Clearing your property at night with a weapon mounted light - when using your light turns into brandishing your weapon. (Menacing)

po18guy

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The first was my bad. I guess.
The second time, the club removed and wheel destroyed. (Looked like they used a bottle jack?)
This third time - who knows.
I have security lights flooding my driveway and street.
It's an old car - slippery locks - doesn't owe me a dime.

What should impress you is that I got it back 2 times un harmed already! :)
Sounds like the same thief wanted it the second time. Then one of the two-wire alarms should do.

Anyway, car disappear at night. Household goods disappear in the day. Harden you car, harden your house. There are cheap and easy ways to do this.

As to patrolling your spread, at night I walk the length of my 500+/- foot driveway and back, offering prayer as I go. I wear an LED headlamp, which leaves hands free - one of which has a weapon against my chest. Tweekers? Maybe, but cougars and coyotes possibly and racoons definitely.
 
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The Heretic

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oldcorpgunny

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Last week my poor Honda was stolen for the 3rd - and most probably the last time. 280k miles - leaky rack - impending euthanasia - but still a loyal little car I had grown attached to. :(
So I quickly got on the phone to report her missing. (Last time she 'escaped' she apparently was an unwilling participant in a local crime spree!)
On hold for 35 minutes - but the officers arrived pretty quickly.

During our conversation I learned that over a dozen cars were lifted near here in only the previous 3 days. Lot of activity here in The Flats lately I guess.
Lots of property theft from homes, too. During our chat the subject of clearing a homeowners yard at night with a weapon and light came up.
It was on the fly. I had never thought about the situation before and the question came up - When does my using my weapon light as illumination tool (on my own property) turn into a menacing / brandishing event should I find someone hiding in my yard? (ORS 166.190 ; ORS 166.220)

As far as he was concerned - if I found a trespasser on my property he'd feel it reasonable that I would be naturally fearful, which would justify my 'light' turning into my 'weapon'. We went back and forth on the topic and agreed it was a head scratch-er - but he also warned me that just because an officer could give a pass - anyone else down hill of his report (DA's office) could reinterpret it as straight brandishing (menacing) if they really wanted. No guarantees. Especially with today's politics motivating every action by city council.

Just wanted to share and see what other's opinions would be. Up until then I had never given it a thought. But now that I have (Port Sumter!) I realize that short of a reasonable and fair officer showing on scene and helping with creative report writing - this could get messy as hell with the wrong perspective.
I think that you've hit the nail squarely on the head with your observation about the political climate. It seems that liberals are stumbling all over themselves trying to demonstrate how sensitive they are to those that simply want to steal your possessions. You face an uphill battle to keep what is yours and protect those that you love,
 

Howard1955

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Last week my poor Honda was stolen for the 3rd - and most probably the last time. 280k miles - leaky rack - impending euthanasia - but still a loyal little car I had grown attached to. :(
So I quickly got on the phone to report her missing. (Last time she 'escaped' she apparently was an unwilling participant in a local crime spree!)
On hold for 35 minutes - but the officers arrived pretty quickly.

During our conversation I learned that over a dozen cars were lifted near here in only the previous 3 days. Lot of activity here in The Flats lately I guess.
Lots of property theft from homes, too. During our chat the subject of clearing a homeowners yard at night with a weapon and light came up.
It was on the fly. I had never thought about the situation before and the question came up - When does my using my weapon light as illumination tool (on my own property) turn into a menacing / brandishing event should I find someone hiding in my yard? (ORS 166.190 ; ORS 166.220)

As far as he was concerned - if I found a trespasser on my property he'd feel it reasonable that I would be naturally fearful, which would justify my 'light' turning into my 'weapon'. We went back and forth on the topic and agreed it was a head scratch-er - but he also warned me that just because an officer could give a pass - anyone else down hill of his report (DA's office) could reinterpret it as straight brandishing (menacing) if they really wanted. No guarantees. Especially with today's politics motivating every action by city council.

