Oregon CHL holder killed by campus police

[slimmer13]

I was not aware of the total alcohol prohibition while legally carrying a firearm. Perhaps you could cite your sources?

There's not. That's absurd. Maybe he was thinking of the prohibition of carrying in bars.

 

[Goosebrown]

But I will agree that when an officer tells you not to do something it's probably best if you stop and listen to the man.

You want to argue with a cop? Do it in court.

 

[Alexx1401]

Best way to deescalate the situation is start shooting..... Great.....

Best way to not get shot?
1.do not take your gun to a bar
2. if you are too stupid to not follow #1, do not get involved in a fight, especially while Cops are trying to intervene.
3. Assuming you are too stupid to follow 1 and 2, and drop the gun in front of the Cops, do not try to then pick it up.
For anyone who can't follow all the first 3, blame the Cop when you get shot.

 

[DuneHopper]

Best way to not get shot?
1.do not take your gun to a bar
2. if you are too stupid to not follow #1, do not get involved in a fight, especially while Cops are trying to intervene.
3. Assuming you are too stupid to follow 1 and 2, and drop the gun in front of the Cops, do not try to then pick it up.
For anyone who can't follow all the first 3, blame the Cop when you get shot.

THIS !!!!

 

[11Charlie]

This sad but he did a bunch of stuff wrong and not just wrong but way wrong.

 

[oneharmonic]

The guy was a Navy vet, father, grandfather, US Postal worker, good samaritan trying to keep his friend from getting into a fight and thrown in jail, and ends up dead because of two cops with itchy trigger fingers.

If our operating principal is shoot first and ask questions later, we're failing. Nothing about his behavior up to that point showed he was doing ANYTHING besides trying to break up a fight. Cops are conditioned to start shooting the second they even see a silhouette in someone's hand, which is why people get killed for holding an iPhone.

The headline should read "Good Guy with a gun gets killed by cops", because cops are ill prepared to even distinguish between a good guy with a gun and a bad guy with a gun.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Could be audio exclusion from being in a stressful situation.

 

[JRuby]

As I understand it these are not police they are campus security officers so they should be subject to any laws and conditions a civilian would be.

 

[mkwerx]

As I understand it these are not police they are campus security officers so they should be subject to any laws and conditions a civilian would be.

They are sworn police. They transitioned from a public safety department to campus police department a few years back. Just like OHSU.

 

[Kristina]

This, 100% this:

The guy was a Navy vet, father, grandfather, US Postal worker, good samaritan trying to keep his friend from getting into a fight and thrown in jail, and ends up dead because of two cops with itchy trigger fingers.

If our operating principal is shoot first and ask questions later, we're failing. Nothing about his behavior up to that point showed he was doing ANYTHING besides trying to break up a fight. Cops are conditioned to start shooting the second they even see a silhouette in someone's hand, which is why people get killed for holding an iPhone.

The headline should read "Good Guy with a gun gets killed by cops", because cops are ill prepared to even distinguish between a good guy with a gun and a bad guy with a gun.

I agree with others in that he made some poor choices, but he isn't dead because of them. He is dead because of the choices the police made. How much time transpired between "drop the gun" and the gunshots? Not much. If given more than a second or two to comply he probably would have, and would probably still be alive.

 

[JRuby]

I cant think of a better scenario to show the importance of quality holster for carrying. A cheap holster could get you killed.

 

[Asp]

I agree with others in that he made some poor choices, but he isn't dead because of them. He is dead because of the choices the police made. How much time transpired between "drop the gun" and the gunshots? Not much. If given more than a second or two to comply he probably would have, and would probably still be alive.

The ONLY poor choice in my mind, was he died doing the right thing. He tried to stop a fight while carrying. And, yes, the shooter, et al, are being geared to shoot first and ask questions later. I mean how much ammunition do officers carry?

All I learned from this was if you carry, make sure you are knocked down and have visible wounds before you fight back, unless you are an old man or lady. And never help anyone in a scuffle unless you know/believe 100% that person is in fear for their life and it complies with ORS use of deadly force codes.

