Clearing your property at night with a weapon mounted light - when using your light turns into brandishing your weapon. (Menacing)

[sobo]

Oh man wait til you find out you can call people in other countries without having to travel there!

No sh!t, really? How does I git me wunnadoze t'ings? That would be awesomer!

 

[DukeLancington]

No sh!t, really? How does I git me wunnadoze t'ings? That would be awesomer!

Anyway it doesn't really matter why they were trespassing, thoughtcrimes are not a thing. It doesn't meet the standard for deadly force and is in fact a completely insane response... we Oregonians are lucky we didn't lose any self-defense rights after that. Like what happened in Washington when some lunatic killed a man who broke into his house and told the police he did it not because he feared for his life but because "it was his right" to do so. Now home invasions require the same standards as any other use of deadly force- a reasonable fear of losing life or limb imminently and unavoidably.

 

[sobo]

Like what happened in Washington when some lunatic killed a man who broke into his house and told the police he did it not because he feared for his life but because "it was his right" to do so.

That was a pretty dumb response...

 

[po18guy]

Last week my poor Honda was stolen for the 3rd - and most probably the last time. 280k miles - leaky rack - impending euthanasia - but still a loyal little car I had grown attached to.
So I quickly got on the phone to report her missing. (Last time she 'escaped' she apparently was an unwilling participant in a local crime spree!)
On hold for 35 minutes - but the officers arrived pretty quickly.

During our conversation I learned that over a dozen cars were lifted near here in only the previous 3 days. Lot of activity here in The Flats lately I guess.
Lots of property theft from homes, too. During our chat the subject of clearing a homeowners yard at night with a weapon and light came up.
It was on the fly. I had never thought about the situation before and the question came up - When does my using my weapon light as illumination tool (on my own property) turn into a menacing / brandishing event should I find someone hiding in my yard? (ORS 166.190 ; ORS 166.220)

As far as he was concerned - if I found a trespasser on my property he'd feel it reasonable that I would be naturally fearful, which would justify my 'light' turning into my 'weapon'. We went back and forth on the topic and agreed it was a head scratch-er - but he also warned me that just because an officer could give a pass - anyone else down hill of his report (DA's office) could reinterpret it as straight brandishing (menacing) if they really wanted. No guarantees. Especially with today's politics motivating every action by city council.

Just wanted to share and see what other's opinions would be. Up until then I had never given it a thought. But now that I have (Port Sumter!) I realize that short of a reasonable and fair officer showing on scene and helping with creative report writing - this could get messy as hell with the wrong perspective.

Tweekers prowl. They steal. Cars, guns, your possessions inside your house. They drive stolen cars and they carry stolen guns. They possess and use burglar tools: wrenches, tire irons, pry bars. All are capable of inflicting a fatal wound. It is reasonable to treat them both as criminals and as armed until you know otherwise. Since this is a nighttime crime spree, and knowing all of the above, do not fear.

A flashlight by itself is fairly useless against an armed criminal.

 

[EHJ]

Tweekers prowl. They steal. Cars, guns, your possessions inside your house. They drive stolen cars and they carry stolen guns. They possess and use burglar tools: wrenches, tire irons, pry bars. All are capable of inflicting a fatal wound. It is reasonable to treat them both as criminals and as armed until you know otherwise. Since this is a nighttime crime spree, and knowing all of the above, do not fear.

That's pretty much sums up the Felony Flats "Justifiable Fearfulness" mantra.

 

[awshoot]

Interesting. I wonder why the two decedents were dropped off at the property and trespassed in the first place...
...

They were homeless and the shooter had many buildings on his property -- yeah -- they were there to steal things for meth money. But we have to remember we live in WA and all that means. Look at what is in the works for Seattle -- if you are a meth-head you can do all the stealing you want so long as you keep it at misdemeanor levels (about $1000 I think $750), legally (if it passes):

Seattle City Council shows support for changes to allow poverty, addiction, and mental illness as defense for misdemeanor crimes — but legislation will probably have to wait

The City Council on Wednesday debated a budget proposal that would lead to making poverty, mental illness, and addiction possible defenses for people accused of misdemeanor crimes in Seattle. The p…

www.capitolhillseattle.com

EDIT: Misdemeanor theft is $750: RCW 9A.56.050: Theft in the third degree.

 

[sobo]

Seattle City Council shows support for changes to allow poverty, addiction, and mental illness as defense for misdemeanor crimes — but legislation will probably have to wait

The City Council on Wednesday debated a budget proposal that would lead to making poverty, mental illness, and addiction possible defenses for people accused of misdemeanor crimes in Seattle. The p…

www.capitolhillseattle.com

Why does sh!t like this not surprise me....?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

It is also possible to illuminate the area in front of one with a WML at low ready without flagging/sweeping people. My trainer uses this approach with us.
It requires a WML with high lumens, say, at least 300 lumens. Much higher than what comes with your basic MagLite/flashlight.
I use a SureFire X-300U-A Ultra, 500 lumens. It casts quite the beam, and quite the "halo" when at low ready.

That's the first thing I thought of also. I have an inexpensive but effective 1000 lumen light on one of my HD guns and it lights up a pretty huge area. I know they also make some lights that are "zoomable" to get a narrow beam or wide flood. Mine is not zoomable but pointing at the ground in the general direction of someone will make them very visible (not same level of detail as pointing directly at them of course).

