Got any plans for the Pistol Brace apocalypse?

[billdeserthills]

True. But I dunno if bump stocks would be considered "in common use" when you might be talking 1000's of em(?) vs. double digit millions.(?)

Most of my AR's have bump stocks so they are in 'common use'-- at least at my house-- Suck on that ATF

 

[wired]

Being a realist and acknowledging that the ATF is clearly wrong are not mutually exclusive.

You put way too much stock into what the courts say when, historically, courts have often let unconstitutional (and sometimes inhumane) laws and policies stay in effect.

It's okay to continue challenging and fighting unjust laws, while still being a realist and abiding by them in the meantime. It's this concept that you really seem to struggle with, and so you end up like a broken record on any of these threads involving the ATF.

You assume I have faith that the courts will do the right thing. I do not. I assume they will side with the ATF 100% of the time. That's why I consider this brace argument to be futile. It's just going to go back to the way it was pre SIG brace and there really isn't anything short of a black letter law that's going to change that. I don't see Congress passing said law nor do I see ANY president signing off on that kind of hot potato. Until that happens it's more than likely going to go back to braces being what they are in practice which are ,let's be real here, thinly disguised buttstocks subject to the NFA.

 

[Yarome]

You assume I have faith that the courts will do the right thing. I do not. I assume they will side with the ATF 100% of the time. That's why I consider this brace argument to be futile. It's just going to go back to the way it was pre SIG brace and there really isn't anything short of a black letter law that's going to change that. I don't see Congress passing said law nor do I see ANY president signing off on that kind of hot potato. Until that happens it's more than likely going to go back to braces being what they are in practice which are ,let's be real here, thinly disguised buttstocks subject to the NFA.

The flaw in that being that they wouldn't be "going back" to what they were. They were never butstocks redefined as "braces" or "stabilizers". They where what the are... and the alphabet only confirmed them to "not be" buttstocks.

This "going back to how they were previously defined... a buttstock" argument has been spewed out over and over, but it still remains completely inaccurate. All that is happening is the alphabet wanting to negate a previous determination and redefine a now "in common use" item to be reclassified. Unfortunately... that item now falls outside of their authority and will face legal challenges for overstepping.

Call it splitting hairs, but let's at least try and be factual when arguing in support of more illegal infringments.

 

[wired]

The flaw in that being that they wouldn't be "going back" to what they were. They were never butstocks redefined as "braces" or "stabilizers". They where what the are... and the alphabet only confirmed them to "not be" buttstocks.

This "going back to how they were previously defined... a buttstock" argument has been spewed out over and over, but it still remains completely inaccurate. All that is happening is the alphabet wanting to negate a previous determination and redefine a now "in common use" item to be reclassified. Unfortunately... that item now falls outside of their authority and will face legal challenges for overstepping.

Call it splitting hairs, but let's at least try and be factual when arguing in support of more illegal infringments.

Hows that argument working for you? Until the courts weigh in on it you have your opinion and the ATF has their opinion. Which one implements the enforcement of the law? I dont like it either but my liking something and a quarter wont even get me a cup of coffee. It will make it to the courts and the "common use" argument will be tested. I dont see it going anywhere in the courts but once again. My opinion.

 

[PiratePast40]

The issue is that they screwed up in the first place. No laws changed. All this stuff about agencies not being allowed to make rules (BS BTW) applies to the ATF right? Yeah. The brace debacle is a direct result of an ATF rule change 10 years ago. They did not have the authority to do it then either.

We get it. You don't like the fact that many haven't paid tax and you're angry that you have been paying it. You've done many good things for this forum. Please slow down repeating the same complaint over and over again. It's not helping.

In any case, none of this matters until we actually see what the ATF decides to do.

 

[wired]

We get it. You don't like the fact that many haven't paid tax and you're angry that you have been paying it. You've done many good things for this forum. Please slow down repeating the same complaint over and over again. It's not helping.

I keep repeating the same thing because nothings changed. Wishful thinking isn't my forte'. Im not angry about paying for tax stamps at all. Big deal its $200.

It may come as a surprise but I go out of my way to stay out of jail.

 

[Yarome]

Hows that argument working for you? Until the courts weigh in on it you have your opinion and the ATF has their opinion. Which one implements the enforcement of the law? I dont like it either but my liking something and a quarter wont even get me a cup of coffee. It will make it to the courts and the "common use" argument will be tested. I dont see it going anywhere in the courts but once again. My opinion.

