Do you have a light on your EDC firearm?

[Nick Burkhardt]

Trex arms has a few iwb with light options.

 

[Esam85]

View attachment 574047

Seriously though they have quality products not cheap though.

 

[No_Regerts]

Seriously though they have quality products not cheap though.

Ive messed with their holsters and I think their stuff isn't bad, but Cascadia Concealment will do full custom for less than $60.

 

[2A2Dend]

So the Surefire XC1 was a flop. The XC1A was updated to have detents.

Now the XC1B.
I've wanted this light since first release.
What say everyone, ring it out.
I do not like the change to AAA, but I think I can get beyond that.

 

[leadcounsel]

I'm not opposed to WMLs and keep some on my home defense guns. I also know that in my home I have light switches and flashlights, and an intruder will be presumed armed and dangerous with felonious harmful intent.

For a dedicated carry gun, no. I don't keep a WML. Maybe one day when they are minuscule, inexpensive, and holsters are easy and common. But to get into a good light/holster combo it's north of $150. Contrast that with an excellent handheld light which is $30.

Other points:
1. I don't have to draw my gun to use the light. That avoid legal entanglements, threatening behavior, brandishing, escalating a situation, etc.

2. Pointing a gun at people to ID them seems dangerous and illegal. You can use the flashlight to blind people without pointing a gun at them or even drawing a gun.

3. Can't "offset" the light and a WML gives away your exact position

4. As a civilian, I don't chase crooks into darkened warehouses and alleyways, nor clear rooms in 3rd world ratholes without electricity. I rarely am out in the dark, and there's almost always ambient light. The only exception is planned woods outtings where I have a flashlight in my hand at all times at night. In memory, I can't recall the last time I was in a totally darkened area where I might be subject to an assault. I don't venture to those areas. City locations always have lights. And in the ultra rare scenario the power is out, a $30 flashlight will solve the problem.

5. Learn to shoot with a flashlight. Plenty of techniques.

 

[No_Regerts]

I'm not opposed to WMLs and keep some on my home defense guns. I also know that in my home I have light switches and flashlights, and an intruder will be presumed armed and dangerous with felonious harmful intent.

For a dedicated carry gun, no. I don't keep a WML. Maybe one day when they are minuscule, inexpensive, and holsters are easy and common. But to get into a good light/holster combo it's north of $150. Contrast that with an excellent handheld light which is $30.

Other points:
1. I don't have to draw my gun to use the light. That avoid legal entanglements, threatening behavior, brandishing, escalating a situation, etc.

Don't search with your gun. But once your gun is out, you'll want that other hand for something other than playing with a handheld.

2. Pointing a gun at people to ID them seems dangerous and illegal. You can use the flashlight to blind people without pointing a gun at them or even drawing a gun.

Same as #1. Not saying you shouldn't have a handheld. If you are blinding people, you have the slightest idea they are up to no good.

3. Can't "offset" the light and a WML gives away your exact position

I do lots of lowlight training with sims, not really an issue. It never been an issue in real life either. Especially with really bright lights. The various positions like harries, FBI, and body indexing suck when you need that hand for ANYTHING.

4. As a civilian, I don't chase crooks into darkened warehouses and alleyways, nor clear rooms in 3rd world ratholes without electricity. I rarely am out in the dark, and there's almost always ambient light. The only exception is planned woods outtings where I have a flashlight in my hand at all times at night. In memory, I can't recall the last time I was in a totally darkened area where I might be subject to an assault. I don't venture to those areas. City locations always have lights. And in the ultra rare scenario the power is out, a $30 flashlight will solve the problem.

As much as people harp about "SHTF" stuff here, this one surprises me. People buy EMP-proof vehicles but wont screw a light onto a gun that is built to take it. I commend you for controlling your environment. Just remember that bad guys and Murphy make the terms, not us.

5. Learn to shoot with a flashlight. Plenty of techniques.

And they all suck compared to a two handed grip. And once you drop your handheld, you're screwed.

 

[leadcounsel]

The scenarios seem extreme far fetched and unsupported by an real world examples.

