Got any plans for the Pistol Brace apocalypse?

[Member 53328]

We all pick our own battles. And draw our own lines on what we will/will not do/follow. I'll take a misdemeanor all day. I'm not going to war with the federal government over a piece of plastic.

 

[Kruel J]

MYOFB usually works too.

 

[sobo]

If it's a 2000 Si in Electron Blue it sure as hell does.

Wunnadeeze?

 

[Kruel J]

Wunnadeeze?

View attachment 1316784

Ah….so nice. So easy and simple to work on. And quick too.

 

[wired]

FRTs only fire one round per function of the trigger. They should be completely legal by the plain reading of the law. If the ATF doesn't like it they don't get to just make up a new twisted interpretation of whatever they feel like. Congress passes laws, ATF can only enforce them.

I feel the need to point out that the only historical reason we have SBR/SBS laws is because congress tried to ban all handguns and then, when the backlash was too great, reversed their decision but neglected to remove the short barreled language meant to prevent people from turning long guns into hand guns to circumvent their handgun ban.

Unfortunately, the ATF IS the one enforcing and interpreting the laws. The FRT, and Ive owned many and know how they operate and how to tune them, would be legally fine if it weren't for the automatic trigger release by the bolt carrier. The ATF considers that an automatic function as trigger tension is never actually released by the shooter. Rea;lly and truly. You can argue otherwise but that argument doesn't seem to be gaining any legal traction now does it? The ATF is actively confiscating them and Rare Breed has been shut down and many retailers raided and their records confiscated.

Pointing out the origin of SBR's doesn't change the fact the ATF can and does successfully prosecute illegal SBR possession to this day.

 

[Member 53328]

Wunnadeeze?

View attachment 1316784

That brings back memories. I was more of an integra b18/vtec guy until I upgraded to a wrx/Sti. Now I just drive a boring work truck. Haha.

 

[Heyjoe]

That may be true. I just got a SBR so I don't have to worry about it now.

Fair enough.

 

[Kruel J]

Unfortunately, the ATF IS the one enforcing and interpreting the laws. The FRT, and Ive owned many and know how they operate and how to tune them, would be legally fine if it weren't for the automatic trigger release by the bolt carrier. The ATF considers that an automatic function as trigger tension is never actually released by the shooter. Rea;lly and truly. You can argue otherwise but that argument doesn't seem to be gaining any legal traction now does it? The ATF is actively confiscating them and Rare Breed has been shut down and many retailers raided and their records confiscated.

Pointing out the origin of SBR's doesn't change the fact the ATF can and does successfully prosecute illegal SBR possession to this day.

Yeah……the FRT was not just toeing the line……

 

[mhayd93]

Unfortunately, the ATF IS the one enforcing and interpreting the laws. The FRT, and Ive owned many and know how they operate and how to tune them, would be legally fine if it weren't for the automatic trigger release by the bolt carrier. The ATF considers that an automatic function as trigger tension is never actually released by the shooter. Rea;lly and truly. You can argue otherwise but that argument doesn't seem to be gaining any legal traction now does it? The ATF is actively confiscating them and Rare Breed has been shut down and many retailers raided and their records confiscated.

Pointing out the origin of SBR's doesn't change the fact the ATF can and does successfully prosecute illegal SBR possession to this day.

Only one round is being fired for each single function of the trigger. The ATF probably doesn't even know what the codified definition of a machine gun actually is at this point.

 

[wired]

Only one round is being fired for each single function of the trigger. The ATF probably doesn't even know what the codified definition of a machine gun actually is at this point.

Again, how is that argument holding up in the real world?

 

[mhayd93]

Again, how is that argument holding up in the real world?

On one hand you make it seem like the ATF is just following the letter of the law (pistol braces), but then when they clearly aren't, you just default to the old "well that's what they're doing so oh well" mentality.

Thank god this isn't what the average Colonial American was like back in the 18th century! Standing for nothing, accepting all government infringement with not even so much as a whimper.

Someone already mentioned though, Stockholm Syndrome has found it's home in you

 

[wired]

On one hand you make it seem like the ATF is just following the letter of the law (pistol braces), but then when they clearly aren't, you just default to the old "well that's what they're doing so oh well" mentality.

Thank god this isn't what the average Colonial American was like back in the 18th century! Standing for nothing, accepting all government infringement with not even so much as a whimper.