No idea what you're asking or what point you're trying to make with that....

The alphabet can announce new laws. They can be unconstitutional. They can be outside their authority to make... they care not and they can still put it on the books.

Those new rules can be challenged and the courts will determine their actual legality. I highly doubt the courts will ask or consider my opinion and legal is legal and unconstitutional is unconstitutional. That shtuff is based in law, not opinions.

Soo... what's your point again...???

That the alphabet has the same authority to make and change laws as the legislative branch of the gooberment??

I'm lost......

 

[PiratePast40]

I keep repeating the same thing because nothings changed. Wishful thinking isn't my forte'. Im not angry about paying for tax stamps at all. Big deal its $200.

It may come as a surprise but I go out of my way to stay out of jail.

If you're going to keep repeating the same thing, how about repeating that we need donations to help the legal fight against 114. It's a national issue with national funding, and a harbinger of things to come, not just in Oregon but across the nation. We also need people, across the nation, to be writing the Oregon attorney general and governor, and letting them know that we the people are not going to put up with these unconstitutional attacks against our rights.

I appreciate that you have an opinion, that you are a contributor to the firearms community, and that you aren't afraid to speak up. It's just that right now, we need people like you in a larger role.

 

[wired]

No idea what you're asking or what point you're trying to make with that....

The alphabet can announce new laws. They can be unconstitutional. They can be outside their authority to make... they care not and they can still put it on the books.

Those new rules can be challenged and the courts will determine their actual legality. I highly doubt the courts will ask or consider my opinion and legal is legal and unconstitutional is unconstitutional. That shtuff is based in law, not opinions.

Soo... what's your point again...???

That the alphabet has the same authority to make and change laws as the legislative branch of the gooberment??

I'm lost......

Courts dont issue laws . Courts issue opinions. "Unconstitutional" is what the courts determine to be unconstitutional based on their opinions. I'm sure we'll go round and round on this . Have you ever read ATF opinion letters? Theyre interesting. Its a whole bunch of citing which law they are basing their opinion on and then an answer at the end. WV v EPA didn't change letting agencies rule on minor issues based on law it just changed the way some agencies were trying to make major rulings outside of the law. It would be like if the ATF tried to implement the '68 GCA without Congress having passed a law to that effect. Yes the brace thing will get challenged in court . Maybe it will get thrown out but to do that will require a major rewriting of the '68 GCA and the NFA which I dont see happening and quite frankly I dont want either of them touched. Sleeping dogs and all. The "common use' argument has not been tested . Putting all your eggs in that basket isnt going to get you much. I have been wrong many times before.

If you're going to keep repeating the same thing, how about repeating that we need donations to help the legal fight against 114. It's a national issue with national funding, and a harbinger of things to come, not just in Oregon but across the nation. We also need people, across the nation, to be writing the Oregon attorney general and governor, and letting them know that we the people are not going to put up with these unconstitutional attacks against our rights.

I appreciate that you have an opinion, that you are a contributor to the firearms community, and that you aren't afraid to speak up. It's just that right now, we need people like you in a larger role.

I think there probably a lot of stuff we agree on . One thing in particular in that the misguided citizens of Oregon will be dealt a major blow here very soon when 114 is struck down probably before the end of the year . I escaped the west coast a few years ago and while I may go to visit my family some day you can have it.

 

[Yarome]

I keep repeating the same thing because nothings changed. Wishful thinking isn't my forte'. Im not angry about paying for tax stamps at all. Big deal its $200.

It may come as a surprise but I go out of my way to stay out of jail.

Yup... you've beat that horse to death many times over too. Anyone that doesn't happily comply without challenge, pay their tax stamp and SBR their pistols are all going to jail for 10 years or be forced to flee to a non-extradition country for the rest of their lives... like several of you close buddies.

We get it and it's not necessary or your reponsibility to try and beat some sense into us.

Please respect the fact that not all agree with your final judgement for all on the matter and continue to discuss and fight against the upcoming infringment.

Just sayin.....

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I

If it's a 2000 Si in Electron Blue it sure as hell does. Quality examples sell for upwards of $50k.