First, to draw a gun you have to know of or see or perceive a threat. If you draw a gun, without that, YOU are the threat. So how are you seeing this threat without a light, that's on your gun? It doesn't make sense.

First thing first, you need to see/perceive a threat to give yourself lethal force justification to even clear leather. Using your gun as a search light is a no-no. Let's say you're in a darkened movie theater (I never am, but for the sake of discussion) and a shooting erupts. It would probably be safer to draw a flashlight for escape, than do draw a handgun (which may cause people to ID you at the perp). Let's say you're in the twin towers and escaping. Probably much safer for everyone if your gun remained hidden and holstered and you use a flashlight to navigate your escape. It's situational, yes.
These are exceptionally rare events.

1. Give us a scenario where you use your gun to search around a darkened area without raising alarms of every other concealed carrying person, or cop, etc. Seems far too risky. Use a flashlight. If you're carrying both, it seems needlessly redundant.

2. If I need to stiff arm someone who is attacking me, how are they indentifying who I am if there's no light, and why do I need to see them? I'm being attacked. I'm holding someone off me in the PITCH DARK??? I think we know that's totally unrealistic, and in the .00000001% chance, I'll problem solve it when it happens.

3. Any examples in the real world of a civilian actually using his WML in a real self defense shooting that was not supported by ambient light? I'd love to hear real world common examples and not training and conjecture and theory.

4. I don't live in a paranoid delusion world nor confuse myself with Mr. Gadget spyman needing to do these things. But I do carry a flashlight. I suppose in the fantasy scenario where I'm in some blackened out world, I'll just solve it by removing and using my flashlight. That $150 is better spent training, ammo, etc. than on a cumbersome light that will literally never be used in public.

 

[No_Regerts]

The scenarios seem extreme far fetched and unsupported by an real world examples.

First, to draw a gun you have to know of or see or perceive a threat. If you draw a gun, without that, YOU are the threat. So how are you seeing this threat without a light, that's on your gun? It doesn't make sense.

First thing first, you need to see/perceive a threat to give yourself lethal force justification to even clear leather. Using your gun as a search light is a no-no. Let's say you're in a darkened movie theater (I never am, but for the sake of discussion) and a shooting erupts. It would probably be safer to draw a flashlight for escape, than do draw a handgun (which may cause people to ID you at the perp). Let's say you're in the twin towers and escaping. Probably much safer for everyone if your gun remained hidden and holstered and you use a flashlight to navigate your escape. It's situational, yes.
These are exceptionally rare events.

1. Give us a scenario where you use your gun to search around a darkened area without raising alarms of every other concealed carrying person, or cop, etc. Seems far too risky. Use a flashlight. If you're carrying both, it seems needlessly redundant.

2. If I need to stiff arm someone who is attacking me, how are they indentifying who I am if there's no light, and why do I need to see them? I'm being attacked. I'm holding someone off me in the PITCH DARK??? I think we know that's totally unrealistic, and in the .00000001% chance, I'll problem solve it when it happens.

3. Any examples in the real world of a civilian actually using his WML in a real self defense shooting that was not supported by ambient light? I'd love to hear real world common examples and not training and conjecture and theory.

4. I don't live in a paranoid delusion world nor confuse myself with Mr. Gadget spyman needing to do these things. But I do carry a flashlight. I suppose in the fantasy scenario where I'm in some blackened out world, I'll just solve it by removing and using my flashlight. That $150 is better spent training, ammo, etc. than on a cumbersome light that will literally never be used in public.

Your reading comprehension sucks. I said "dont search with your WML." It was actually the first sentence. The WML is used AFTER a threat is identified and you have a need to draw your weapon. But once its drawn, the wml is a failsafe if you need your other hand for anything other than holding your flashlight. This could be calling for help or anything really.

As for #2, low light doesn't mean you're blind. I've worked part time in a bar in downtown Tacoma and there is lots of ambient light, but you'll never really see if you don't have something. Its why I edc a handheld along with a gun with a light. Redundancy that is no hindrance other than a couple extra ounces is no big deal. What is the disadvantage?

