Effective game killing, shot placement and more...

[osprey]

I can't really say how long the heart keeps beating or how long the circulatory system stays pressurized as it is not my area of expertise. However, I can say the 8-10 animals I have stuck whether immediately or 10 minutes after shot, gush blood out their new orifice and show markedly less blood in the gut cavity. Before I stick them I also try and orient them head downhill to let gravity help and maybe it works somewhat like a siphon effect? Try it and see if it works for yourself!

 

[DLS]

Unless the shot goes behind the diaphragm, or causes a tear in the diaphragm, there should not be any blood in the gut cavity.

 

[pharmseller]

I can't really say how long the heart keeps beating or how long the circulatory system stays pressurized as it is not my area of expertise. However, I can say the 8-10 animals I have stuck whether immediately or 10 minutes after shot, gush blood out their new orifice and show markedly less blood in the gut cavity. Before I stick them I also try and orient them head downhill to let gravity help and maybe it works somewhat like a siphon effect? Try it and see if it works for yourself!

I have.

In my experience no heartbeat means no bleeding.

And like DLS said, no blood in the gut cavity unless I shoot them aft of the diaphragm. Haven't done that in a long time.




P

 

[osprey]

The livestock kill boys don't shoot em behind diaphragm and they stick every animal. I am sure the effect is better when circ system is pressurized as most of my kills most certainly are but as I have observed sticking them always seems to have a positive effect for me. I am not trying to tell anybody what to do, as with everything in life ymmv. I will however keep doing what works for me.

 

[osprey]

Also, there is always some blood in gut cavity if they are not stuck as you are cutting or tearing blood vessels when you separate gut bag/organs from rest of carcass.

 

[pharmseller]

The livestock kill boys don't shoot em behind diaphragm and they stick every animal. I am sure the effect is better when circ system is pressurized as most of my kills most certainly are but as I have observed sticking them always seems to have a positive effect for me. I am not trying to tell anybody what to do, as with everything in life ymmv. I will however keep doing what works for me.

Livestock boys are sticking stunned animals with an active heart. Heart is still beating so in effect they're getting bled out.

If you're shooting animals through the lungs they die by blood loss anyway.

Not trying to change you. Keep doing what works for you.

 

[osprey]

Leading a horse to water comes to mind. Try sticking em folks and see if it works for yourself! I am over and out on this one.

 

[pharmseller]

Leading a horse to water comes to mind. Try sticking em folks and see if it works for yourself! I am over and out on this one.

I told you I tried it. It didn't work for me.

I also said keep doing what works for you.

No need for attitude.

 

[Koda]

Ive never slit throats but have had some cavities fill with blood others less. I doubt ive taken as many game as you guys here but I might try it next time if it helps empty the animal for gutting.
Anyways....

I have a fun story that this thread brought back to my memory. Earlier someone recommended Craig Boddingtons book The Perfect Shot. I found 2 mini editions on Midway for cheap so I added them to an order. They arrived earlier last week... very cool useful book. Anyways
I came to the page describing full frontal shots. Author recommends to wait for the game to turn slightly, I agree...
My last deer was a small blacktail with the exact shot placement in his book. I was on a small ridge, heavy brush when two does popped out in front of me maybe 20 yards and trotted right past me. Something spooked them from below and I knew odds were good a buck was on their heels. He stepped out in the same spot facing me, full frontal shot. I was already ready except even on the lowest scope setting it was almost all fur. Id never been faced with a full frontal shot before and didnt know where exactly to aim so I aimed dead center and fired. I forgot about the scope being higher than the barrel at this distance or maybe I flinched.... I hit him low, exactly where the heart is in Craigs book with a 3030.
The deer didn't even flinch. He lowered his head and ran straight at me. I levered another round into him same shot but from maybe 10 yards now. It all happened so fast. The second bullet hit in the same spot but this time the buck instantly jumped in the air and I swear I saw the life pass out of him airborn as his body went limp mid air, when he hit the ground it was dead weight and he rolled downhill unfortunately.


Pics are before and after dressing, before you can see the entrance hole that is two shots in nearly the same spot. My guess what happened is the first shot missed the heart by a fraction. The heart had a hole in it but not big enough for two hits. The second pic dressed out shows the entrance wound much larger than I expected for two hits.

So the full frontal heart shot, even at close range is still a small target to hit.

 

[orygun]

I don't bleed them out, but start gutting right away. On the very first deer I shot, I didn't gut him for a couple of hours because I was unsure and waited for help. I have to say that was the worst eating deer. We ground up a bunch of meat for burger and it was so bad we threw it out. It all makes sense now.

 

[Koda]

I don't bleed them out, but start gutting right away. On the very first deer I shot, I didn't gut him for a couple of hours because I was unsure and waited for help. I have to say that was the worst eating deer. We ground up a bunch of meat for burger and it was so bad we threw it out. It all makes sense now.

Over the years Ive heard arguments that deer doesnt taste good, but while taste is subjective proper care of meat is not. You have to gut and skin them right away, asap, larger game like elk need to be quartered asap, in short from the moment of death the animals meat needs to be in a cooling trend working its way to your freezer. An animal that takes a while to find or whatever reason gutting and skinning is delayed, its internal heat can taint the meat or spoil it.

