Biden: "Fighting tyranny with guns is hooey! We have nukes."

[Ura-Ki]

You know.... what about going the route of the AC-47, AC-119, AC-130?
Instead of firing forward... have the stuff aimed sideways and for a pylon turn/circular orbit method? Plenty of twin engined aircraft with long ranges out there.. lots with high wings too.. say, the De Haviland Twin Otter, Fokker F-27 series, and the like?

Edit. Thats not to say that low wing versions wouldn't work (look at the AC-47 lol) but its easier to outfit high wings and they dont need to worry as much about hitting their own wings lol

I have some Experience in these things, (riding around in MH-60's) I would have a rear Gunner with a 7.62X51 of some sort ridin the back seat in my bird!!
Bonus is being able to deal with helicopters that might come lookin for trouble! Be surprised at how agile a Super Cub can be, get above the rotor disk and stay in close and she's all mine!

 

[CamoDeafie]

A larger plane could carry more fuel, ammo, people.
7.62x51 M34 type, 20mm M61s to augment the .50bmgs... and maybe a 37mm or a 40mm Bofors?
Edit, if we are staying smaller than a C-130 size but need more than a Super Cub lol.
Edit 2. ... a twin turboprop high wing aircraft might be the ticket. Thats the Turbo Twin Otter and one of the Fokkers? What others? A turboprop conversion of the venerable B-25 might be a hoot to see lol

 

[Diamondback]

A larger plane could carry more fuel, ammo, people.
7.62x51 M34 type, 20mm M61s to augment the .50bmgs... and maybe a 37mm or a 40mm Bofors?
Edit, if we are staying smaller than a C-130 size but need more than a Super Cub lol.
Edit 2. ... a twin turboprop high wing aircraft might be the ticket. Thats the Turbo Twin Otter and one of the Fokkers? What others? A turboprop conversion of the venerable B-25 might be a hoot to see lol

A-26 Invader. Don't need no damn side-mounts with over a dozen .50s pointed straight ahead... Could probably trade some of the wing-mounted "package" twin-.50s for podded M134's... or could probably keep the package-mounts and rig a couple Vulcans in the nose.

 

[CamoDeafie]

A-26 Invader. Don't need no damn side-mounts with over a dozen .50s pointed straight ahead...

Lol. A-10 with the 30mm straight ahead. But.... the AC47,AC119, AC130 all work because.. they can orbit a single point and pour tons of ammo at specific points like trucks, OPs, buildings, and so on. While attack planes like the A10, A-1D, A-7,A-26, A-20, all seem to be awesome when you need quick execution of designated targets..

I'd say the AC-130 along with the Apaches and MH-60L DAPs are all a bigger threat to insurgents than the A-26 or A-7s. A-10s..... those have their value.

 

[Ura-Ki]

A-26 Invader. Don't need no damn side-mounts with over a dozen .50s pointed straight ahead... Could probably trade some of the wing-mounted "package" twin-.50s for podded M134's... or could probably keep the package-mounts and rig a couple Vulcans in the nose.

If we're doing a rebuild of a classic war bird, the only choice for a gunship is the bird the A-10 replaced, the old A-1 Sky Raider, it's already got pretty much everything you could ever want, add a couple of M-82 light weight 40mm guns under the wings and you got a hard hitting ground pounder that can out turn pretty much anything!

 

[CamoDeafie]

The P-61 Black Widow already has 4x 20mm cannons plus 4x .50s, a huge radar, long range, 3 crewmembers... swap radar for the 8-gun kit off a B-25H gunship or replace the 4 20mm single barrel cannons with 2 25mm GAU-12Bs which were developed from the GAU-8A 30mm.

Actually, any of the classics could use the GAU-12Bs

I want to say Burt Rutan had a fairly odd (well odd for anyone else except him LOL) CAS light plane that used a 25mm cannon on it? Was in Iron Eagle 4 as a mythical German prototype but it was a real aircraft. .

Yeah it was the Scaled Composites ARES prototype.