Someone already mentioned though, Stockholm Syndrome has found it's home in you

Laws are open to interpretation. What WV v EPV EA did and what a LOT of people gloss over is that the courts took decision making on rule questions out of the hands of the agencies and put it back in the courts wheelhouse. Where it belongs. The FRT question has not been fully adjudicated but its clearly losing at every junction so far. Tension is never released so it can and has been successfully argued that the FRT is NOT using a single function of the trigger and that the mechanism is automatically releasing the trigger/hammer.

Im a realist. Said it a million times and I try to be intellectually honest . Virtue signaling is for the birds. The FRT is going to fail in court. I enjoyed its run while I could.

I love how people get into armchair psychology. Its so quaint.

 

[mhayd93]

Laws are open to interpretation. What WV v EPV EA did and what a LOT of people gloss over is that the courts took decision making on rule questions out of the hands of the agencies and put it back in the courts wheelhouse. Where it belongs. The FRT question has not been fully adjudicated but its clearly losing at every junction so far. Tension is never released so it can and has been successfully argued that the FRT is NOT using a single function of the trigger and that the mechanism is automatically releasing the trigger/hammer.

Im a realist. Said it a million times and I try to be intellectually honest . Virtue signaling is for the birds. The FRT is going to fail in court. I enjoyed its run while I could.

I love how people get into armchair psychology. Its so quaint.

Being a realist and acknowledging that the ATF is clearly wrong are not mutually exclusive.

You put way too much stock into what the courts say when, historically, courts have often let unconstitutional (and sometimes inhumane) laws and policies stay in effect.

It's okay to continue challenging and fighting unjust laws, while still being a realist and abiding by them in the meantime. It's this concept that you really seem to struggle with, and so you end up like a broken record on any of these threads involving the ATF.

 

[Yarome]

The one argument I always get a kick out of from the pro NFA, pro tax stamp, pro 2A infringment folks it that the alphabet didn't have the authority to "change the law" to include braces in the first place, so "undoing" their mistake by changing the law back maks perfect sense and well within their authority to correct their first mistake.

It was well within their authority to make a determination... at the time. They were not a common use item and there was much gray area with regard to what the law said and what had already been peviously allowed for use for the disabled. As much as the agency shouldn't exist in the first place (or the NFA), it was still within their authority granted them by congress... at that time.

Fast forward... now they do not. The scope of the rule is now beyond their authority since braces are NOW "in common use" and represent a large economic impact. That's the whole point of the EPA determination. Scope and impact. The conditions changed and the "new rule" falls outside of their authority.

I'm not going to debate that braces haven't been "abused" to a degree from their original intended purpose, but saying.. "oops", we made a mistake way back when and we're just undoing it doesn't fly. Common use items are protected. Period.

How or why, dangerous or not, debates aside... to "correct" their mistake... now... requires congressional action to ammend the law.

That's the whole point. They can't stuff the genie back in the bottle under their own authority and they can not impose NFA regulations without changing the law to include braces and other stabilization devices. End of story....

 

[Kruel J]

They did it with bump stocks. .gov that is.

 

[Yarome]

They did it with bump stocks. .gov that is.

True. But I dunno if bump stocks would be considered "in common use" when you might be talking 1000's of em(?) vs. double digit millions.(?)

 

[WeaponizedMRE]

Affirmative.

Along with many others. And I see cans, SBRs, cool toys all the time.

You don't have an atf form 5320.20 filed for when you do this? Tisk tisk

 

[Tony617]

Not really, if you buy a new 2026 car it will be paid for by yourself, sober or not

So what if the breathalyzer malfunctions and if you have not been drinking you are SOL? Since your car will not start right? Or will law enforcement be called the they have keycard that overrides the breathalyzer circuit so you can drive home. Makes it difficult if you are a long road trip and breathalyzer malfunctions in the middle of your trip.

 

[billdeserthills]

So what if the breathalyzer malfunctions and if you have not been drinking you are SOL? Since your car will not start right? Or will law enforcement be called the they have keycard that overrides the breathalyzer circuit so you can drive home. Makes it difficult if you are a long road trip and breathalyzer malfunctions in the middle of your trip.

Don't worry, by 2026 Biden could be long dead--
Of course that won't solve your car troubles

 

[billdeserthills]

Exactly. So just take the brace off. You still have the pistol. IF the ATF goes that route.

I have spent hundreds on the many braces I own & that was with the ATF's approval--those bastards can suck it, I'm not getting rid of my toys. I bought this stuff when it was legal & I'm keeping it