Couple in gated community meet protesters while armed

[Hueco]

I doubt anyone here is giving "the mob a pass", speaking for myself I know I'd never be in their shoes, so there's no use in critiquing them. The whole point of the exercise is to help me have a better plan.

Agreed - have a better plan.

Was the protest group a mob? Unknown. I don't believe that anything besides the fence at entrance was harmed.

Did these two have "castle doctrine" laws at their backs? I believe that's also an unknown. Yes, the protestors were on private property but it was the HOA's property, not these homeowners. As far as we know, no protestor stepped foot on their actual property.

Did they have the right to brandish their weapons? I don't think so but opinions on this will differ. I don't think you should be pointing a weapon at anyone unless you intend to shoot - obviously not the case here.

The group had an objective target and it was not this couple's house. Did they make themselves a target by standing in the yard armed? Would the protest have simply walked on by had they never walked outside?

Yes, you can argue that they have the right to be in their yard and armed as well. Just like I've got the right to walk downtown during the protests, armed as well. The question is, is it a wise idea? In both cases, I think not.

With the lack of training that these two show, I can't help but wonder why they thought it a good idea to go confront the protest in the first place? They had to know that their actions would be confrontational, antagonizing, and escalating...so why make that decision?

No protest is going to be walking down my section of suburbia, nor mob, riot, counter riot, et. al. But, assuming that there was, I see no reason to make my house a target by standing out front armed...especially if any sort of violence towards my house or my neighbors or the people in them has not been done.

 

[MannyGlocks]

I messed up somehow here.

See below.

Sorry.

 

[MannyGlocks]

WTH?

Why weren't they 'IN' the mob then...?

If a bunch of Conservatives were marching, I'd join em, I sure wouldn't fear them and feel I needed to 'gun up'...

So, does this indicate the couple have a certain dilettanteish attitude towards the blammers, but when the rubber meets the road, (how's that for a very old cliche) they realized "aw man, these people could go off on us cuz we be 'pale folk" and no amount of donations to the dems will bail us out...

Well, HA HA, said in my best Nelson Muntiz mocking laugh.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Maybe they see their error, but more likely they're not that humble.

 

[EHJ]

.

 

[Member 34319]

Cites?

Found this. Looks like typical conservatives sources already making them out to be the other political party. I can't help but find myself falling for that a lot lately. So much freaking misinformation out there. Turns out they actively donate to the RNC.

Mark McCloskey & Patricia McCloskey: St. Louis Couple Pull Guns on Protesters

Mark McCloskey and Patricia McCloskey are a husband and wife personal injury lawyer team who pointed guns at protesters walking by their home in St. Louis in a viral video.

www.google.com

 

[Bam]

A gated community is not public property, and these people were not where they belong. Regardless of how horrible a person is, you have no right taking it to their home.

Based on their firearm handing, it is obvious they don't know what they are doing. And they might be one of those that ran out and bought a gun for the first time for this exact thing!

With people rioting, looting, and destroying property, while police stand back, these people were geuinely and rightfully terrified.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Sledge,

I agree, but the mob was comprised of folks they ostensibly support.

WTH?

Color me 'confused'.

 

[HA556]

I'm not saying what they did was right, just saying until we are in the exact position it'd be challenging to say what we'd do.

There are some who have training, years of it, and can honestly say they know what they'd do if in that position!

 

[asiparks]

Sledge,

I agree, but the mob was comprised of folks they ostensibly support.

WTH?

Color me 'confused'.

"
While some on social media have claimed the McCloskeys are registered Democrats, it was not immediately possible to determine whether the couple are actually registered as Democrats or if they are registered Republicans. But Federal Election Commission records show Mark McCloskey has contributed thousands of dollars to the Trump Make America Great Again Committee, the Republican National Committee and Donald J. Trump for President Inc. He also made contributions to a Republican congressional candidate, Bill Phelps, in 1996, and to the Bush-Quayle campaign in 1992.

Patricia McCloskey also made a contribution to the RNC in 2018 and to a Republican Senate dinner in 1988."

so, not so much. Click on the FEC link for breakdown

 

[Medic!]

An old school looking AR.
I wonder if it isn't really an M-16?

Hey..... He can afford it.

 

[HA556]

At some point, someone's gonna start shooting. Maybe not St. Louis, but somewhere. Covid, The Bureau of Land Management, Talks of food shortages, etc are all making people jumpy

I too think it's just a matter of time and someone is going to get their %^^% blown away for the stupid crap they're pulling!

 

[JedB]

Agreed - have a better plan.

Was the protest group a mob? Unknown. I don't believe that anything besides the fence at entrance was harmed.

Did these two have "castle doctrine" laws at their backs? I believe that's also an unknown. Yes, the protestors were on private property but it was the HOA's property, not these homeowners. As far as we know, no protestor stepped foot on their actual property.

