted to not allocate any $$$ to enforcing the law.

 

[PDX1953]

I've been poor a number of times and I know that there is a point where you cannot make ends meet, much less have enough to buy a gun, not to mention save money for a rainy day, which they probably need more than a gun.

I know people who are not making ends meet now, not even close, because of circumstances beyond their control.

Shelter, food and health come first. When your (or your kids) medicine and doctor appts. costs $1K a month, your rent is $500+, your food is $200 a month, your car expenses are $100 a month to get to work, your utilities are $200 a month or more because you live in N. Dakota and it is cold, your income is $2K per month before taxes from working two jobs, and you are a single mother with a deadbeat ex., you can't afford a gun - you are not affording your basic living expenses.

You just keep racking up the debt.

When your 20 year old car breaks, you are screwed.

There are a lot of people in this position.

I started working at a company when I was 18 & left & my job was eliminated when I was 56. I started at $117 / week but worked my way up & left with a fat retirement & severance.

Many times during the early part of my career I was very broke and it was primarily due to a woman who'd couldn't control spending our money. The last car I bought her (she 'settled' on it) was an Acura & six months later as we drove past a Lexus dealership she started whining about wanting a new one. Something inside my head exploded & I realized it'd never end and I left. After that I was able to have a decent living & eventually moved into the upper-middle class pay range. I don't owe anyone a dime, have more income than expenses, ave money in a 401(k) and and in saving along with my 401(g) firearm collection. I expect that some day my sons will inherit them and if they desire to do sell sell them for a lot more than I paid.

Had HRC won I was prepared to sell my entire collection & move to Panama. I could live there very well on what I make and my guns probably would have brought more because she was in D.C. Darn Trump - he won & now I can't get the outrageous prices I might have.

 

[albin25]

On the positive side....
e.g...When an industry experiences a long period of being able to sell almost anything they produce without regard to quality or function, there is a tendency to get sloppy in product and service (Colt?, Remington?).
Shake outs and occasional hard times aren't necessarily bad things. Often they will drive innovation and production efficiencies.

 

[CoastRange57]

On the positive side....
e.g...When an industry experiences a long period of being able to sell almost anything they produce without regard to quality or function, there is a tendency to get sloppy in product and service (Colt?, Remington?).
Shake outs and occasional hard times aren't necessarily bad things. Often they will drive innovation and production efficiencies.

And then times get reasonably good again and everybody forgets how lousy it was during the hard times, and go back to the same behaviors and management styles they use before, spend money like crazy and act like it can never end again. I have seen it happen before and it will happen again.

In the contracting world, business is decent right now, so the contractors don't feel they need to call customers back or even make an attempt to run a decent business. Gun dealers and retailers get arrogant, customer service suffers and it is just a cycle. We are at the top of a good cycle right now, and there will be a down turn and everybody will be whining and complaining again, while they drive around in their jacked up pick ups, with $ 800 a month payments on them wondering where all their business went.

After you have been in business a while and get some gray hair you don't get so gdamn self assured. You treat your customers well, you manage you finances well and you plan for the down time. I had a business that had no debt in 2008, and by June 2009 we were out of business. When you have to get in your pickup and go see clients over a 3 state area and come back with nothing to show for it, and see how distressed every one else is as well, you get real humble real fast.

8 years later, after being down as low has I ever was, I have clawed my way back to a decent living and a strong financial position. I suspect that my business in working with distressed business's will be up ticking here in the next couple of years, and I will take some decent money off the table and finally retire forever and my only worry will be the water temperature in the Crooked River is on a given day.

 

[wired]

I keep hearing about people out of work looking for employment. I dont see it. At least in central Washington we have full employment and anyone who is qualified to work and who wants to work is working. Ive been trying to hire mechanics and electricians for a year and a half and all I get are boobs, alcoholics and people who's only fabrication experience is when they fabricated their resume'.

 

[CoastRange57]

Ive been trying to hire mechanics and electricians for a year and a half and all I get are boobs, alcoholics and people who's only fabrication experience is when they fabricated their resume'.

Those are decent paying jobs. The numbers of people entering the trades has been dropping over the years, and you can expect to see it drop even more are they all become some kind computer office drones, and then people wonder why the trades are the way they are. Good trades people are all working and you are seeing the dregs who cannot make it to work on time, piss clean for 45 days, and can live without drinking a half rack every night.

 

[fxdl]

@fxdl I think Palmetto's had some just-add-lower AR kits for below $400 recently.

I just bought a Palmetto lower for $149, complete. I then added their stainless upper with free floating hand guard for $269 and a nickel bolt and charging handle for $109 from them. Done! Very happy, nice and tight way better than the S&W Sport II I wasted $ on.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Maybe customer service will improve; if the products don't bring people in, good CS might.

