Clearing your property at night with a weapon mounted light - when using your light turns into brandishing your weapon. (Menacing)

[Hawaiian]

I am not going outside. If they steal my car, so be it. Go out and have a high tweaker who is unarmed charge at you and you shoot him? You may well be charged. Or maybe there is more than one, and they are armed and then you might be toast. Not worth taking the chance. I will turn off the inside lights, hit them will a strobe from a window, they will hear my dog going crazy. My house alarm has outside sirens. I can set it off. I can also set off my car alarm. They should leave looking for an easier target. If they enter my home, different story.

 

[arcticrotwiler]

From my time working with Defense Lawyers, the first question usually asked is, "Did you call 911 first?" If you didn't they want to know why and the case usually takes a downward trend. That being said there are any number of reasons why you may have to disconnect from the call (e.g. proximity of unknown person(s), bad reception spot in you home, use your imagination), the point being you placed the call first. When my son and his roommate where assaulted in college, my son was able to break away, go grab is M1A1, and move out to assist/defend his roommate. Fortunately the attackers had moved off when he got back downstairs. When they called 911, because the attackers were not still there, the response took its time getting there (~20 min.)

 

[The Heretic]

Calling 911 because my lights outside detect motion is just going to get me on a list of crazy old men and women who 911 for the slightest little thing. Karens and Kens I think they call them?

How am I going to know someone is trying to break into my shop if I don't go look?

 

[ZigZagZeke]

In Oregon and Washington simple trespass on your property (outdoors) does not rise to the level of warranting a response of deadly force. Pointing a gun at someone is considered deadly force in both Oregon and Washington. There's also the moral question in addition to the legal. If someone's kid or adult with developmental disabilities wanders onto your property is it going to make you feel good to point a gun at them? What if it's an elderly neighbor who is lost in the dark? It's the Maslow's "if your only tool is a hammer you treat everything like a nail" issue. Get some other tools. Again, I want to emphasize that I am talking about outside the home, and simple trespass only.

Don't be this guy.


ACLDN does not consider themselves insurance and I believe they are suing the state of Washington right now.

Robert John Hilands is another example of the failure of our (non-existent) mental health system. After the fact, he was declared a danger to himself and others, and committed involuntarily for psychiatric treatment. Prior to 1970, when these people were referred by their relatives, or initially acted out and became known to authorities they were immediately involuntarily committed. Now, they are most often either summarily executed by the police in a crisis situation, or they go on the commit violent crimes and are then executed by the police. In the vast majority of these cases, there were people around these individuals who knew they were dangerous and often reported them repeatedly, only to be ignored by the police, the FBI, and the medical community in favor of "patients' rights". Typically, these days when an individual is referred by friends or family as a danger to themselves and others they are screened by an untrained doctor at an ER, and given a prescription for anti-depressants and an appointment for outpatient counseling a few weeks down the road. There's no official follow-up to see if any of that is taken advantage of. They then go on to commit crimes like mass shootings before taking themselves out.

Legally, when you are confronted with a trespasser outdoors, in general, whatever force is necessary to end the trespass is justified. Few of those trespasses would rise to the level of lethal force unless the trespasser in armed and threatening you. If you tell them to leave and they leave, that is as far as things should go. If you have to manhandle them in order to escort them from the premises that is usually permissible. If they credibly threaten immediate deadly force then all bets are off.

 

[revjen45]

If they're within range squirt 'em with a hose.

 

[Michael H]

This is where a barkless chihuahua would be the wrong choice.

no such thing as a barkless chihuahua

 

[sobo]

chihuahua

I hate those little ankle-bitin' rat-dogs... hate 'em with a passion... Supreme hatred!!!

 

[Koda]

5 pages and very little mention of the fact that trespassing is not a lethal threat.. Pulling a gun on a trespasser they have a legal right to defend themselves with deadly force. You dont clear your property with a WML.

 

[The Heretic]

5 pages and very little mention of the fact that trespassing is not a lethal threat.. Pulling a gun on a trespasser they have a legal right to defend themselves with deadly force. You dont clear your property with a WML.

If you knew there was a bear or cougar outside and they were messing with your animals or gear at night, would you "clear your property" with a WML?

 

[Koda]

If you knew there was a bear or cougar outside and they were messing with your animals or gear at night, would you "clear your property" with a WML?

Theres no law against pointing guns at animals, have at it.