 

[Diamondback]

The P-61 Black Widow already has 4x 20mm cannons plus 4x .50s, a huge radar, long range, 3 crewmembers... swap radar for the 8-gun kit off a B-25H gunship orAND replace the 4 20mm single barrel cannons with 2 25mm GAU-12Bs which were developed from the GAU-8A 30mm.

FIFY! While we're at it, trade a couple of the drop tanks for Minigun pods and add a couple of the Invader's pack-mounts.

Upgrade the engines to R-4360 Corncobs while we're at it... except for the poor dumb SOB A1C's who'll have to lug the buckets of sparkplugs after every flight. Dumping the two spotters adds about 500lb more fuel and ammo allowance... more than that if you strip out their seats, the radarscopes and the optical gunsights for Tail End Charlie.

 

[CamoDeafie]

FIFY! While we're at it, trade a couple of the drop tanks for Minigun pods and add a couple of the Invader's pack-mounts.

Upgrade the engines to R-4360 Corncobs while we're at it... except for the poor dumb SOB A1C's who'll have to lug the buckets of sparkplugs after every flight. Dumping the two spotters adds about 500lb more fuel and ammo allowance... more than that if you strip out their seats, the radarscopes and the optical gunsights for Tail End Charlie.

Nah. Swap for the turboprops from the C-130. More powahhhh and more reliable

 

[Diamondback]

Make it the J-model. Cut down those new six-blade scimitar props to clear the fuselage... maybe add a DIRCM on to counter MANPADS.

While at it, switch to the bubble canopy of the XP-61E and F-15 Reporter (remember, in WW2 F was Fotorecon, not Fighter).

Northrop F-15 Reporter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CamoDeafie]

The Grumman F7F Tigercat could be a better candidate, having been one of the fastest twin engined attack aircraft and had a dang good payload... the Day Fighter version had the same armament as the P-61, but no radar. The night fighter had radar but only 20mm cannon plus 8 127mm unguided rockets or 2x 1,000lb bombs. Cannon were in wing roots. Good place for 2x 25mm GAU-12s with their ammo drums occupying the mid fuselage where 2nd crew used to be (RIO). Keep 4 50cals in nose, or replace with 2x Vulcan 20mms

 

[Ura-Ki]

The Grumman F7F Tigercat could be a better candidate, having been one of the fastest twin engined attack aircraft and had a dang good payload... the Day Fighter version had the same armament as the P-61, but no radar. The night fighter had radar but only 20mm cannon plus 8 127mm unguided rockets or 2x 1,000lb bombs. Cannon were in wing roots. Good place for 2x 25mm GAU-12s with their ammo drums occupying the mid fuselage where 2nd crew used to be (RIO). Keep 4 50cals in nose, or replace with 2x Vulcan 20mms

P-38 Chain Lightning, a P-38 that had it's Allison's swapped for,........Allison Turbo Props, and a 4 gun nose, all 20 or 30 mm! Was much faster down low, could out climb any thing with propellers, and smoke most pure jets of the era!

Wanna sweet CASA, the Hilios Super Stallion would be my top pick! Take the very best STOL tech and put it all together behind a serious Garrette ( Honeywell) Air Research turbo prop and you got your self one SERIOUS toy to do sneaky stuff with!

 

[CamoDeafie]

P-38 Chain Lightning, a P-38 that had it's Allison's swapped for,........Allison Turbo Props, and a 4 gun nose, all 20 or 30 mm! Was much faster down low, could out climb any thing with propellers, and smoke most pure jets of the era!

Wanna sweet CASA, the Hilios Super Stallion would be my top pick! Take the very best STOL tech and put it all together behind a serious Garrette ( Honeywell) Air Research turbo prop and you got your self one SERIOUS toy to do sneaky stuff with!

Talking about the AU-24 Stallion? Or the CH-53D Super Stallion? lol

 

[Ura-Ki]

Talking about the AU-24 Stallion? Or the CH-53D Super Stallion?

