Clearing your property at night with a weapon mounted light - when using your light turns into brandishing your weapon. (Menacing)

[Koda]

Yeah not to mention, (but of course I will) will the person who eyes are washed out be able to coherently say you DIDN'T point it directly at them. We all know how facts and acute attention are the very first things to go in witness accounts. Now a days its "pointed at you" if they even see a gun period.

now imagine if it was a cop searching for a suspect....

 

[Koda]

You spelled kneecapping wrong.

kneecappings for ice skaters. recappings for gangstas... ;P

 

[American123]

now imagine if it was a cop searching for a suspect....

What color is the cop and what color is the suspect? These details make the difference whether the local neighborhood is getting burned down or not in the aftermath.

 

[bradsteen]

I think it's infinitely preferable to use the light independent of the firearm because they are two distinct tools - one to illuminate/identify my surroundings, and the other to respond to a threat. That being said, I have a WML on virtually every long gun... I figure if both hands are operating the weapon, a WML makes sense because you don't have an alternative. With a WML on a pistol I see minimal upside and a lot of potential downside.

Firearm Safety Rule # 2 says don't aim at anything you don't intend to destroy. For this reason I won't bring out the long gun/WML unless necessary (multiple threats, SHTF, etc) because I don't want to point or even give the IMPRESSION of pointing a gun at somebody who I haven't identified as a threat. Low-ready or not, Sul or not, in my opinion the risk is just too high. I've seen too many stories of "homeowner shoots [insert loved one] thinking they were a burglar" to think it couldn't happen to me, and I don't want to be mistaken for a threat if it's the police looking for a suspect.

Then again, I'm also not going out and searching for trouble. If I hear crap happening outside my home and suspect criminal activity, I'm locking my doors, arming myself, and calling the police. I may try to shine a light on that activity from the safety of my home and issue verbal commands for them to depart, but that's about it. The ONLY situation where I'm going out to confront them is if there is an imminent threat to life or safety. I am my family's last line of defense - my number one priority is their safety, and I can't very well protect them if I'm dead.

If some crackhead steals my car, fine. I will report it stolen and let the cops do their thing. Does it suck? Of course - it's my property. But to me that property is not worth potentially dying or killing someone else over. If he/she breaks into my home, that's a completely different story - then there is demonstrable intent to cause harm, and I will respond accordingly.

This is my method - you may have a different one. It's your life, your property, and ultimately your problem to solve; use your best judgement, and hopefully it will keep you alive and out of jail. As my wife likes to say, "when you're an adult there are no 'rules'... only consequences".

 

[Yarome]

I learned a long time ago not to comment on this topic. There are far too many tacticool folk who obviously know more than anyone else on the subject.

It's nice to see a universally recognized expert in his field put out a "here's what's what" informational. Hopefully it will take root.

I'm not suggesting "take em off", but carefully consider if you need one in the first place, how you intend to use it, and it would sure be nice to see more people (or "any" actually) training with a handheld as part of normal training exercises. Train with what you'll use, right??

One thing to remember (context taken from the video), transitioning from your handheld to a gun light, seemlessly, isn't exactly easy, secondnature and does add a fraction of lag to response time. You've already blown up your night vision so any lag between activating your gun light and bringing it to bear on target before dropping your handheld will result in a sight and situational picture loss. Lighting changes as well can potentially have an impact as your eyes refocus and reprocess what's in front of you.

Train, train, train...

 

[Yarome]

I think it's infinitely preferable to use the light independent of the firearm because they are two distinct tools - one to illuminate/identify my surroundings, and the other to respond to a threat. That being said, I have a WML on virtually every long gun... I figure if both hands are operating the weapon, a WML makes sense because you don't have an alternative. With a WML on a pistol I see minimal upside and a lot of potential downside.

Agreed. With a long gun/ar style pistol, I would still use a primary handheld light, however, with that type of platform, transitioning to a gun light is pretty much a requirement. With a handgun, it's optional, and IMHO, the less desireable option.

 

[Stomper]

 

[WillametteWill]

I think it's infinitely preferable to use the light independent of the firearm because they are two distinct tools - one to illuminate/identify my surroundings, and the other to respond to a threat. That being said, I have a WML on virtually every long gun... I figure if both hands are operating the weapon, a WML makes sense because you don't have an alternative. With a WML on a pistol I see minimal upside and a lot of potential downside.

Firearm Safety Rule # 2 says don't aim at anything you don't intend to destroy. For this reason I won't bring out the long gun/WML unless necessary (multiple threats, SHTF, etc) because I don't want to point or even give the IMPRESSION of pointing a gun at somebody who I haven't identified as a threat. Low-ready or not, Sul or not, in my opinion the risk is just too high. I've seen too many stories of "homeowner shoots [insert loved one] thinking they were a burglar" to think it couldn't happen to me, and I don't want to be mistaken for a threat if it's the police looking for a suspect.