 

[oneharmonic]

How long does it take to pull a trigger? If the guns in hand and out of the holster it's ready to be fired. There's no excuse for picking it up after it's off your person unless you plan to fire it.

Guilty until proven innocent and deserving of a death sentence and summary execution because he had some beers and made a bad decision that wasn't corrected 500 milliseconds fast enough?

You need to re-examine what it means to be police.

 

[Kristina]

How long does it take to pull a trigger? If the guns in hand and out of the holster it's ready to be fired. There's no excuse for picking it up after it's off your person unless you plan to fire it in the given situation.

I have never been in that situation so I can only assume... but given that he was in a combative situation I'd guess that he picked it up so that someone else wouldn't. I think kicking it away, probably toward the campus security, would have been the better choice. Like I said: he made poor choices, but he shouldn't be dead because of them. It's the situational awareness and the actions of the campus security that got him killed.

 

[Asp]

And you're being overly dramatic with the facts. He made a lot of bad decisions. Worst of all picking up a gun on the ground with cops present.

I'm confused. If the cops were there, why didn't they deploy less lethal or get between the people scuffling? Prior to falling down, was the victim visibly trying to stop the fight? Can you make a definitive list of "a lot"? It's possible by the time he reached for the firearm, the command to stop came too late.

As i said, if he just stood back doing nothing, he'd be alive. So by doing something the cops should have done, he died.

 

[oneharmonic]

And you're being overly dramatic with the facts. He made a lot of bad decisions. Worst of all picking up a gun on the ground with cops present. If you can't see the logical process that took place following that choice, nothing I can do for you. But turning this into some propaganda speech isn't helping anything.

I think you're being non-chalant about an innocent man being killed for having a natural reaction to dropping his concealed carry handgun: he went to pick it up.

According to you, that means your life ends and your kids grow up without a father.

What does it say about the mental capacity of a police officer if we train them to have a Pavlovian response to seeing a dark object in someone's hand?

 

[Asp]

Go read the news articles and watch the multiple videos of the incident and make your own judgment.

I did, and that's why I'm legitimately confused by some of the things that you've said qualify as mistakes. For example, Oregon has no prohibitions against drinking, and then driving. You can drink, carrying, and drive home. Intoxication is the issue. In fact, unless there was a drug/alcohol test of those involved, we have insufficient evidence that the fight was due to intoxication.

In general I disagree he made a lot of mistakes. For myself, were in those shoes, I would rather appear cowardly, than involve myself in something that has escalated in physical threatening behavior or greater. As I said earlier, and I believe, the only mistake on his end was involving himself physically in preventing a scuffle, even if stopping violence was the correct answer. After that mistake, no turning back.

 

[JRuby]

Now it goes to court and "IF" the police are found guilty they get a letter of reprimand the city pays off the family with taxpayer money and the officers live happily ever after while the family tries to move on.

 

[Asp]

Sorry you're confused, but that's on you. I feel I made my points pretty clear.

Well, I agree your opinion as stated on face value is clear with how you feel. And I hope mine is clear, but because of the subjectivity I'm unconvinced at this time about the overall clarity. By that I mean, unconvinced that your opinion -if is to be a, or the final acknowledged stance -supercedes mine or others' opinions and questions, with relation to the law, facts, and interpretation as we learn more about this case.

 

[oneharmonic]

People die everyday from all sorts of things one could call tragic. Some are more avoidable than others, but in the end people make bad choices and end up dead. It's just a reality of exisiting in this world. A cop has as much a right to go home to their family. In this situation the cops felt they had to end a threat themselves and the numerous people around them who didn't pick up the gun. You can spin it anyway you please, but only one person had a live firearm in their hand at a point during a chaotic drunken brawl. His mistake to own to the very the end. You may want it to be one be one way, but how it is doesn't change. And how it is is overall a clear line of consequences to choices. People bubblegum up, and he bubblegumed up bad.

Innocent people all have the right to go home to their families. Making a bad choice shouldn't be a death sentence.