AU-24++

 

[CamoDeafie]

Well the STOL aspect was why I thought of the Twin Otter and Fokker F-27 Friendship twin turboprop high wing aircraft... these could carry a lot of weight for their size and have decent ranges/loiter time. Plus there's a lot out there

 

[Ura-Ki]

Well the STOL aspect was why I thought of the Twin Otter and Fokker F-27 Friendship twin turboprop high wing aircraft... these could carry a lot of weight for their size and have decent ranges/loiter time. Plus there's a lot out there

I had a hair brained bug idea when I was getting ready to retire, buy up one of the original early Chrysler sourced Aliena G-222 ( C-127J) and re build it to lighten it and increase it's STOL performance big time! Could ( Still Can) buy them super cheap! I was wanting do some contract work over seas, hauling food and medical and relief aid! Couldn't get any one to back me, and I couldn't quite swing it with the savings I had at the time! Those birds would be Very impressive with out all the weight they are way over built with! We actually did a full work up with a couple of engineering guys who figured we could safely remove around 2500 pounds of superfluous crap and still have a super strong airframe! Add a couple of 3500 HP Allison's or Honeywells and it would have been the schiznit for a heavy bush plane!

 

[Mono1]

Wait. We're talking about airplanes here? Totally not relevant.

Occupation is what matters. Boots on the Ground. Airplanes weren't worth Sh*t in the Middle East.

Mike Vanderboegh wrote about this years ago;

The jist, is that there are 1.5 Million members of the armed forces in TOTAL (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines combined). But there are 35 Million citizens who buy hunting licenses every year who possess equipment of military utility.

Beyond that, history for centuries has shown that the military will not shoot their own countrymen. It's why the British had to employ Germans during the Revolutionary War.

Over and Out.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Wait. We're talking about airplanes here? Totally not relevant.

Occupation is what matters. Boots on the Ground. Airplanes weren't worth Sh*t in the Middle East.

Mike Vanderboegh wrote about this years ago;

The jist, is that there are 1.5 Million members of the armed forces in TOTAL (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines combined). But there are 35 Million citizens who buy hunting licenses every year who possess equipment of military utility.

Beyond that, history for centuries has shown that the military will not shoot their own countrymen. It's why the British had to employ Germans during the Revolutionary War.

Over and Out.

Yes. 1 percent of the US population far exceeds the number of active duty personnel. Aircraft can be a force multiplier , just like ground vehicles. One thing to consider... just how many police officers and Fed Agents of all agencies could the govt call up to use against people? Why were there orders for billions of rounds to Fed Agencies such as Social Security, IRS, and the sort?
.
On the othet hand... the vast majority of civilian "armored cars/trucks"(as used by police teams and cash in transit companies) are armored only up to rifle ammo, not .50cal or 20mm.

If even 1% of 330 million are going to be fighting one way or other..there's the logistics to consider. Fast planes werent worth much after the initial blitzkreig attacks, but... helos, A-10s.... far more useful than people admitted especially in the mountains of Afghanistan.
Edit oh lets not forget drones.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Also... the USAF does not have near enough number of aircraft to have total air superiority coverage of the entire 50 States plus Territories... (looking at Alaska and Hawaii lol) although Hawaii is gonna be lost due to being small islands with nothing connecting to the mainland that can't be blockaded.. but Alaska is huge, and we have Canada.... and then while in theory the USAF can cover the continent with surveillance assets and the like... they can't realistically expect 13,000 military aircraft to ensure air superiority 24-7

 

[The Heretic]

Wait. We're talking about airplanes here? Totally not relevant.

Occupation is what matters. Boots on the Ground. Airplanes weren't worth Sh*t in the Middle East.

Mike Vanderboegh wrote about this years ago;

Uh huh.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Occupation is what matters. Boots on the Ground. Airplanes weren't worth Sh*t in the Middle East.

I can say this....I called in many a air strike on a SAM site and other targets during my time in Iraq...that worked pretty good most of the time...so in my experience , airplanes were indeed worth a Sh*t , there at least...

Now with that said...
All that really means is what my experiences has taught me....it may well be different for others...and in different times and places.
Andy