Fatal Bear Attack Follow-up

[Andy54Hawken]

As for carrying without a round chambered...

I can not speak for other folks but , when I am carrying , I will have a round chambered or be capped or primed...
If while out hunting and crossing dangerous terrain , I will remove the round from the chamber or un-cap / un-prime...And re-chamber or cap / prime , when safe to do so.
If my carry pistol its in a safe , rugged holster , I'd wouldn't worry over much 'bout it....
Andy

 

[Mikej]

Is it illegal for a hunter during bow season, in Wyoming, to carry a bear gun?

 

[41mag]

another question beyond reason, IMO is that the 'client' seemed to have no familiarity with how the Glock functioned;

plenty of 'bench racing' here comfortably separated from our own in-person opportunity to make a host of uncatalogued errors in judgement

 

[Mikej]

ANYONE going into back country wilderness, grizz territory, should carry and know how to use a gun. Common sense, no?

 

[11Charlie]

Is it illegal for a hunter during bow season, in Wyoming, to carry a bear gun?

Very good question.

 

[orygun]

Is it illegal for a hunter during bow season, in Wyoming, to carry a bear gun?

For years in Oregon the archer could not be armed with a firearm, but that was changed to allow a defense handgun. No clue what Wyoming says.

ANYONE going into back country wilderness, grizz territory, should carry and know how to use a gun. Common sense, no?

For sure! And carry a gun capable of doing the job. For ages the typical "field gun" was a 22 handgun. While still applicable in certain areas and uses, I wouldn't consider carrying one as my only firearm on a backwoods trip.
I usually don't carry a sidearm when hunting with a rifle, but any other trip out and I have one, even though I've only seen a couple of bears up by our place. One ran like hell in the other direction and the other didn't seem to have a clue I was there and ambled on by about 100 yards away. I don't have much reason for concern about the bears, but I don't go unprepared. What I'm more concerned with are the cats. I'm usually out skulking around in the wee hours of the day, so I keep my head on a swivel and a round in the chamber. When gutting an animal alone, the rifle is leaning on the carcass or right beside me. If there's two of us, one works, the other keeps their ears and eyes open. Where I gutted my first elk (alone) was only a few hundred yards from where the landowner shot a cougar that had apparently been trailing him and bears had been seen in the area. Yeah, I was a little edgy. My '06 wasn't 3 feet away at any time.

 

[clearconscience]

$207k raised for the guide?!

I'm sorry but they made every mistake possible.
They ignored the safety protocols and they paid the price. Who goes into grizzly country and doesn't carry bear spray and a sidearm?!
Each!

And to not have one person looking out and the other doing the work is stupid.

That guy from florida shouldn't have been in the woods with no knowledge of firearms.

City folks don't belong in the woods.

 

[clearconscience]

To me that is crazy! Then why carry?

My guess would be sheer incompetence.
He probably got complacent and forgot to chamber a round.

 

[DirectDrive]

Sorry for the guide and condolences to his family.
If blame is to be placed, it should fall completely on this guide.
So many errors and oversights.

Sounds like the client was a greenhorn from Florida and it's no wonder that he was not able to help fend off the attack.
Sad story, but it's packed with lessons for those that follow.

 

[Capn Jack]

After only seeing bears from my boat, in the zoo, or in the movies, I was amazed the first time I saw one run.

 

[ma96782]

In this situation, no cartridge in the chamber? So the guide didn't feel comfortable carrying the pistol with a cartridge in the chamber? Then he left it some distance away from both of them while butchering the elk - probably the most vulnerable and risky time?

Plainly bad decisions on the part of the guide.

Revolver or a semi-auto that one feels safe carrying one in the chamber with. In that situation I would carry a Glock with one in the chamber, but I prefer my SA/DA SIGs - one in the chamber with the hammer down, then a DA pull on the first shot, SA thereafter. For dangerous animal protection, I might prefer my 329PD with heavy loads.

Well....to tell you the truth. It just reminded myself..... about how some people like to set up their revolver so that the first D/A pull would land on an empty chamber. You know for safety.



I hope that a "professional guide" wouldn't be so ________.

LOL.....but, since the Govt is involved. I could imagine, that OSHA might just require the carrying of a revolver in that condition. Rrrright.......for SAFETY.



Aloha, Mark

 

[tac]

If they made a .500 S&W calibre semi-auto, I'd have three. One on each hip and another handy around my neck. I might have one in each hand, too.

 

[bbbass]

The best course of action, where bears are concerned, is to settle down on your towel with a good book and a nice drinky, preferably on Miami Beach.

AFAIK, there are no bears there.

Yep, safe as can be...

 

[DirectDrive]

My guess would be sheer incompetence.
He probably got complacent and forgot to chamber a round.

IMO, anyone who carries with no round chambered is simply not comfortable with firearms or that firearm.
The Glock, without an external safety could intimidate a non-gun person.
Since these were bow and arrow people, that could have been the case.