Did they have the right to brandish their weapons? I don't think so but opinions on this will differ. I don't think you should be pointing a weapon at anyone unless you intend to shoot - obviously not the case here.

The group had an objective target and it was not this couple's house. Did they make themselves a target by standing in the yard armed? Would the protest have simply walked on by had they never walked outside?

Yes, you can argue that they have the right to be in their yard and armed as well. Just like I've got the right to walk downtown during the protests, armed as well. The question is, is it a wise idea? In both cases, I think not.

With the lack of training that these two show, I can't help but wonder why they thought it a good idea to go confront the protest in the first place? They had to know that their actions would be confrontational, antagonizing, and escalating...so why make that decision?

No protest is going to be walking down my section of suburbia, nor mob, riot, counter riot, et. al. But, assuming that there was, I see no reason to make my house a target by standing out front armed...especially if any sort of violence towards my house or my neighbors or the people in them has not been done.

Well written. Part in bold is very spot on, IMO.
Why antagonize when nothing else in the neighborhood (other than the gate, so they could protest in front of the Mayor's house) was harmed.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Should you defend yourself or your home if threatened or attacked...Yes.
But...
Defend should mean many things and utilize many different tactics....
More options for you and less options , for the intruder is the idea.

Standing on your porch , close together , with no cover or concealment...is not a good option in my mind.
Did it work in this case...Yes.
With that said...
So what...
All that means is that it worked , in this particular case...it may not work out so well for someone else.
Andy

 

[The Heretic]

Well written. Part in bold is very spot on, IMO.
Why antagonize when nothing else in the neighborhood (other than the gate, so they could protest in front of the Mayor's house) was harmed.

Maybe. But mobs can be unpredictable. There is something to be said for making a show of force to let the mob know that they would be facing armed resistance to maybe nip it in the bud.

That said, it was poorly done, and they opened themselves up to possible criminal charges too. IMO it would have been better had the firearms been within reach or somewhat hidden, or at least pointed at the ground (or sky), then if someone stepped "over the line", then the firearms could be brought to bear as necessary.

 

[turbo_vanner]

Oh, are there gates at the ends of SE 82nd? Is SE 82nd private property? Kinda a silly comparison...

I don't recall saying there were gates, or that 82nd was private... if that's the comparison you want to draw, you are welcome to do that, I guess. I would assume most folks here mentioning what they would do, also do not live in private gated communities.

The only comparison I made was in how I might treat protestors marching around in front of my house, be it gated, private, or neither.... as per my post... "if I saw protestors marching up and down se 82nd in front of my home..."

 

[Dinglenutz]

Did these two have "castle doctrine" laws at their backs? I believe that's also an unknown. Yes, the protestors were on private property but it was the HOA's property, not these homeowners. As far as we know, no protestor stepped foot on their actual property.

For me this seems to be a crucial distinction, I doubt castle doctrine covers the entire HOA.

One other thing. Typically, even on private property, simply entering a publicly accessible area such as for instance walking down my sidewalk to my front door, isn't enough to trigger the justified use of deadly force. Even shooing the Mormons away by pointing an AR at them is probably going to be legally dicey. The utility guy reads the meter, UPS leaves a box for my dog to tear to pieces, and so on.

I'm not a lawyer, and I'd love someone who is more acquainted with the actual application of law to this circumstance to weigh in.

 

[RicInOR]

'We Were Facing An Angry Mob': Gun-Toting St. Louis Couple Tell Their Side Of The Story

Update (1115ET): The St. Louis couple seen defending their mansion on Sunday have spoken publicly about what happened.

 

[EHJ]

"Justifiable Fearfulness"

CNN just making things that much easier for everyone.

Missouri Self-Defense Laws - FindLaw

FindLaw's article on Missouri Self-Defense Laws. For more information on this and related topics, see FindLaw's section on Missouri Criminal Laws.

statelaws.findlaw.com

 

[The Heretic]

For me this seems to be a crucial distinction, I doubt castle doctrine covers the entire HOA.

One other thing. Typically, even on private property, simply entering a publicly accessible area such as for instance walking down my sidewalk to my front door, isn't enough to trigger the justified use of deadly force. Even shooing the Mormons away by pointing an AR at them is probably going to be legally dicey. The utility guy reads the meter, UPS leaves a box for my dog to tear to pieces, and so on.

I'm not a lawyer, and I'd love someone who is more acquainted with the actual application of law to this circumstance to weigh in.

It depends on the HOA; the makeup of the charter, etc.

My neighborhood isn't an HOA, but there is an "easement" on the private road - technically, my property extends to the middle of the private road, so as soon as someone has come down the road to my property line, they are on my property. If they are not there at the invitation of one of the property owners, then I can claim they are trespassing - indeed, any of the owners of the adjoining property can claim the same.