Clearing your property at night with a weapon mounted light - when using your light turns into brandishing your weapon. (Menacing)

[WillametteWill]

The first time I was coached by a responding Supervisor - the second, a Multnomah Co DA actually interviewed me and outlined what my statement should reflect.

I don't doubt what you said happened at all. But to count on this, especially in Mult. Co. respectfully is not a good plan overall. The fact that you got to the point where you were being interviewed by a Deputy DA is far from good. If their tendencies leaned toward their current boss you could have done everything correct and still been on trial, spending tens of thousands of dollars and possibly losing your freedom.

As others have noted, taking advice from LEO on this subject is sketchy and inconsistent at best (I've either been an LEO or training them for 35 years now so I have seen this first hand more times than I can count). Many of them do not know what the DA's are looking for in self defense cases because they are fairly uncommon.

Circling back to the OP of searching with a WML, life in these situations is about risk exposure mitigation. I understand we all have different thresholds for our actions (i.e. do we go outside and search?) and live in different locations (i.e. police are 20+ minutes away at best). These vary for each of us. Having pointed guns at lots of people over the years I know you have to be exceptionally on your game when doing so. Knowing that startle response, training, weapon selection, terrain and literally hundreds of other things are important factors in this. ABSOLUTELY NOT accusing or directing this at anyone here, but I have talked with countless people who just cluelessly do not understand these factors, rarely if every do any type of training and only shoot their firearms rarely (BTW, many of these include old school retired cops).

Many of us here get training (@sobo has detailed his night shooting training, awesome!) and others study legal issues and other rules of engagement, fantastic as well. Greatly appreciate threads like this that provide different perspectives that I may have not considered and training I many not be aware of. Hopefully we all walk away better prepared and willing to consider other points of view.

 

[EHJ]

I don't doubt what you said happened at all. But to count on this, especially in Mult. Co. respectfully is not a good plan overall. The fact that you got to the point where you were being interviewed by a Deputy DA is far from good. If their tendencies leaned toward their current boss you could have done everything correct and still been on trial, spending tens of thousands of dollars and possibly losing your freedom.

Thank you for the advice. (And your service!)

Just to be clear (with you and others) - I have never sauntered around with any thoughts of, "I'm gonna make me a citizens arrest!"
The first instance I rescued a dog from a drunken abuser who was swinging the poor thing against a wall by the end of its leash. After failing to convince him to stop physical action took its course. The responding Supervisor informed me that I could not come at it from the standpoint of 'saving the dog' - (you can't protect a persons 'personal property' from themselves) - instead I was clued to the fact that I was "detaining an animal abuse suspect" who fought back/resisted.

The second time (1993..?) I was an assault victim who fought back - and then pursued my attacker and... 'detained' him. The DA's at that time were much more helpful and sympathetic than those today - to be sure - but at that time I was in no danger of prosecution at all. Turns out the guy had warrants for some heavy stuff. They were just making sure my case was solid - they needed my 'detention' act to be clean so they could pursue their additional charges and keep him incarcerated.

Today - I want no attention from downtown. Neither do the beat cops in my neighborhood.

But yeah - I'm the guy who will chase you out of a neighbors yard and down the street with a big stick yelling like a banshee.

 

[WillametteWill]

Just to be clear (with you and others) - I have never sauntered around with any thoughts of, "I'm gonna make me a citizens arrest!"

Nor did I take you as that...but the banshee visual is awesome!

 

[EHJ]

 

[solv3nt]

 

[EHJ]

Screw it.
THIS is my new weapon light.
32,000 lumens.

If you're blind - you'll never see where it came from.

X80GT Powerful Flashlight

X80GT is a powerful searchlight. Small in size like a coke can, very suitable for carrying in a narrow space such as a cave. The 18 LED lamp beads are driven by a high-efficiency circuit and reach an astonishing 32500lm brightness.

www.acebeam.com

 

[Camelfilter]

In California some shlub was prosecuted because someone saw through his closed storm door, him holding a gun so anything is possible.

