Collapse the Movie

[The Somnambulist]

It's been mentioned here before, but I will mention it again because it is that good:

The Crash Course - Chris Martenson - chapters, Crash Course, Economy, Energy, environment, Peak Oil, videos, what should I do

Watch all 3 hours, it is worth your time.

 

[EZLivin]

Probably best to assume peak oil is real and plan accordingly.

Absolutely the prudent thing to do.

What bugs me about the abiotic oil crowd is they seem to think it (abiotic oil) negates peak oil. Peak oil is based on the observation that the world is utilizing oil faster than we can find it and suck it out of the ground. If abiotic oil is real (which I don't think it is), it doesn't really matter since we are still using it up faster than we can find it and suck it out of the ground. We should all enjoy our cheap oil while we can. It is going to cost us a lot more in the not too distant future. Oh... I see that others have already mentioned that on this thread. Good! Smart people here!

 

[chemist]

It's been mentioned here before, but I will mention it again because it is that good:

The Crash Course - Chris Martenson - chapters, Crash Course, Economy, Energy, environment, Peak Oil, videos, what should I do

Watch all 3 hours, it is worth your time.

+1!

 

[Russianfist]

WOW.... interesting, A bit of a loon on some things but I admire his convictions and will continue watching.

 

[mjbskwim]

I read most of the posts and there is some great ideas on here and some food for thought.

You could look at it as Ruppert was paid by the energy companies to start a scare,by the solar people to go solar,by the seed manufacturers,and on and on and on.

Gold could have come up with ideas for some of the same reasons.

When it come to conspiracy theories,I don't have the connections or the security clearances to verify any of these statements.And no matter how smart and how many years of college you have,unless you were on site for these studies,there is no way to know what the documents really said.

So all in all,I am only an observer,not a total believer in any of these guys.Doesn't mean I won't hope for the best while planning for the worst.

One of the things that I did change my perspective on was the social break down.
I kept thinking about the government bringing troops around and trying to bring in UN troops.(Yes I know they train here already,as we do in other countries)

Anyway, I wasn't thinking as much about just poor,distraught people disrupting everything we hold near and dear as about the government.

It's funny cause I always tell people to carry when in the back country so the broke richard mofos don't steal all they have.

I do believe we will have,or the collapse will continue.And we will run out of resources.I have heard water will be first.
Globally, fresh water is on the decline?

 

[Quackerbacker]

This guy is someone who has spent a lifetime thinking critically and investigating "the other side of the story" and who's ego is most definitely fed by being recognized for that. On the one hand, it takes someone like that to make these discoveries, on the other hand, his need of recognition for his talents and work makes him cross over the line into the outrageous from time to time making him too easy to discount.

Michael Ruppert is the "crazy person" who holds some seeds of truth but can be booed into irrevelance because he says a few crazy things.

You can't deny the facts he presents though. He connects the dots, particularly on economics, better than anyone else, even peter schiff.

 

[TAT2D]

Yep, Monsanto's lovely genetically modified "terminator" seeds. Fortunately there are a handful of small companies that still sell non-genetically modified, non-jackass gardening seeds.

You don't even have to get so exotic as GMO to find plants that won't reproduce true to their parents. Many simple hybrids will produce seeds that that when grown produce nothing like their parent generation.

An heirloom, so far as I can tell, is just a hybrid that *does* reproduce true. It's hybridized in so far as, over several generations, the plants retained for seed were selected based on desired properties -- fruit quality, climate tolerance, etc.

Territorial Seed Co is 'local', in Cottage Grove, OR. Territorial Seed
another source is Seed Savers Exchange (Seed Savers Exchange) whose game is helping individuals buy/sell/swap seeds with each other.

MrB

 

[Jamie6.5]

To anyone that believes that nut-ball,...
You have my sympathies,...

I'd really like to have my ~80 minutes back.

 

[Trlsmn]

To anyone that believes that nut-ball,...
You have my sympathies,...

I'd really like to have my ~80 minutes back.

Thank you! I didn't want to say it, but I do agree that the guy is just another self important Tin Foil cowboy looking for the next conspiracy to spin himself into.

Every good lie is sandwiched between two truths and that is this guys MO.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Not to mention that he's bound to have an agenda all his own.
His degree is in Political Science, not journalism or any other english language discipline. Certainly not economics.
He is a disgraced cop.
He made stuff up to CHA.(logical extension of CYA here in "bubblegum" land)

He gets sued for sexual harassment in Ashland by a female employee so he splits to avoid the lawsuit,...
TO VENEZUELA!! You know, home of the marxist dictator Chavez,...
Comes home with his tail between his legs and rents a place in L.A.,....

Does this sound like someone that is looking to save himself by growing his own food and preparing for the future as he sees it?
C'mon people, first he says he managed to put all this together by reading the newspaper and watching the news. Then he goes on to say he started blowing off the mainstream media in '06.

He's voicing his personal fears, which no doubt developed along the same lines as any of us, but he's damn sure not clairvoyant!!
He is a victim of his own guilt brought about by the alarmist side of pop culture.
He talks about Mortgage Backed Securities and derivatives as if he knows all about them and he's the only one.

Pay attention!!! There were people within Bush's admin that were warning us about Fannie, Freddie and MBS's back in '03 for chrissake.

The theory of peak oil has been around for decades.

He's in the business of scaring people and no doubt looking to profit from it. He has a devout group of followers that are collecting money for him to appeal his court loss, that was a slam dunk case.

The only thing worse is the people/person involved in this fiasco of a movie. The idiots that filmed and edited it, and those that are giving him the airtime.

/Rant

 

[9MilMan]

Another ditto to what Jamie 6.5 said!

