Clint Smith on EDC

[RX-79G]

See I define people as "it." That way I never "misgender" anyone…..

View attachment 1431405

But I don't, so that doesn't make much sense.

 

[Member 53328]

But I don't, so that doesn't make much sense.

 

[msgriff]

See I define people as "it." That way I never "misgender" anyone…..

View attachment 1431405

 

[Member 53328]

View attachment 1431412

This thread is now on the fast track of a dumpster fire. Let me grab my marshmallows and crayons. I'll be right back!

 

[Member 53328]

I'm back.

 

[JohnnyMac]

Does he know that "likes" don't pay anything?

Sometimes "licks" do however....

 

[Paolung]

Nothing to do with faith. Just probability.

If we're wrong, we are *at most* inconvenienced.

If you're wrong, well… I don't need to spell it out.

The point is that one side of this disagreement can afford to be wrong, and it's not yours.

Again, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Obviously this has to be considered within a reasonable context. I don't see anyone here arguing for a full combat loadout with plate carriers and chest rigs etc. to go to Wally World and back.

But if someone wants to carry a bigger sized pistol an extra mag (s), what's the problem?

Is it that YOU don't think it's worth the trouble, or YOU are more risk-tolerant than some of us are?

You aren't us, and we aren't you. Different people have different tolerances for risk.

I don't know why that seems to perturb you.

 

[Paolung]

There are two problems with this report.

It is from 1987, when crime was higher.
And it doesn't include information about location. And that's the real issue here: Where you are determines your likelihood of being a victim of crime much more than just about anything else.

And almost no one on this thread lives in a place like South Chicago or Coahoma County, Mississippi. Those are the kinds of places that make the US violent crime stats as they are.

Correct, but I haven't seen a newer version (I also haven't spent a lot of time digging for one, so there may be one out there).

Feel free to crunch the numbers with the same methodological rigor for 2022 and let us know the results, if you like.

Bonus points if your results can be filtered for "high crime" areas like Chicago etc.

While we're on that topic, don't assume that because we don't live in Chicago etc. that none of us would ever go there. Some people travel quite a lot, either for employment reasons or otherwise.

 

[RX-79G]

Correct, but I haven't seen a newer version (I also haven't spent a lot of time digging for one, so there may be one out there).

Feel free to crunch the numbers with the same methodological rigor for 2022 and let us know the results, if you like.

Bonus points if your results can be filtered for "high crime" areas like Chicago etc.

While we're on that topic, don't assume that because we don't live in Chicago etc. that none of us would ever go there. Some people travel quite a lot, either for employment reasons or otherwise.

You can look up the murder murders of any city or county. Issaqhah, for instance, has zero murders most years going back to 2001.

The point is that one side of this disagreement can afford to be wrong, and it's not yours.

This would make sense if violent crime was the only chance of death you ever encounter, or even a leading chance of death. But given that the leading causes of death in WA doesn't put homicide even close to the top 10, I would argue that people don't seem all that risk adverse for a range of things.

Do you do everything you can to avoid accidents and falls?
Do you get a flu shot? 4 times as many people die of flu or pneumonia than homicide.
Do you smoke?

If carrying a bunch of stuff isn't inconvenient or uncomfortable - great. But people on this thread say it is, but do it anyway. Is that after they did everything they could for all the other dangers in life, or is being killed in a mugging especially horrifying?


Everybody should do exactly as they like. I'm just pointing out that self defense is now an industry, and Clint Smith is selling something. Is the quality of your life overall better because you focus on one danger much more than any other?

 

[Paolung]

Do you do everything you can to avoid accidents and falls?
Do you get a flu shot? 4 times as many people die of flu or pneumonia than homicide.
Do you smoke?

I do get a flu shot. I don't smoke.

I don't do EVERYTHING I can to avoid any sort of hazard, no.

And this goes back to what I said initially: it's not just about risk, it's about stakes.

I can live with myself if I slip and fall and get a boo boo.

I CANNOT live with myself if I get pounded into pulp (or worse) and my wife gets raped (or worse), and I reasonably could have prevented it by carrying more than you.

 

[Paolung]

Is the quality of your life overall better because you focus on one danger much more than any other?

It absolutely, positively, 100% is. The peace of mind of knowing I am doing what I can to prevent the most horrific events from coming to pass, even though I know there's no guarantee, is totally worth it to me and many others.

 

[Koda]

You can look up the murder murders of any city or county. Issaqhah, for instance, has zero murders most years going back to 2001.



This would make sense if violent crime was the only chance of death you ever encounter, or even a leading chance of death. But given that the leading causes of death in WA doesn't put homicide even close to the top 10, I would argue that people don't seem all that risk adverse for a range of things.

Do you do everything you can to avoid accidents and falls?
Do you get a flu shot? 4 times as many people die of flu or pneumonia than homicide.
Do you smoke?

If carrying a bunch of stuff isn't inconvenient or uncomfortable - great. But people on this thread say it is, but do it anyway. Is that after they did everything they could for all the other dangers in life, or is being killed in a mugging especially horrifying?


Everybody should do exactly as they like. I'm just pointing out that self defense is now an industry, and Clint Smith is selling something. Is the quality of your life overall better because you focus on one danger much more than any other?