In the past, it seemed as though a call to the gun manufacturers was the best way to get help, not any more.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I found a Glock in my box of cereal this morning.
happy day true story

 

[Libertas7]

I found a Glock in my box of cereal this morning.
happy day true story

So the cereal companies are trying to poison us now?

 

[RVTECH]

I keep hearing about people out of work looking for employment. I dont see it. At least in central Washington we have full employment and anyone who is qualified to work and who wants to work is working. Ive been trying to hire mechanics and electricians for a year and a half and all I get are boobs, alcoholics and people who's only fabrication experience is when they fabricated their resume'.

Same here - heck all the 'Help Wanted' signs in town are tattered and falling down. Literally the only applicants we get for any open positions we have are people who are are most likely not going to be hired ANYWHERE - and for similar reasons as you stated and I would like to add PERSONAL APPEARANCE is at an all time low also.

 

[wired]

Same here - heck all the 'Help Wanted' signs in town are tattered and falling down. Literally the only applicants we get for any open positions we have are people who are are most likely not going to be hired ANYWHERE - and for similar reasons as you stated and I would like to add PERSONAL APPEARANCE is at an all time low also.

Yeah, I got two resume's for electricians on my desk this morning. By the time I called them they had already found jobs.
I keep hearing from Trump how they are going to hire 5000 border agents. Last time they tried hiring a few thousand they gave up during the process because no one wanted to apply for the positions or couldnt pass the background check/polygraph. Good luck this time around as in not going to happen. Unemployment for those able and willing to work probably is under 5% nationwide and even tighter in Washington state. Much tighter than that and all its going to do is drive wages and inflation up. There are more people out there who don't want to work, are retired or are students etc. and they get counted in some job estimates for those trying to make a political point that doesnt hold water.

 

[Alexx1401]

Same here - heck all the 'Help Wanted' signs in town are tattered and falling down. Literally the only applicants we get for any open positions we have are people who are are most likely not going to be hired ANYWHERE - and for similar reasons as you stated and I would like to add PERSONAL APPEARANCE is at an all time low also.

Public education has the blame for a lot of this. For over 20 or so years I've been seeing an amazing number of applications from people who are almost illiterate yet they have a diploma. They are also taught all their life how important they are and how they are owed. It's why they walk in with pants hanging off butt, hat on backwards.They don't know what the bill of a cap is for. Holes punched in face to look nice. After they prove they can't read and write they then start telling you how lucky you would be to have them. So lucky you would of course only expect them to come to work now and then if it did not get in the way. After all they have important crap to do and can't be expected to just show up for work when you want them too. Then when they can't get hired they become "victims" and need Government help. In other words they want my money. Many gun owners even support this saying if we don't pay them to do nothing they will turn to crime.

 

[Diamondback]

And then on the other side of the coin every so often you have an extreme-outlier case like mine--no resume or history because of having had to spend my post-college adult life as my mother's live-in caregiver/housekeeper, and what employment I have had... well, freelance services don't translate well to "conventional resume"--at 36 I'm looked at as stale meat even though all I ask is the same opportunity to prove myself as any other entry-level rookie. If that means starting with sweeping floors and stocking shelves through a probationary period, then as long as OJT is included to help me learn the business, and we can work around the limits of bus schedules restricting schedules, hand me that broom! (And maybe a back brace...)

I mean, if Aero had an opening for a lower assembler, and were OK with my CPL and I had a carpool in/out (bad part of Tacoma, not the kind of place you wanna be waiting on a bus especially after sunset) I'd be happy as a clam even at minimum wage...

 

[Alexx1401]

And then on the other side of the coin every so often you have an extreme-outlier case like mine--no resume or history because of having had to spend my post-college adult life as my mother's live-in caregiver/housekeeper, and what employment I have had... well, freelance services don't translate well to "conventional resume"--at 36 I'm looked at as stale meat even though all I ask is the same opportunity to prove myself as any other entry-level rookie. If that means starting with sweeping floors and stocking shelves through a probationary period, then as long as OJT is included to help me learn the business, and we can work around the limits of bus schedules restricting schedules, hand me that broom! (And maybe a back brace...)

I mean, if Aero had an opening for a lower assembler, and were OK with my CPL and I had a carpool in/out (bad part of Tacoma, not the kind of place you wanna be waiting on a bus especially after sunset) I'd be happy as a clam even at minimum wage...

Because I was a waste of time in school my whole work career was like this. Have changed work trades a few times. Each time starting out at the entry. What I had going for me was I did not show up late, sloppy, and disinterested to the interview. When offered a job I did it the best I could and did not only show up if I did not have a hangover. Several times if I felt the place was going no where for me I left. I would make sure I had another lined up before I told them to shove it though. I have tried to warn many of this over the years. Some listened, many did not. When working with someone who is unhappy I always tell them. Best time to look for a new job is while you still have one. When training / school opportunity came along in life I jumped on it. It did not take me long in the working world to learn that my attitude when I was forced to go to school was not going to work in the work world.