Collapse the Movie

[Sasquatchvnv]

The same Alan Watt who writes about reptile trogs living in secret caves below us? Yes, very depressing. It's sad that people with mental problems like Watt aren't getting help.

I think you mean David Icke. The only connection with the reptilian thing I can find to Watt is a debunking of the bunk. He uses it as an example of counter-intelligence by mixing proveable theories with un-proveable. (Make people discount the truth by mixing silly bs with fact.)

 

[chemist]

Don't even know if this level of ignorance is worth responding to.

See JustJim's words:
"There is no division on truth, only those who won't believe it divide us."

So to answer your question is, no, there's no use in dealing fact to those whose minds are made up.

Anybody who bothered with even a cursory look at the Western Sedimentary Basin and the results of the recent infill drilling could clearly see that the days of cheap North American natgas are quickly reaching an end. Sure, we can frack away at the Bakken formation and get a little more very expensive gas - at the cost of our groundwater purity - but we'll never again see the bounty of the last sixty years.

That's Peak Oil. We'll never run out of oil (or gas), but we're running out of cheap, plentiful oil and gas right now.

 

[Decker]

See JustJim's words:
"There is no division on truth, only those who won't believe it divide us."

So to answer your question is, no, there's no use in dealing fact to those whose minds are made up.

Anybody who bothered with even a cursory look at the Western Sedimentary Basin and the results of the recent infill drilling could clearly see that the days of cheap North American natgas are quickly reaching an end. Sure, we can frack away at the Bakken formation and get a little more very expensive gas - at the cost of our groundwater purity - but we'll never again see the bounty of the last sixty years.

That's Peak Oil. We'll never run out of oil (or gas), but we're running out of cheap, plentiful oil and gas right now.

Awww come on who really needs that life sustaining water anyway?



-d

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

I can go either way on the Peak Oil thing. The other side of the argument is "A-biotic" oil. The theory that oil in the reserviors we are normall tap actually comes from a huge reservior much deeper than we have been drilling. Some of the reserviors that were pronounced tapped out have been re-filling from somewhere. The Deepwater Horizon wells were said to be tapped into this deep reservior of abiotic oil.

I don't pretend to be educated enough on the subject to have a strong opinion either way. Just saying there is a dissenting opinion out there that sounds logical to me.

Probably best to assume peak oil is real and plan accordingly.

 

[Mitchell]

I can go either way on the Peak Oil thing. The other side of the argument is "A-boitic" oil. The theory that oil in the reserviors we are normall tap actually comes from a huge reservior much deeper than we have been drilling. Some of the reserviors that were pronounced tapped out have been re-filling from somewhere. The Deepwater Horizon wells were said to be tapped into this deep reservior of abiotic oil.

I don't think any petroleum geologist takes the notion of abiotic oil seriously. Personally I put "abiotic oil" in the same general category as miracle cancer cures.

Do you have a source for your statement that reservoirs have been refilling on their own? I'm familiar with new extraction technology enabling deeper extraction or faster rates (like squeezing a sponge drier, faster). That includes "reactivating" certain abandoned wells when oil prices are high enough. But I've never heard of reservoirs actually refilling.

Every well, every field, every country, and now the world, goes through a peak, i.e. a maximal rate of extraction, before rates begin to decline. The peak in the continental US was around 1970 (as predicted by M. King Hubbert, petroleum geologist and originator of the peak oil theory - he actually testified before congress on the subject, I can't remember when). If it weren't for Prudhoe Bay in Alaska, and the Gulf of Mexico, our decline rate since 1970 would have been much steeper. As it is, it's still far below the 1970 (or so) peak.

I don't pretend to be educated enough on the subject to have a strong opinion either way. Just saying there is a dissenting opinion out there that sounds logical to me.

Probably best to assume peak oil is real and plan accordingly.

+1.

 

[Martini_Up]

Organic seeds. Maybe I have been in the dark but I didn't know that there were seeds you buy, that when planted created a fruit (or veg.) which have seeds that won't grow... Frankenseeds is the term Ruppert used. I like jackass seeds myself.

 

[Mitchell]

Organic seeds. Maybe I have been in the dark but I didn't know that there were seeds you buy, that when planted created a fruit (or veg.) which have seeds that won't grow... Frankenseeds is the term Ruppert used. I like jackass seeds myself.

Yep, Monsanto's lovely genetically modified "terminator" seeds. Fortunately there are a handful of small companies that still sell non-genetically modified, non-jackass gardening seeds.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Organic seeds. Maybe I have been in the dark but I didn't know that there were seeds you buy, that when planted created a fruit (or veg.) which have seeds that won't grow... Frankenseeds is the term Ruppert used. I like jackass seeds myself.

Look for "heirloom" seeds. They are supposed to be just like the ones grampa used to grow. You could drive yourself crazy trying to verify the pedigree of everything you grow. I just draw the line at looking for heirloom, and hope that there is an honest person at the other end of the transaction.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Do you have a source for your statement that reservoirs have been refilling on their own? I'm familiar with new extraction technology enabling deeper extraction or faster rates (like squeezing a sponge drier, faster). That includes "reactivating" certain abandoned wells when oil prices are high enough. But I've never heard of reservoirs actually refilling.

I'm sure I could find conclusive proof that the moon is made of cheese somewhere on the internet. Here is a link to an article that discusses abiotic oil.