 

[snarlingdog]

Hands down if your a guide dont assume your client knows anything about your gear that will save you from a bear. This is so irresponsible on the guides part. And I dont see how old the hunter was?

 

[clearconscience]

After only seeing bears from my boat, in the zoo, or in the movies, I was amazed the first time I saw one run.

The first time I saw a grizzly was in the Columbus zoo last year.

I was frozen in awe for a few minutes at the shear size of that bears head, let alone his paws and overall size.

If I can spend the rest of my life never going into grizzly country I'll be happy.

If I have to it will be as Tac suggests. Only I'll add rule 3 for a gunfight, bring friends with guns

 

[DirectDrive]

Hands down if your a guide dont assume your client knows anything about your gear that will save you from a bear. This is so irresponsible on the guides part. And I dont see how old the hunter was?

Early or mid-thirties if I recall.

 

[bbbass]

Rifle season or not, the 2nd person really should have been standing guard with a bear-calibre rifle. If neither was comfy with firearms, then they should have brought someone that was!!

Familiarity breeds

Hands down if your a guide dont assume your client knows anything about your gear that will save you from a bear. This is so irresponsible on the guides part.

He paid the price, but the client could have paid also.

 

[The Heretic]

The first time I saw a grizzly was in the Columbus zoo last year.

I was frozen in awe for a few minutes at the shear size of that bears head, let alone his paws and overall size.

If I can spend the rest of my life never going into grizzly country I'll be happy.

If I have to it will be as Tac suggests. Only I'll add rule 3 for a gunfight, bring friends with guns

After college I landed a job where I was sent various remote places to setup and test transmitter sites. Three or four places in Montana, Fairbanks, Ketchikan and Anchorage in Alaska. On my off time (which wasn't much) I visited some outdoors scenery, including Denali park and the Kenai Peninsula. I saw some wildlife - mostly moose (which kill and injure more people than bears do). I have visited GNP, parts of northern Idaho, eastern WA and the Cascades from the Canadian border down to the California border. I have hunted all over WA and OR for decades, hiked and camped and rode motorcycles here and there.

I have never seen a bear of any kind in the wild.

On the Kenai I saw both brown and black bear tracks, but no bears. I have bears on my property, and cougars - I've never seen them, but others have and I have seen the tracks and spoor. They are out there, but generally they don't bother humans - it is rare that they do, but when we do we hear about it and then everybody wants to know what the best bear spray/gun/protection is.

More people die from bee stings than from snake bite, but a lot of people carry "snake bite kits" where there are snakes, not so many carry an Epi pen even if allergic to insect bites.

More people die or are injured from encounters with moose than bears, and yet more die or are injured from dog attacks than both of those together.

In Africa more people die from encounters with hippos than lion attacks, but people are more afraid of lions.

 

[bbbass]

After college I landed a job where I was sent various remote places to setup and test transmitter sites. Three or four places in Montana, Fairbanks, Ketchikan and Anchorage in Alaska. On my off time (which wasn't much) I visited some outdoors scenery, including Denali park and the Kenai Peninsula. I saw some wildlife - mostly moose (which kill and injure more people than bears do). I have visited GNP, parts of northern Idaho, eastern WA and the Cascades from the Canadian border down to the California border. I have hunted all over WA and OR for decades, hiked and camped and rode motorcycles here and there.

I have never seen a bear of any kind in the wild.

On the Kenai I saw both brown and black bear tracks, but no bears. I have bears on my property, and cougars - I've never seen them, but others have and I have seen the tracks and spoor. They are out there, but generally they don't bother humans - it is rare that they do, but when we do we hear about it and then everybody wants to know what the best bear spray/gun/protection is.

More people die from bee stings than from snake bite, but a lot of people carry "snake bite kits" where there are snakes, not so many carry an Epi pen even if allergic to insect bites.

More people die or are injured from encounters with moose than bears, and yet more die or are injured from dog attacks than both of those together.

In Africa more people die from encounters with hippos than lion attacks, but people are more afraid of lions.

Mmmmm, I've had to look hard to see a bear in the wild... but did manage to get a look at three black bear over the years. Two were moving fast near or across a road, and one was on a riverbank.

Although they may no generally seek confrontation with humans, according to history sh!t happens. People encounter bears unexpectedly or bears come into camp for food. Sometimes these encounters are violent, it only makes sense to be prepared... like I would be in any situation. (Remember the Coast Guard motto?)

Best bear protection is whatever works. This can vary situation by situation.

People die or are injured by moose/car interface more often than moose attacks. Speaking of moose sightings, I've seen more in yards in Wasilla than in the wild.

Dog attacks... when walking we carry protection from aggressive dogs too... been there with Rottweiler, German Shepard, and Pit Bull.

Hippos... the locals know to be more afraid than of lions... stupid tourists don't.