Then again, I'm also not going out and searching for trouble. If I hear crap happening outside my home and suspect criminal activity, I'm locking my doors, arming myself, and calling the police. I may try to shine a light on that activity from the safety of my home and issue verbal commands for them to depart, but that's about it. The ONLY situation where I'm going out to confront them is if there is an imminent threat to life or safety. I am my family's last line of defense - my number one priority is their safety, and I can't very well protect them if I'm dead.

If some crackhead steals my car, fine. I will report it stolen and let the cops do their thing. Does it suck? Of course - it's my property. But to me that property is not worth potentially dying or killing someone else over. If he/she breaks into my home, that's a completely different story - then there is demonstrable intent to cause harm, and I will respond accordingly.

This is my method - you may have a different one. It's your life, your property, and ultimately your problem to solve; use your best judgement, and hopefully it will keep you alive and out of jail. As my wife likes to say, "when you're an adult there are no 'rules'... only consequences".

Beautifully stated.

because I don't want to point or even give the IMPRESSION of pointing a gun at somebody who I haven't identified as a threat.

Yes, this...witnesses are human and fallible so don't give them something (i.e., pointing a firearm close to but not at someone), if there is a better way.

I learned a long time ago not to comment on this topic.

Naaaa, comment away. There have been many topics like this where very respected members have differing opinions, this one included. I love hearing and discussing other perspectives that challenge my current world view, especially on topics like this. As long as we are nice and don't stick out tongues out at each other

Speaking of challenging your views on subjects, I've had the fortune of studying under Mas. In class someone will ask a question or bring up a counter point. His strength is that he will explain his point, explain the "why" behind the answer, and usually cite a case or two to prove his point. I'm finding many of the "modern" high speed, low drag operator instructors are good a regurgitating something they have been told but don't have a clue as to the why. I'm seeing some light techniques from these folks that are not based in the real world.

 

[Member 53328]

Search with a handheld light. That being said I have a light (Surefire X300U) on my daily carry as well as in my pocket (Streamlight ProTac 1L). What can I say…. I like to have options.

 

[solv3nt]

What can I say…. I like to have options.

Oh yea!

View attachment 1251311

We all know that you like options. It doubles the dating pool on a Friday night, that's for sure. I ain't judging though.

 

[Member 53328]

We all know that you like options. It doubles the dating pool on a Friday night, that's for sure. I ain't judging though.

A hole is a hole right? Take gender out of the question and your probability of getting laid doubles. I need all the help I can get. Haha.

 

[Joe13]

Well I didn't pipe in cuz I didn't think this one would go 9 rounds so…..


Flame Thrower!!!

It illuminates and you are taking care of any berries on the property if asked.

If someone happens to be hiding in the bushes your about to get rid of and they get singed, you weren't menacing - they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Works on animals too plus I would think a 30' flame would maybe deter me from ever visiting said place again as well as a firearm incident.

Your welcome =P

 

[solv3nt]

Well I didn't pipe in cuz I didn't think this one would go 9 rounds so…..


Flame Thrower!!!

It illuminates and you are taking care of any berries on the property if asked.

If someone happens to be hiding in the bushes your about to get rid of and they get singed, you weren't menacing - they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Works on animals too plus I would think a 30' flame would maybe deter me from ever visiting said place again as well as a firearm incident.

Your welcome =P

When I lived in Hawaii, I came close to wanting a flame thrower after the first demon spawn centipede was in the house.

 

[Joe13]

When I lived in Hawaii, I came close to wanting a flame thrower after the first demon spawn centipede was in the house.

When I lived overseas near the equator we let the lizards hang out around the ceiling of the house to help with bugs but yea, just about everything else would bite and almost all of those would have some type of venom. Scorpions the size of squirrels, it was a trippy place to grow up and then come back to the States.

West WA and OR is so tame comparably and I like it lol.

 

[Yarome]

When I lived in Hawaii, I came close to wanting a flame thrower after the first demon spawn centipede was in the house.

No joke! ...or one too many times a gekko drops from the ceiling and lands on you. ʻOluʻolu ʻole!!

You can only eat "SO many" gekko burgers before you just wanna burn em all!!

 

[Member 53328]

Well I didn't pipe in cuz I didn't think this one would go 9 rounds so…..


Flame Thrower!!!

It illuminates and you are taking care of any berries on the property if asked.

If someone happens to be hiding in the bushes your about to get rid of and they get singed, you weren't menacing - they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Works on animals too plus I would think a 30' flame would maybe deter me from ever visiting said place again as well as a firearm incident.

Your welcome =P

And free BBQ

 

[Xaevian]

Weapon lights tend to attract bugs at night, so there is that.

 

[sobo]

Um, @EHJ posted already... just yesterday...

Glad to see you're still following the thread, Stomp, ol' chap!

 

[Yarome]

Um, posted already... just yesterday...

Glad to see you're still following the thread, Stomp, ol' chap!

Riiiiighhht.... As if you're so different than the rest of us and can remember what YOU had for breakast!?!

 

[sobo]

Riiiiighhht.... As if you're so different than the rest of us and can remember what YOU had for breakast!?!

I haven't even had breakfast yet... Oh, wait! Yes I have! It was pancakes... No, wait! It was bacon and eggs... No, wait! It was... Oh, shiit, what did I have...???