Scientists Prove Abiotic Oil Is Real!

The main reason I can consider it reasonable is the notion of artificial scarcity. If the resource is scarce, you can charge more for it. Kind of like diamonds. Colored gemstones are actually much more rare, but there is a geographic monopoly on diamond mines that allows artificial scarcity to drive up the price. Remember when Enron got caught causing random blackouts in CA in order to raise elecricity prices?

Like I said - I'm not sure which is correct. As long as they both sound reasonable to me, I'll delay coming down on one side or the other. I have a hard time calling anything gospel these days.

 

[Mitchell]

Look for "heirloom" seeds. They are supposed to be just like the ones grampa used to grow. You could drive yourself crazy trying to verify the pedigree of everything you grow. I just draw the line at looking for heirloom, and hope that there is an honest person at the other end of the transaction.

Territorial Seed Company is one good reputable source which I have direct experience with. There are a few others, whose names I don't have handy.

 

[8ball]

I think you mean David Icke. The only connection with the reptilian thing I can find to Watt is a debunking of the bunk. He uses it as an example of counter-intelligence by mixing proveable theories with un-proveable. (Make people discount the truth by mixing silly bs with fact.)

Nope, I mean Alan Watt, and alien troglodytes.

Let me google that for you

 

[8ball]

I'm sure I could find conclusive proof that the moon is made of cheese somewhere on the internet. Here is a link to an article that discusses abiotic oil.

Scientists Prove Abiotic Oil Is Real!

Although it is considered a 'crank' subject and rejected by mainstream geologists, abiogenic oil is pretty interesting to me mainly because one of the proponents was Thomas Gold, a brilliant physicist who had a history of coming up with correct theories in different fields.

Short article about him before he died in 2004 for those interested.

Washingtonpost.com: A Scientific Heretic Delves Beneath the Surface

Of course, a whole bunch of non-scientific conspiracy folks have now jumped on the bandwagon.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Nope, I mean Alan Watt, and alien troglodytes.

Let me google that for you

I used "Alan Watt reptilian" and didn't come up with anything derogatory. Troglodytes does bring up some pretty questionable material. I didn't see any direct reference to aliens or reptilians. Learn something new every day. Another one bites the dust.

 

[chemist]

Crude oil is filled with molecules that are specific to photosynthetic processes: porphyrins and porphins. That's because oil was made from algae! There is NFW that any abiotic process created these complex species. There has never, EVER been a shred of evidence that abiotic oil exists AT ALL, much less that it exists in economically meaningful amounts.

As to reservoir refilling, well of course! We put a straw into the dirt, suck like mad to extract the easily recovered oil, and wait awhile while a little more leaks into our recovery zone from the interstitial spaces in the surrounding dirt. No mystery there. The only questions are about the rate and the ultimately recoverable amount, not the refilling mechanism.

 

[MikeE]

Crude oil is filled with molecules that are specific to photosynthetic processes: porphyrins and porphins. That's because oil was made from algae! There is NFW that any abiotic process created these complex species. There has never, EVER been a shred of evidence that abiotic oil exists AT ALL, much less that it exists in economically meaningful amounts.

As to reservoir refilling, well of course! We put a straw into the dirt, suck like mad to extract the easily recovered oil, and wait awhile while a little more leaks into our recovery zone from the interstitial spaces in the surrounding dirt. No mystery there. The only questions are about the rate and the ultimately recoverable amount, not the refilling mechanism.

Chemist - you are making too damn much sense. Cut it out!

 

[9MilMan]

Don't even know if this level of ignorance is worth responding to.

What about his critique of nuclear power isn't credible? You realize that even the computer you are using is made from plastics (which are made from crude oil) right?

I won't bore you with my ignorance if you are going to be insulting.

 

[Riot]

I won't bore you with my ignorance if you are going to be insulting.

You and I talking reminds me of an old riddle I heard (actually, I first heard the riddle in the video attached).

A man plays chess with the king and wins, the king asks what he would like as a reward. The man states he would like a grain of wheat, doubling the amount with each square. At first, it sounds meaningless...one grain of wheat, then two, then four, then eight and so on. However, once you get to the last square (there are 64 squares on a chess board, by the way), you'll come up with over hundreds of trillions of grains of wheat (I actually tried to do this on my calculator, and I came up with 922,337,203,685,477,000 grains of wheat, just on the last square alone...so that isn't even the total summed up with the amount from the other 63 squares).

The exponential function relates to the percentage of growth that we, as humans, need to fully understand. We use resources (crude oil, trees, water, ect.), resources that take many, many years to produce. However, we are currently using resources at a rate greater than that that we can recover (kinda like our Social Security and Medicare benefits).

The exponential function also deals with the doubling time; meaning the time that it takes to grow by 100% (meaning double the number from a previous year).


Summary: if we don't find enough fuel to sustain our rate of use, then we are at peak production. So lets say that there are billions and billions of gallons of oil sitting under our feet...we still aren't drilling enough. This is the very meaning of Peak Oil.

Shall I continue with more, or can you figure it out from here?

 

[oregonshooter]

Gold is up! How can there be a collapse?

 

[mjbskwim]

Thanks




I think

 

[chemist]

Let's add one more little story to the Peak Oil motif:

Ever heard of the Moron's Million-Dollar Lottery? First prize is a dollar a year - for a million years!

What matters is the size of the TAP, not the size of the TANK.