Just wanted to share and see what other's opinions would be. Up until then I had never given it a thought. But now that I have (Port Sumter!) I realize that short of a reasonable and fair officer showing on scene and helping with creative report writing - this could get messy as hell with the wrong perspective.
When my alarm system went on the fritz last night, I found myself walking around the outside of our little farmhouse (currently a construction zone) to see if I could find out why the alarm had quit working.

With the possibility in mind that I might be confronting a crew of four or five thieves, I armed myself with a Cz Scorpion Micro and went exploring. Yes I did use the WML to look around, and to keep from tripping over equipment or falling into a hole.

My takeaway from that little excursion is: I really, really don’t want to shoot anyone. But, if someone is willing to break into my house, they probably are willing to attack an old codger like me. So, yeah, I’ll threaten them by walking around on my own place with a gun at the ready - and if need be, I’ll protect myself.

Thankfully, there wasn’t a problem of that sort. It was just an unexplained glitch in the security system, which has now resolved.

As to the question of the wisdom of using a weapon-mounted light: Maybe it would make me less of a target if I used a handheld flashlight instead of the WML - but it would also make me slower if I needed the weapon. I’d have to drop the flashlight, get the weapon at the ready, etc. I’m slow enough as it is, so I just chose to poke around with the weapon.

Regarding the current political climate, and the hand-wringing leftists who want to coddle criminals while denigrating the law-abiding citizens: I think they’re nuts. I feel sorry for you all who live in cities where you have to put up with such nonsense.
 
This is one of many reasons I never could cotton to a weaponmounted light! All my years in the mil. And we never used mounted lights ( even when issued/required) as it was simply basackwards to doing the job proper! Imagine doing a sneak and peek, or countering an ambush, yup, a mounted light was suicide in my line of work, hell, a squadron of fire flys in formation indicated trit sights on pistols, so we usually put tape over the rears and worked the problem! I was trained to do sweep and clear and all the other fun stuff with my weapon at the low ready on a 1-2 count, and a light ( if a light was ever used) was a low powered unit in the off hand and flashed as needed at the ground or at least below line of sight, which has the advantages of not messing up your night vision or your potential for sight alignment!
Yea, I can see advantages to having a mounted light, but experience has shown me how to do with out, and to be every bit as effective at it! Even more so if you have N.O.D, then lights are a serious handicap! I learned to own the night, and even today, I still do!
 

Certaindeaf

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The first was my bad. I guess.
The second time, the club removed and wheel destroyed. (Looked like they used a bottle jack?)
This third time - who knows.
I have security lights flooding my driveway and street.
It's an old car - slippery locks - doesn't owe me a dime.

What should impress you is that I got it back 2 times un harmed already! :)
To augment my steering wheel lock, I just ordered a "fake car alarm light" on Amazon prime because I too drive a stealable beater. $9, solar, usb, blue flashing LED.
I had a few battery powered red ones years ago but they'd eat their AAA batteries like crazy so stopped using them.
 
OP
EHJ

EHJ

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To augment my steering wheel lock, I just ordered a "fake car alarm light" on Amazon prime because I too drive a stealable beater. $9, solar, usb, blue flashing LED.
I had a few battery powered red ones years ago but they'd eat their AAA batteries like crazy so stopped using them.
I think you and I are neighbors from I gather.
Closest one here to understanding how it really feels to live among The Night Walking Dead every night.

Just wait - Mt Scott turns into a 24 hour access dormitory end of the month. :(
 

Certaindeaf

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I think you and I are neighbors from I gather.
Closest one here to understanding how it really feels to live among The Night Walking Dead every night.

Just wait - Mt Scott turns into a 24 hour access dormitory end of the month. :(
Yep, I live in the hood.. probably pretty close to FF proper. Plenty of night walkers.
 

The Heretic

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To augment my steering wheel lock, I just ordered a "fake car alarm light" on Amazon prime because I too drive a stealable beater. $9, solar, usb, blue flashing LED.
I had a few battery powered red ones years ago but they'd eat their AAA batteries like crazy so stopped using them.
One of the reasons BMWs have less theft is because of the alarm systems. For several decades they have had the "clown nose" installed right under the interior mirror. Programmed properly, it flashes - somewhat randomly - whether an alarm is installed or not - when the doors are locked and the car parked with nobody inside it. Non-owners cannot tell whether there is an alarm installed or not and they have to assume there is one installed and armed - as most of them do have an alarm. Also, the key is crypto enabled and it is hard to "hot wire" the ignition.