#3: Just because there isn't a stat nerd keeping a track of it doesn't mean it doesnt happen. Again, no one has been beat to death with their WML either. Call it a wash?

#4: Cumbersome? C'mon man. We've met and you look plenty strong. Carrying a gun in your non-paranoid world is ok but a light is just too over the top, huh?

Compared to a stick of gum:



Compared to a .5 oz bottle of eye drops:



The whole thing, plus the handheld that I use to look at things:

 

[leadcounsel]

Your reading comprehension sucks. I said "dont search with your WML." It was actually the first sentence. The WML is used AFTER a threat is identified and you have a need to draw your weapon. But once its drawn, the wml is a failsafe if you need your other hand for anything other than holding your flashlight. This could be calling for help or anything really.

As for #2, low light doesn't mean you're blind. I've worked part time in a bar in downtown Tacoma and there is lots of ambient light, but you'll never really see if you don't have something. Its why I edc a handheld along with a gun with a light. Redundancy that is no hindrance other than a couple extra ounces is no big deal. What is the disadvantage?

#3: Just because there isn't a stat nerd keeping a track of it doesn't mean it doesnt happen. Again, no one has been beat to death with their WML either. Call it a wash?

#4: Cumbersome? C'mon man. We've met and you look plenty strong. Carrying a gun in your non-paranoid world is ok but a light is just too over the top, huh?

Compared to a stick of gum:

View attachment 574082

Compared to a .5 oz bottle of eye drops:

View attachment 574083

The whole thing, plus the handheld that I use to look at things:

View attachment 574084

You've made strong arguments but I remain unpersuaded. A decent WML is nearly $100. I'd have to change out at least 1 holster, another ~$100. That's a $200 investment into a piece of gear that I have never needed, and cannot envision any realistic scenario to need it where a normal flashlight (which I already own and carry) isn't as good or better substitute. Even if we cut the prices to $100 total for the setup I'm still uncompelled. I can see no realistic scenario of me needing a WML in public. Can you provide any realistic situations for it?

* Need to walk thru a dark parking lot. Problem solved without brandishing. I draw and use a flashlight.
* Power outtage in any building. Problem solved, I draw and use a flashlight.
* Someone comes up to me in the dark (can't envision that but okay) and presents a threat. Well, since it's probably foolish to draw on a man with a gun/knife right on me, I comply. Also, if I can't see him, I'm guessing at the level of threat. I can't or wouldn't want to risk drawing on an unknown threat in the dark... so again, compliance.

Any realistic scenarios coming?

I believe in the 80/20 rules. Heck this is a 95/5 rule here: Spend the majority of time/energy/resources on realistic scenarios and then if there's time, spend it on the outliers.

 

[Edward Hull]

I carry three lights. 1) Streamlight HLX in my left pocket with a Thrym SwitchBack. 2) Surefire X300U that is mounted to my CC pistol. 3) The light integrated into my iPhone.

The iPhone light is for general purpose. The HLX is for identifying threats in any condition (1000 lumens is good for that). The X300U is ONLY for use with the pistol and it ONLY comes out if the pistol comes out.

I will submit that it is highly unlikely I will ever need the pistol and as such I will likely never need the WML. However, it isn't the odds that I'm concerned with, it's the stakes. As such I carry tools that increase my survivability.

 

[leadcounsel]

I carry three lights. 1) Streamlight HLX in my left pocket with a Thrym SwitchBack. 2) Surefire X300U that is mounted to my CC pistol. 3) The light integrated into my iPhone.

The iPhone light is for general purpose. The HLX is for identifying threats in any condition (1000 lumens is good for that). The X300U is ONLY for use with the pistol and it ONLY comes out if the pistol comes out.

I will submit that it is highly unlikely I will ever need the pistol and as such I will likely never need the WML. However, it isn't the odds that I'm concerned with, it's the stakes. As such I carry tools that increase my survivability.