 

[riverrat373]

See JustJim's words:
"There is no division on truth, only those who won't believe it divide us."

So to answer your question is, no, there's no use in dealing fact to those whose minds are made up.

Anybody who bothered with even a cursory look at the Western Sedimentary Basin and the results of the recent infill drilling could clearly see that the days of cheap North American natgas are quickly reaching an end. Sure, we can frack away at the Bakken formation and get a little more very expensive gas - at the cost of our groundwater purity - but we'll never again see the bounty of the last sixty years.

That's Peak Oil. We'll never run out of oil (or gas), but we're running out of cheap, plentiful oil and gas right now.

+1

 

[8ball]

He's in the business of scaring people and no doubt looking to profit from it. He has a devout group of followers that are collecting money for him to appeal his court loss, that was a slam dunk case.

Amen. Follow the money!

Anybody remember Hal Lindsey and the 1970's classic The Late Great Planet Earth? We are thirty years overdue Hal! Can I get a refund?

The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching -- Assyrian tablet, 2800 BCE

 

[Jamie6.5]

The end of the world is nigh!!!!!!!!!!!!!








8ball and I agree on sumthin'!!

 

[8ball]

Four horsemen just rode past my window!

 

[AMProducts]

On the movie:

While I will admit, I did find the movie entertaining, I have huge reservations taking many of his predictions seriously and this is based on a number of factors. First, he has a persecution complex, and it all comes right from the top. Any little fish, that blames the biggest fish in the pond for their plight is always full of BS. That said... Some of his predictions did have an aire of truth to them, however, while they were based on a series of facts, his conclusions and solutions greatly overstated the scope of the problems he sought to address.

As many have said, peak oil, regardless of origin is bound to be a problem in the future, however with every passing year we get more and more efficient about how we use oil. Our manufacturing yields increase due to better catalysts, our vehicles get more efficient, and we find new processes which use different feed stocks to create the same products.

While I tend to think oil as being both biotic and abiotic, there is a constant renewal process as organic materials are pulled into the mantle by techtonic action, and carbon existant in the earth's core since our planet formed will continue to create usable hydrocarbons. The question is, are we using oil faster than these stores can be replaced. At present all signs point to yes, which begs the question what is the solution? As Ruppert pointed out, it takes 10 years to build a nuke plant. Most of that 10 years is red tape, we could build them in 2 if we were really motivated.

The basic problem I see with most of the theories which propose external destruction through resource exhaustion always miss the target, because it is a swiftly moving target. The target is moving, because of economic theory rather than the statistical basis most of these doom sayers predict. The more a resource costs, the less of it people will use, and thus the slower it will be depleted. However, this is not a cycle with a consistent curve, it always runs in fits and starts. Whenever gasoline starts getting expensive, the automotive companies undergo a development cycle which creates more efficient vehicles. Since there is hysteresis between the time demand is created for these vehicles and the time they are brought to market, there thus becomes hysteresis between the time gas becomes plentiful again and the price dropping.

While I don't believe in anthropogenic global warming, I do think resource exhaustion is a real threat to humanity, even if not in my life time, in my children's lifetimes. As a consequence we should be good stewards of the resources we have, and the creators of the infrastructure which will be a resource in the future. Oil is an essential feedstock for a vast number of applications, while I don't see any need to replace it as a motor fuel, using it for fixed power applications is wasteful, and we would be much better served investing in nuclear energy for this purpose.

Personally, I find that Ruppert may have some credibility on this subject, however I would consider him to be neither a primary nor authoritative source, rather I would refer to him as a secondary source which may provide links to original source material to which I would apply my own analysis.

 

[chemist]

Anthropogenic global warming isn't something you "believe" in or not; it's called data.

There are those who think that "belief" is a factor in whether species actually evolve, the entire observable universe came into being 6,000 years ago in a 144-hour period, or we can converse with an invisible, omniscient deity.

Talk about nut-ball philosophies!

 

[Jamie6.5]

"Anthropogenic" Global Warming certainly is about what you believe, because the "data" is all over the map. Except of course the data provided by the doomsayers. That is only slightly questionable.
The earth's cyclical temperature fluctuations should be part of the data sets and used as a control, but the AGW believers don't seem to want to use that as ANY kind of a proofing measure. They are too busy developing schemes to discredit anyone that disagrees with them.
Therefore, it is all about a pop culture guilt generator. Faith included.
And I'll say it again, if he really believed that load he is spewing, he wouldn't be living so close to the entertainment capitol of the world. He'd be as far from L.A. as he could get, and growing his own seed stock. He likes it where he is because there are so many potential well-moneyed believers in his cause there.
The left has co-opted the enviro-movement and through the use of skewed data and the use of pop culture to apply the associated guilt, they are looking to gain greater control.

I never said there wasn't a certain amount of truth to what the man said in the movie. I will say he presents himself as some kind of new age Nostradamus in the movie, which is just pure hogwash. I will also say that if anyone needs Michael Ruppert to explain things like peak oil, overpopulation or our economic woes, then they are woefully shortsighted and haven't been paying attention.

Or maybe they have just been distracted by all wonderful things going on on TV, and elsewhere in pop culture.
You know, all that important stuff like who won "dancing with the Smarms," or "Survivor Antarctica," or my all-time favorite, Americans "idle."

 

[John Davis]

I think Ruppert is right on the money on what is coming down the road....it's pretty obvious oil will run out....and it's pretty obvious the BS that's going on out there...where I disagree is his 'solution'.

No, I will not live on some collective farm, growing vegetables, in some 'community' with you other survivalists....he can if he wants.....

 

[Martini_Up]

I think we all agree on two things: We will run out of cheap oil and if Ruppert keeps lighting up the way he does, we'll also run out of cheap tobacco.