I had the dealer program my 2004 Bimmer to flash, even though it did not have an alarm (it was the economy model). My 2014 X1 does have an alarm. No problems with theft with either car.

Older Toyotas and Hondas are much more popular for theft because their parts are in demand as they are a popular/ubiquitous vehicle, many do not have alarms and are easy to steal.
 

The Heretic

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It is an Orwellian world in which the thief is victim and the owner is guilty of menacing.
It is about power; if a person defends themselves (or their property) with force, then that reduces the power of the of those in office, from LEOs up thru the judicial and legislative all the way to the POTUS.

 

po18guy

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Paraphrasing: "An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject."

Look at Australia. The federal department governments have imposed absolutely draconian covid measures and patrol the streets in platoons to enforce it. Sadly, the Aussies allowed themselves to be disarmed after certain tragic shootings. It's a green light to criminals and the government - but I repeat myself.
 
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1) "And so would any rational person."
Rationality and THE LAW have nothing to do with each other, especially when the DA/AG uses it as a political weapon.

2) "But at least half the time I am also using a small light clipped to the bill of my ball cap as a headlamp."
"If there's an armed bad guy in those bushes, the most likely thing he will aim for is your flashlight."
Are you sure you want the light mounted on your head?

3) "For example: situation is two teenage kids fighting, would you: (1) ignore, (2) observe and call cops, (3) call cops and leave, (4) intervene etc. ..."
(1). It's none of my business. The cops get paid to deal with such. I don't. I have found MYOB to be a good principle to follow in nearly every circumstance. I don't really care if 2 kids are fighting. It doesn't affect me.

4) "Tweekers prowl. They steal. Cars, guns, your possessions inside your house. They drive stolen cars and they carry stolen guns. They possess and use burglar tools: wrenches, tire irons, pry bars. All are capable of inflicting a fatal wound ..."
A screwdriver is the night prowlers' multi-tool: pry things open, stab somebody etc. same for the other stuff. IIRC, unless it's sharpened a screwdriver isn't a weapon in the eyes of THE LAW. I could be wrong of course.

5) Given how The Left has a record of taking everything to the point of abyssmal absurdity it's a good bet that the legalization of theft will end up applying to every misdemeanor, except for those that are gun-related. THE LAW is there to protect the bums, drunks, junkies, tweakers, vagrants, etc. who infest the Blue Cesspools - not the productive or the honest.
TPTB belch about respect for THE LAW without realizing that trust and respect must be earned. Obedience can be demanded and fear can be sown - not the case for trust and respect. The current legal schema has earned distrust and fear by the honest and the productive. Maybe things aren't getting worse, only more obvious.
 

The Heretic

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2) "But at least half the time I am also using a small light clipped to the bill of my ball cap as a headlamp."
"If there's an armed bad guy in those bushes, the most likely thing he will aim for is your flashlight."
Are you sure you want the light mounted on your head?
Yes. Because of where I live. I understand that living on a rural (actually, more than rural) mountain surrounded by forest is not the usual situation for most people, but the probability of encountering humans with bad intentions is really low up here. The probability is much higher that I will encounter a bear, cougar, feral dog, skunk, porcupine or neighbor's cat - all of which have been on my property. In those cases they won't be shooting back at me, but I will want to have both hands free to hold my Mossberg Shockwave.

Even neighbors rarely knock on my door, and even more rarely after dark. I get more delivery drivers dropping off Amazon stuff and ammo than I do other humans.

The other night I got up from my recliner to get a drink and noticed that the motion activated porch light was on. I also noticed that the door lights/etc. were on on my car (parked in front of my porch) and the doors were unlocked.

I think I hit the button on my remote (been known to do that when it is in my pocket when I am snoozing on the recliner). Just in case, I got the shotgun (with laser and light turned on) and my large flashlight and looked around outside. I think the lights on the car may have triggered the porch light - I will have to test that some night - I can't think of anything else that would cause that.
 

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