 

[clearconscience]

Personally I would prefer to have a weapon light, but as a back up, for clearing or investigating I'd use a flashlight.

Pistol in the other hand kept behind me or holstered.

But when checking the yard/property I'd shut down all other lights.

The couple times I had to check my yard, I shut down all inside lights and outside lights.

Then go with a flashlight and pistol.

My big fear is a BG hiding in the dark corners who can see me and I can't see them.

 

[SonicBlue03]

Did anyone suggest living somewhere with a garage yet?

 

[ProteanDreams]

First this is likely going to seem truly weird. As a liberal gun owner and supporter of gun rights I would have to say that using your WML to search your own property would be perfectly fine. It seems kind of a stretch that you would be in for too much of an issue for brandishing especially if you were to come upon someone on your own property. We are talking about criminal trespass at this point so I think any defense or officer that is going to focus more on a WML or the idea of brandishing on a trespasser is clearly myopic and has lost sight of the actual need for their service and duty.

However, I've certainly seen weird instances of legal action against firearms owners so I also applaud the person who made mention of utilizing the right tool for the right job, this can certainly be to your benefit thanks to a rather short sighted approach to personal and home defense laws so it certainly is more to your own defense legally but as I said above, I, personally would stand by my right to utilize my WML to scan my own property line if there was threat of trespass or intruder. If someone is on your property or goodness forbid IN your property at a time when you need a WML then it should be pretty safe to assume that their intent is not one of good will.

 

[Koda]

Its kinda like scoping for deer with ....your scope. There are many reasons why pointing a gun at a tresspasser is not just unsafe, for both of you, but illegal. Tresspassing in itself does not put the landowners life in danger.

 

[EHJ]

Its kinda like scoping for deer with ....your scope. There are many reasons why pointing a gun at a tresspasser is not just unsafe, for both of you, but illegal. Tresspassing in itself does not put the landowners life in danger.

You don't live in my neighborhood.

But I'll respect your opinion.

 

[The Heretic]

Given that my property is 20 acres, half of it forest, the other half replant, plus the fact that I can and do legally shoot guns on my property, I don't anticipate issues with using a WML to clear my property at night.

Given that - I have neighbors on three sides of my house/shop area, plus a private road that neighbors use both for vehicles and walking their dogs, I am careful about where I point or shoot my firearms. I also keep my finger off the trigger to reduce the chance of a negligent discharge. Moreover, I use buckshot in my shotgun to reduce the range and likelihood of a shot making it thru the brush/trees and onto a neighbor's property or out to the road, not to mention the distance (which is 100-300 yards).

 

[Koda]

You don't live in my neighborhood.

But I'll respect your opinion.

I'm just citing the law, not my opinion. Its illegal to point a gun at someone whose not threatening your life. If a trespasser is putting your life in danger, why are you leaving the safety of your house and going to the danger, instead of calling the police?

 

[JRuby]

I'm just citing the law, not my opinion. Its illegal to point a gun at someone whose not threatening your life. If a trespasser is putting your life in danger, why are you leaving the safety of your house and going to the danger, instead of calling the police?

Once you identify it as a person agreed - however you dont know what is causing a problem many times when the dogs light off.

 

[Koda]

Once you identify it as a person agreed - however you dont know what is causing a problem many times when the dogs light off.

If one doesnt know what the problem is then why draw a gun and point at someone putting their life at risk who's potentially no risk to you?

 

[WillametteWill]

I, personally would stand by my right to utilize my WML to scan my own property line if there was threat of trespass or intruder.

First off, welcome to NWF and thanks for joining the thread! Remember, our "rights" extend until they infringe upon another person's rights. As others have pointed out, trespassing is not a deadly threat without other circumstance that you can articulate. It might not even be "criminal trespass" if a drunk person wanders onto your property. What if that person is an officer chasing a bad guy and now he sees someone pointing a gun at him?

We are all big boys and girls here and free to make our own choices. Hopefully threads like this provide us all with good food for thought to chew on.

If someone is on your property or goodness forbid IN your property at a time when you need a WML then it should be pretty safe to assume that their intent is not one of good will.

WORLD of difference between on your property and inside your home. The law sees these two locations differently because my home is highly defensible property, iffy on of the yard falls under this. But even inside my home I'm searching with a handheld. I have kids and a spouse.

There is about a 20 years to life difference between ~intent of ill will~ and a deadly force threat.

Again, welcome and thanks for contributing!