Imo you would have to be completely retarded to pay $50k for that. You could get one of these with low mileage for about half that (along with tons of way nicer cars, again for half that money).


Or to stick with Japanese fun cars you could again get a 2021 one of these for half that money. Spending $50k on that Honda you would have to be a blithering idiot IMO.

 

[Yarome]

Kruel J said:
If it's a 2000 Si in Electron Blue it sure as hell does. Quality examples sell for upwards of $50k.

Imo you would have to be completely retarded to pay $50k for that. You could get one of these with low mileage for about half that (along with tons of way nicer cars, again for half that money).

View attachment 1316998
Or to stick with Japanese fun cars you could again get a 2021 one of these for half that money. Spending $50k on that Honda you would have to be a blithering idiot IMO.

View attachment 1317000

I'm saving this to the thread for when he realizes he mis-posted and tries to delete it.

You're welcome!

 

[PiratePast40]

... I think there probably a lot of stuff we agree on . One thing in particular in that the misguided citizens of Oregon will be dealt a major blow here very soon when 114 is struck down probably before the end of the year . I escaped the west coast a few years ago and while I may go to visit my family some day you can have it.

It sounds like you're saying "screw Oregon". Please tell me that isn't so and that you will contribute in some way in the fight against this monstrosity. You can tell ten others about the fight and how we need financial assistance for lawyers. You can contribute twenty dollars to the OFF Educational Foundation, or any organization engaged in the fight. Please commit to joining the fight in some way instead of just standing there with a cloak of righteousness.

 

[Kruel J]

I'm saving this to the thread for when he realizes he mis-posted and tries to delete it.

You're welcome!

A 2000 Honda Civic Si just sold for $50,000 at Bring a Trailer

Values for old Hondas continue on an upward trajectory. This 2000 Honda Civic Si is just one more example of the desire for these cars.

www.autoblog.com

What mispost?

 

[Rkangel]

When you have to ask permission from the government to exercise a right, it is no longer a right.

The Colorado shooting is playing all the strings the left loves to pluck. And they are running with it. If Brandon pushes through an AWB, all the wishful thinking of the tax stamps and SBRs will mean jack. There will be no protection or guarantee that you will be able to continue to possess an SBR just because you paid your $200. Tax stamps have never been a contract. They are a penalty in which you have handed the thieves the keys to your safe in the hope that they won't evetually rob you blind. Sooner or later tyranny will make everything illegal and we will left with the same three choices every society has faced when threatened by despotism:. Surrender, Flee, or Fight.

History is filled with good people who have been imprisoned by tyrants who have made it "legal" persecute their opposition. To think that defending rights and freedom won't involve sacrifice and pain, is wishful thinking.

 

[wired]

It sounds like you're saying "screw Oregon". Please tell me that isn't so and that you will contribute in some way in the fight against this monstrosity. You can tell ten others about the fight and how we need financial assistance for lawyers. You can contribute twenty dollars to the OFF Educational Foundation, or any organization engaged in the fight. Please commit to joining the fight in some way instead of just standing there with a cloak of righteousness.

If youre in a position to plan an exit strategy it might be a good time to consider it.

 

[PiratePast40]

If youre in a position to plan an exit strategy it might be a good time to consider it.

Wow, I did not see that coming. At the very least, your response is disappointing.

 

[wired]

Wow, I did not see that coming. At the very least, your response is disappointing.

It aint gonna get any better. The Bay area got too expensive and forced the poorer of the Caifornia progressives up to the next cheapest closest city Portland. You got a lost cause. Get out while the gettin's good.

 

[PiratePast40]

It aint gonna get any better. The Bay area got too expensive and forced the poorer of the Caifornia progressives up to the next cheapest closest city Portland. You got a lost cause. Get out while the gettin's good.

You seem to be avoiding the issue so let's be clear. Are you saying that you're not taking any of the steps suggested to help out the defense against 114, even though it's a national issue? Will you take any action to help in the fight against 114?

 

[wired]

You seem to be avoiding the issue so let's be clear. Are you saying that you're not taking any of the steps suggested to help out the defense against 114, even though it's a national issue? Will you take any action to help in the fight against 114?

Its not a national issue at all. You Oregonians voted it in. It wont survive the first pass in from of a magistrate but it is a states right to govern themselves issue. Wouldnt ever happen where I live. I cannot put into words how much I loathe Oregon.