 

[orygun]

@Koda I agree with what you posted with one possible change. I was taught that instead of skinning the animal to cool it, another way is to fill the body cavity with ice and wrap the whole thing with a blanket. The hide is also a great insulator. I've done it that way when it was kinda warm outside. Most of the time It's cool out and Mother Nature is helpful. Two seasons ago it was going to be well below freezing over night and I'd just shot a deer that afternoon. I gutted him, hung him up, but didn't skin him. Honestly, I was worried about parts of him freezing! Took him home the next day and did the skinning. No complaints on the quality of that load of meat.

All of this talk is making me hungry! My wife is making fresh pasta right now and I'm going to get some venison from the freezer. Gonna be a good dinner here tonite!

 

[Koda]

@Koda I agree with what you posted with one possible change. I was taught that instead of skinning the animal to cool it, another way is to fill the body cavity with ice and wrap the whole thing with a blanket. The hide is also a great insulator. I've done it that way when it was kinda warm outside. Most of the time It's cool out and Mother Nature is helpful. Two seasons ago it was going to be well below freezing over night and I'd just shot a deer that afternoon. I gutted him, hung him up, but didn't skin him. Honestly, I was worried about parts of him freezing! Took him home the next day and did the skinning. No complaints on the quality of that load of meat.

All of this talk is making me hungry! My wife is making fresh pasta right now and I'm going to get some venison from the freezer. Gonna be a good dinner here tonite!

Theres definetely different ways to do it and other variables like weather, Ive just never had that much spare ice on hand in the field and have often let the deer hang in camp a few days until the other hunters are done and heading home. As long as the meat is in a cooling trend it will be fine. Some people say deer is too gamey but I love it.

 

[orygun]

Yeah, the ice trick works well if you're close to home.
I, too, really like deer meat. Elk is one of my all time favorites of all meats.

 

[Zechariah]

I really like this topic. It's always good to keep learning and fun to hear other people's stories and thinking. I came across this article on whitetail which would work for elk and deer placement it's quarter and away placements. It's pretty common sense but a good read for a hunting junky like me.

Shot Placement Tips For Whitetail: Quartering Away - BaseMap

Shot Placement Tips For Whitetail: Quartering Away - BaseMap

www.basemap.com

P.S. I love deer and I love it bloody!

 

[Koda]

P.S. I love deer and I love it bloody!

its like some kind of sin to cook meat well done...


good web link...

 

[BigGame]

On the point of meat care in the field, here's a really good podcast from MeatEater talking with a meat scientist on the subject. It's long (almost two hours), but I've actually listened to it twice because I enjoyed it so much.

Ep. 227: Red Cutter | MeatEater Podcasts

Steven Rinella talks with meat scientist Dr. Chris Calkins, Spencer Neuharth, Corinne Schneider, and Phil Taylor.Topics discussed: debunking meat myths; how stress affects the flavor of meat; myoglobin and hemoglobin; why you shouldn't cut into an animal before rigor mortis is complete; muscle is...

www.themeateater.com

 

[osprey]

On the point of meat care in the field, here's a really good podcast from MeatEater talking with a meat scientist on the subject. It's long (almost two hours), but I've actually listened to it twice because I enjoyed it so much.

Ep. 227: Red Cutter | MeatEater Podcasts

Steven Rinella talks with meat scientist Dr. Chris Calkins, Spencer Neuharth, Corinne Schneider, and Phil Taylor.Topics discussed: debunking meat myths; how stress affects the flavor of meat; myoglobin and hemoglobin; why you shouldn't cut into an animal before rigor mortis is complete; muscle is...

www.themeateater.com

That was a very good podcast and validates my experience and conclusions regarding boning in the field leading to tougher cuts. My stating this in the aging meat thread raised some eyebrows and garnered a fair amount of disagreement, but it is a real phenomena. If the situation allows I always try and keep at least the rear section of a deer as a whole and only bone the front which is weenie/burg/stew meat anyway. In the case of an elk, quarters bone in If the pack is not too brutal. Unfortunately most of the backstrap have to come out boneless when you are talking longer pack distances. The podcast also speaks to the benefit of hanging with hide on when you get an animal whole and the weather is conducive, another practice I have come to endorse.

 

[Koda]

I had a chance to listen to that podcast today too and learned a alot.
Im still a big proponent of skinning asap but it makes sense to leave the hide on in cold weather if the game will freeze over night. Also... Freezing before rigormortis is bad....
I also never knew boning the meat in the field is bad for the flavor/toughness.... Though might not have a choice if the pack out is difficult enough.
Learned a lot in that podcast.

 

[trevi]

#3 is most important, Speed hurts but its only a percentage ( small) about what kills. It way over rated in the sense that everyone thinks speed is what kills. Nothing ever dies from speed alone or we would kill elk with with a 22 hornet or other speedy rounds. Its energy, speed is just the delivery mechanism and the how well the energy works.

Find a good heavy bullet bullet and a good speed and you have best results especially if you miss a vital. For me on elk, I shoot a heavy solid copper with a crapload of energy moving fast.

Shot a whitetail with a 22-250 at over 275 yards - never again. Factory Remington green/ white box HP was plain decapitation of the shoulder. The does' shoulder was ripped off and she ran another 200 yards before dying of blood loss. The gun was a heavy barrel Rem 700 and I was in a tree stand (Pennsylvania). Super accurate rifle and ammo combo but not a deer cartridge. So, speed ain't the need.