Risk probability isnt the complete picture when it comes to preparedness. Consequences is almost always overlooked and intentionally overlooked by anti gunners, this is the first time Ive heard someone pro gun leave out the consequences from risk assessment.

Analogies are fine but not true comparisons. We have a higher risk of dying in a car wreck than we do getting shot but we brave driving in cars way way more than we do carry a gun. Most of us will get in at least one car accident in our lives and live.. because we took precautions like seat belts and drive modern cars with airbags and other industry safety standards. Are we complaining car safety is now an "industry"? Did the automotive industry by demand of its consumers focus too much on one danger more than other life risks?

What is wrong with trainers like Clint Smith selling a training program? Similar to the automotive safety industry, this will only save more lives. What is wrong with an industry that trains people to survive acts of violence?


The points your making about being uncomfortable, fearful, obsessed with a minority risk only probability are not true without including the consequence or outcome of the risk. Every one of those points are all used by the gun control but are a fallacy, if there was any truth to them guns would -naturally- be less popular.

 

[Paolung]

Reasons to carry extra mags and ammo

 

[Gbirk]

No rappelling gear or rebreather?

Or a change of underwear?

Honestly, some days a fresh shirt would be good after lunch.

 

[RX-79G]

Risk probability isnt the complete picture when it comes to preparedness. Consequences is almost always overlooked and intentionally overlooked by anti gunners, this is the first time Ive heard someone pro gun leave out the consequences from risk assessment.

Analogies are fine but not true comparisons. We have a higher risk of dying in a car wreck than we do getting shot but we brave driving in cars way way more than we do carry a gun. Most of us will get in at least one car accident in our lives and live.. because we took precautions like seat belts and drive modern cars with airbags and other industry safety standards. Are we complaining car safety is now an "industry"? Did the automotive industry by demand of its consumers focus too much on one danger more than other life risks?

What is wrong with trainers like Clint Smith selling a training program? Similar to the automotive safety industry, this will only save more lives. What is wrong with an industry that trains people to survive acts of violence?


The points your making about being uncomfortable, fearful, obsessed with a minority risk only probability are not true without including the consequence or outcome of the risk. Every one of those points are all used by the gun control but are a fallacy, if there was any truth to them guns would -naturally- be less popular.

Where do I start?
The consequence of all the things I compared was death. Who's ignoring consequences?

The car thing was not an analogy. Large, heavy vehicles are much more survivable than small, light ones. Hence the reason buses are so much safer than passenger vehicles. On the other end of the spectrum are motorcycles.

There's nothing wrong with Clint Smith selling something. But is Clint selling a necessity or a luxury? Different people will have an entirely different POV.

Don't know why you and others keep bringing up consequences when they are the same between all the comparisons. Death.

And your last point is a classic logical fallacy - if something is used by X, and we don't like X, it must not be true. All I'm pointing out is that the chances of you needing protection are so low, why not content yourself with a 7 shot 9mm the size of a wallet instead of a police duty load out? What are the chances that you'll ever need it, and if you did that it would not be sufficient? Astronomically small for the readers of this forum.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Honestly, some days a fresh shirt would be good after lunch.

Toad in the hole?

 

[RX-79G]

Reasons to carry extra mags and ammo

This is a much better argument for BUGs and the highest quality pistols that come with superlative mags and springs, like HK.

But then you wouldn't have reason to attend schools that focus on need for rapid reloading and clearance drills.

 

[Koda]

All I'm pointing out is that the chances of you needing protection are so low, why not content yourself with a 7 shot 9mm the size of a wallet instead of a police duty load out? What are the chances that you'll ever need it, and if you did that it would not be sufficient? Astronomically small for the readers of this forum.

I've already agreed that everything is a trade off, I'm quite content with my 7shot9mm edc. Except I'm not suggesting its entirely sufficient if needed. The difference is I'm not critical of anyone elses choices.

as far as super high quality pistols and BUGs you lost me there on so many levels.

 

[Member 53328]

Why does someone focus so heavily on what another individual carries?

Why is it a bad thing to train, shoot, practice reloads, shooting from a vehicle, etc?

It's my responsibility as a MAN (only 2 genders) to protect my family and the ones I love. Especially those who can't defend themselves. My commitment to my family will outweigh any argument or law against what I carry on my person. You can argue with me till you're blue in the face.

Not carrying gear or a firearm cause being in an altercation is unlikely is just as stupid as not wearing a seatbelt cause you don't expect to get in a crash.

Also - not everything carried is for a gun fight.

I use a light and knife everyday. Medical (TQ etc) can be used in work mishaps, vehicle accidents etc and can SAVE a life. Mags can fail. My gun hand could be trapped or pinned in a physical altercation and my other hand will gain access to my knife. They are all tools. The more options you have the better. - must be a military thing that was drilled into me.

But if you're someone who refuses to help, render aid, and just look the other way then just hope and pray nothing bad happens to you.

You prepare for what can happen. We have no way of knowing what will occur. I'd never be able to live with myself if something were to happen to a loved one and I could have done something about it but failed in the name of "comfort" "quality of life" or because someone thinks I am "paranoid."

 

[Koda]

The recent Texas mall shooting. Guy gets out of his car and just starts shooting at you with a rifle from maybe 25yards away. How content are you now with just a 7shot 9mm the size of a wallet and no spare mag?

Oh but the risk is super low. So low that nobody in America is trying to ban guns cause these things rarely happen.