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Tweekers prowl. They steal. Cars, guns, your possessions inside your house. They drive stolen cars and they carry stolen guns. They possess and use burglar tools: wrenches, tire irons, pry bars. All are capable of inflicting a fatal wound. It is reasonable to treat them both as criminals and as armed until you know otherwise. Since this is a nighttime crime spree, and knowing all of the above, do not fear.

A flashlight by itself is fairly useless against an armed criminal.

Also FYI homeless around here all also often armed. Armed with whatever they can get, which is often a sharp or big rock and also very often a knife. This is from people who deal with homeless here and also my own experience of one of them breaking into my yard from the neighbors roof. He took a sharp pointed rock from the garden and dropped it after the security lights kicked on.

 

[awshoot]

Why does sh!t like this not surprise me....?

Because you know that our leaders in this state don't care about you in the least degree.

 

[sobo]

Well, there is that...

 

[po18guy]

There should not be a second time your car is stolen. Clubs work against these idiots (and before some wise-@$$ shows a YouTube video, we are not talking about laboratory conditions and a trained locksmith here). Easily installed car alarms work because tweekers strongly desire stealth. Take that away from them by informing the entire neighborhood with an alarm siren and they will slink away like cockroaches in the light.

They are like like air leaking from an inner tube: they take the path of least resistance. Make your neighborhood "difficult" by having hardened targets: Clubs and alarms. You cannot prevent them from stealing, but you can make your home and neighborhood far less desirable to steal in. They will then drive their stolen car to someone else's neighborhood.

They like guns. They use guns. Therefore...

Dress for the weather.

 

[WillametteWill]

It is also possible to illuminate the area in front of one with a WML at low ready without flagging/sweeping people. My trainer uses this approach with us.

Depends on the light pattern but you want as much (primary) light on a person whose hands you are watching, eye movement you are detecting, waistband area where you are looking for weapons, etc. That is what my 1,000 lumen handheld is for (even thought my WML is 1,000 lumens too) <<<note sunglasses, because my flashlight (and future) is so bright, I gotta wear shades. (That's for you @sobo, because I know, you know that song!)

Agree that using your WML without sweeping is a good skill to have if you no longer have you handheld available. A shotgun WML is handy when you don't have an extra hand.

 

[EHJ]

There should not be a second time your car is stolen.

The first was my bad. I guess.
The second time, the club removed and wheel destroyed. (Looked like they used a bottle jack?)
This third time - who knows.
I have security lights flooding my driveway and street.
It's an old car - slippery locks - doesn't owe me a dime.

What should impress you is that I got it back 2 times un harmed already!

 

[sobo]

Depends on the light pattern but you want as much (primary) light on a person whose hands you are watching, eye movement you are detecting, waistband area where you are looking for weapons, etc. That is what my 1,000 lumen handheld is for (even thought my WML is 1,000 lumens too) <<<note sunglasses, because my flashlight (and future) is so bright, I gotta wear shades. (That's for you @sobo, because I know, you know that song!)

Agree that using your WML without sweeping is a good skill to have if you no longer have you handheld available. A shotgun WML is handy when you don't have an extra hand.

Sure, no argument. But once the halo of light has illuminated an intruder in your midst, then raising the gun/WML will completely illuminate, if not outright (temporarily) blind, the interloper. At this point, carry on with your surveillance of the intruder as you state above, with the intruder's sight destroyed as their rods and cones are scrambled...

And yes, Timbuk 3's only hit, during my college daze (days)...

 

[The Heretic]

There are diffuser lenses filters that spread out the light much more evenly and light up a wider area.

I have one of these on one of my weapon mounted lights and on a large handheld light it works very well

 

[2gunnztoo]

Yoou know, that would be a great threat, personal defense attorney expense.
I don't ride the fence, I'm both feet planted strongly on one side & never because I couldn't decide & just feel on what every side. I like the e-z stuff though, God, country, defense(gunnz).

 

[2gunnztoo]

Yoou know, that would be a great threatd personal defense attorney expense.
I don't ride the fence, I'm both feet planted strongly on one side & never because I couldn't decide & just feel on what every side. I like the e-z stuff though, God, country, defense(gunnz).

 

[2gunnztoo]

Interesting. I wonder why the two decedents were dropped off at the property and trespassed in the first place...

Correct. It is my understanding that all of the outfits that were banned by the IC are also suing the State. As they rightly should. That would include the ACLDN, NRA, USCCA, CW Safe, etc.

"Interesting. I wonder why the two decedents were dropped off at the property and trespassed in the first place..." DFS(datfunnysh-t) LMAO

 

[2gunnztoo]

Anyway it doesn't really matter why they were trespassing, thoughtcrimes are not a thing. It doesn't meet the standard for deadly force and is in fact a completely insane response... we Oregonians are lucky we didn't lose any self-defense rights after that. Like what happened in Washington when some lunatic killed a man who broke into his house and told the police he did it not because he feared for his life but because "it was his right" to do so. Now home invasions require the same standards as any other use of deadly force- a reasonable fear of losing life or limb imminently and unavoidably.

"thoughtcrimes are not a thing." Yet! da commies are workin' on it, bastards!!!