Fair enough. Do you also eat extremely healthy food and take care of your heart? Heart disease is a #1 killer by far. Do you wear a crash helmet in the car? 50,000 car deaths annually. Do you wear a ballistic vest as a civilian? Seems if you're seriously mitigating all situations, a ballistic vest makes total sense. It's not the odds, it's the stakes, afterall...

 

[No_Regerts]

You've made strong arguments but I remain unpersuaded. A decent WML is nearly $100. I'd have to change out at least 1 holster, another ~$100. That's a $200 investment into a piece of gear that I have never needed, and cannot envision any realistic scenario to need it where a normal flashlight (which I already own and carry) isn't as good or better substitute. Even if we cut the prices to $100 total for the setup I'm still uncompelled. I can see no realistic scenario of me needing a WML in public. Can you provide any realistic situations for it?

* Need to walk thru a dark parking lot. Problem solved without brandishing. I draw and use a flashlight.
* Power outtage in any building. Problem solved, I draw and use a flashlight.
* Someone comes up to me in the dark (can't envision that but okay) and presents a threat. Well, since it's probably foolish to draw on a man with a gun/knife right on me, I comply. Also, if I can't see him, I'm guessing at the level of threat. I can't or wouldn't want to risk drawing on an unknown threat in the dark... so again, compliance.

Any realistic scenarios coming?

I believe in the 80/20 rules. Heck this is a 95/5 rule here: Spend the majority of time/energy/resources on realistic scenarios and then if there's time, spend it on the outliers.

I tell you what, you buy the light and I'll get you a holster so you can just try it out. Here is an IWB holster my coworker made for an M&P 2.0 Compact with a TLR7:



Anytime you're in low light, having the redundancy of the light on your gun isn't a bad thing. One scenario I can think of is my edc becomes my bedside gun at night. If I wake if someone comes through the front door, I might have time to turn on some lights and call 911. If not and I don't wake until bad guy is coming down the hall or my bedroom door, I have the ability to see and shoot, even with one hand.

 

[Kruel J]

I'm honestly surprised at the pushback regarding WML's.

 

[leadcounsel]

I'm honestly surprised at the pushback regarding WML's.

Speaking for myself, I've never needed one, felt the need for one, or observed or read any civilian scenarious were PUBLIC situations warranted a zero-light self defense shooting. I scanned this entire thread, and many like it, and nobody can present a realistic scenario.

The $200 spent on a WML would honestly be better spent on a gym membership or a car crash helmet, both of which are less sexy but far more beneficial to ones' health.

 

[Edward Hull]

Fair enough. Do you also eat extremely healthy food and take care of your heart? Heart disease is a #1 killer by far. Do you wear a crash helmet in the car? 50,000 car deaths annually. Do you wear a ballistic vest as a civilian? Seems if you're seriously mitigating all situations, a ballistic vest makes total sense. It's not the odds, it's the stakes, afterall...

Challenge accepted!

I do eat extremely healthy food and I am in the gym 5 days a week, 5'10 175 lbs and 15% body fat. I do not wear a crash helmet because motor vehicle deaths are rarely attributed to massive trauma to the head when seatbelts are used. I drive a vehicle with vented airbags, I wear my seatbelt, I don't drink&drive, and I follow posted speed limits.

I don't wear a vest CONUS because they are very intrusive and not even close to the same scope as a WML, but I do carry a trauma kit on my person every day in addition to the kit in my vehicle. OCONUS I do wear a vest.

If your best arguments are bullsh*t like this then I've already won.

The answer to your question of when you would ever need a WML in a civilian setting are kids.

 

[Kruel J]

The positives far outweigh the negatives. Extra money and holsters blah blah blah. Excuses. I EDC a handheld light. Every day. My EDC G26 does NOT wear a light more for concealment than anything else. That being said, almost every other SD weapon in my collection wears a light, pistols and rifles. The whole "give away my position" is fantasyland BS. Like somehow a handheld light is in stealth mode, or I'm gonna shine it WAY off body? Under duress and in a bad situation? No way.

If someone doesn't like WML's that's cool. But asking for fact and stats on how often they are used by civilians is just silly and mental masturbation as to why one decides they are unnecessary.