Older thread, didn't review it was posted up in this thread or in its own (on a phone/can't easily scan thread):

A few years back there was a homeowner in South Carolina whom was shot by a responding deputy. On accident.

Through the homeowners door/frosted door glass. Because the homeowner was carrying a handgun…

Gives even more pause to how WE should act if outside & fireams in hand. Brandishing or not…

 

[Koda]

Thread resurrection s give me a chance to go back and see if what I said years ago was dumb af....

 

[Mikej]

Thread resurrection s give me a chance to go back and see if what I said years ago was dumb af....

In 2020 there was a fraction of the crime too! And police would even show up at your house in a timely manner.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Use an infrared system.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Re light as a weapon it's a great question imo and we need to keep asking these questions over and over to determine what the risks are and what is legal.

I think this is one where u use common sense. Use of deadly force (such as a gun) has specific circumstances where it is ok. The person using deadly force will have to deal with the consequences of that, including explaining why their life was at risk etc etc

Threatening deadly force, again there are possible consequences but those would be more minor than using deadly force of course.

Defending yourself from attack with other weapons, threatening someone with other weapons, etc is all more murky and again the person would have to deal with potential consequences. I know one guy who walked towards his neighbor in a threatening manner (they have been squabbling for years) with a shovel in his hand (no physical altercation at all). Cost him many many thousands of dollars in court and he was worried about going to jail over it.

I say read the laws for ur area. Then re-read them. Then ask attorney if u really want to. Then re-read them. Then lay out a general plan for what U would do in potential situations u run into.

For example: situation is two teenage kids fighting, would you: (1) ignore, (2) observe and call cops, (3) call cops and leave, (4) intervene etc. the more you have planned it out in advance the easier for you to know what to do. Then repeat for other likely scenarios.

I think a vehicle is even more of a grey area. If someone comes up to your car threateningly And is pounding on your window (not to break it but let's say he was mad or crazy) with no weapon visible, what can u do? Using the car to push them off could be assault or ? Can they actually harm you or persons in the car if windows are up and doors are locked? could u point a loaded gun at the person legally? Etc etc - lots of questions.

Striking your occupied car is legally assault in most cases. Anything you are carrying counts too. The law school example is a person committing assault by striking an umbrella carried by another person.

 

[Koda]

actually re-reading this thread its actually a good discussion worth recapping.

 

[American123]

Use an infrared system.

Sound advice. If you can see and potential adversaries can't, that's ideal. You can always white light after initial contact if that is what is desired.

 

[sobo]

Sound advice. If you can see and potential adversaries can't, that's ideal. You can always white light after initial contact if that is what is desired.

And then after white lighting them, you can really "light 'em up"...

 

[Dr Prepper]

And then after white lighting lightening them, you can really "light 'em up"...

Something a little bit kinda like this:

 

[WillametteWill]

Very appropriate thread resurrection, more like revival.

Thread resurrection s give me a chance to go back and see if what I said years ago was dumb af....

Amen. This was a good thread to review. Lots of healthy discussion.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Indeed, I saw this video last night as well and then saw this thread and had to dive in. I always liked the idea of hand help lights. I have one SBAL-PL and although its nice, it just kinda rubs me wrong. Now I think I know why. Makes more sense for a long gun..

 

[Koda]

The Mas video was excellent and worth taking to heart. Its interesting he covered exactly something I rebuttled originally back in this discussion (page 6) against searching with the WML pointed at the ground using the WMLs light "spillover". I was right... dont do it.

(queued up to the point...)

 

[Certaindeaf]

actually re-reading this thread its actually a good discussion worth recapping.

You spelled kneecapping wrong.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Yeah not to mention, (but of course I will) will the person whos eyes are washed out *by the bright light be able to positively say you DIDN'T point it directly at them. We all know how facts and acute attention *to detail* are the very first things to go in witness accounts. Now a days its "pointed at you" if they even see a gun period.