 

[leadcounsel]

If it's such a common risk, let's just start with 1 newspaper article or video of a civilian in public needing to legally deploy a WML (where a flashlight would not have worked just as well). Good luck finding even one.

Meanwhile, in non-fantasy land, : TBI: Get the Facts | Concussion | Traumatic Brain Injury | CDC Injury Center

TBI related injuries and deaths - a leading cause in the United States. Tens of thousands every year. Mainly from falling or car accidents. And seatbelts and airbags don't fully protect a person from a TBI... better go get your crash helmet. It's not the odds, it's what is at stake.

We can play that game all night. The reality is a WML is not needed and there's no realistic scenario where - using a pistol in public - it's going to be useful for a civilian. Just extra stuff to carry and conceal. Might even slow down a draw by a fraction of a second... could be detrimental in those terms.

If you want to really play the odds, buy a crash helmet and wear it in the car and any time you get on a ladder.

 

[Kruel J]

If it's such a common risk, let's just start with 1 newspaper article or video of a civilian in public needing to legally deploy a WML (where a flashlight would not have worked just as well). Good luck finding even one.

Meanwhile, in non-fantasy land, : TBI: Get the Facts | Concussion | Traumatic Brain Injury | CDC Injury Center

TBI related injuries and deaths - a leading cause in the United States. Tens of thousands every year. Mainly from falling or car accidents. And seatbelts and airbags don't fully protect a person from a TBI... better go get your crash helmet. It's not the odds, it's what is at stake.

We can play that game all night. The reality is a WML is not needed and there's no realistic scenario where - using a pistol in public - it's going to be useful for a civilian. Just extra stuff to carry and conceal. Might even slow down a draw by a fraction of a second... could be detrimental in those terms.

If you want to really play the odds, buy a crash helmet and wear it in the car and any time you get on a ladder.

Yeah, you've mentioned crash helmets a few times. If you don't like WML's good for you. But to say they are "not needed" is just your opinion. And we all have those so you do you.\

BTW, what do helmets, TBI's and your linked article have to do with WPL's? Seems like just a bunch of BS off-topic filler to me......

 

[leadcounsel]

The positives far outweigh the negatives. Extra money and holsters blah blah blah. Excuses. I EDC a handheld light. Every day. My EDC G26 does NOT wear a light more for concealment than anything else. That being said, almost every other SD weapon in my collection wears a light, pistols and rifles. The whole "give away my position" is fantasyland BS. Like somehow a handheld light is in stealth mode, or I'm gonna shine it WAY off body? Under duress and in a bad situation? No way.

If someone doesn't like WML's that's cool. But asking for fact and stats on how often they are used by civilians is just silly and mental masturbation as to why one decides they are unnecessary.

I work hard for my money. I don't like to squander it on needless stuff. I also carry enough stuff every day. A WML is just one more item to buy, to service, and to carry. Like many others, my EDC system already pulls at my belt... I'm personally reluctant to waste the hard earned money, to carry around more stuff that's harder to conceal, when it's entirely pointless. And redundant if one already carries a flashlight. If you have a taclite, which most do and carry, and a light on your phone, you have 2 lights to use (granted the phone light isn't practical for defensive use, but for general visual aid).

I'm not inclined to add a THIRD light to my daily inventory when I can barely justify needing one...

 

[Kruel J]

I work hard for my money. I don't like to squander it on needless stuff. I also carry enough stuff every day. A WML is just one more item to buy, to service, and to carry. Like many others, my EDC system already pulls at my belt... I'm personally reluctant to waste the hard earned money, to carry around more stuff that's harder to conceal, when it's entirely pointless. And redundant if one already carries a flashlight. If you have a taclite, which most do and carry, and a light on your phone, you have 2 lights to use (granted the phone light isn't practical for defensive use, but for general visual aid).

I'm not inclined to add a THIRD light to my daily inventory when I can barely justify needing one...

Cool, but suggesting a "phone light" is anything more than a novelty is like going to a carnival with the idea that one is going to actually win something of real value.