Best home defense gun for old people?

[strangedays]

please list a couple and I'll test them
I have buildings I can shoot in
we're talking .223 or 5.56 out of a 16" bbl AR

So I have tested this personally on a few different situations.
Two walls with insulation and single layer of drywall like a normal wall in a house.
No round from pistol, bird shot or rifle was stopped in the first wall. The only round stopped in the second wall was .223.
The bird shot with a .20 gauge went through, 40 cal hollow points went through, 9mm with hollow points went through. 12 gauge bird shot went through, tried slugs and self defense shotgun rounds and it still went through.

Did the same test on an old Lincoln town car. Shooting through the driver side door into the passenger door to see if they would be stopped. The .40 went through both doors, 9mm went through both doors, slugs went through both doors, .223 TAP stopped in the second door or broke into pieces and pieces were found in the vehicle. I will have to pull up all the ammo types but .223 hollow point Black Hills also performed well for not over penetrating. Buck shot went through first door and some went through the second door. Bird shot went through first door and stopped in the second door. So everyone who thinks a rifle is going to be worse for self defense in a home situation hasn't looked into it. Let me know how your test goes.

 

[rjmt]

Why “High Powered” 5.56 NATO/.223 AR-15 Ammo is Safer For Home Defense (FBI overpenetration testing)

self defense, cqb, cqc, home defense, ar15, combative, police, guns, gun fight, close combat, fighting, Gripknife, defensive weapons, armed

gripknife.com

I find this data highly suspect
I'll build a wall specifically for this with 1/2" sheetrock front and rear over 2x6 frame with R15 insulation with a backstop at 100 yrds
will use 9mm, .38+P, .45 12 ga #4 buck and 5.56 NATO

will let you know in a couple of weeks

 

[strangedays]

granted - but you also have to think about the people who live around you
select your self defense weapon based on your environment
I've been down to my daughters home in Portland I would not use an AR 15 for self defense in her neighborhood
I would not even use one for self defense on my property, I have limited corridors of fire for an AR 15, the likelihood an intruder would be in one of those is slim
as many know, I wouldn't even fire into my orchard due to my old Wolf River Apple tree
.38+P is not going to damage that old tree much, but a 5.56 will
and if I put a hole in my wifes Subaru, there would be no end to that Hell

Think you need to educate yourself on what you just claimed. It's false as can be.

 

[rjmt]

So I have tested this personally on a few different situations.
Two walls with insulation and single layer of drywall like a normal wall in a house.
No round from pistol, bird shot or rifle was stopped in the first wall. The only round stopped in the second wall was .223.
The bird shot with a .20 gauge went through, 40 cal hollow points went through, 9mm with hollow points went through. 12 gauge bird shot went through, tried slugs and self defense shotgun rounds and it still went through.

Did the same test on an old Lincoln town car. Shooting through the driver side door into the passenger door to see if they would be stopped. The .40 went through both doors, 9mm went through both doors, slugs went through both doors, .223 TAP stopped in the second door or broke into pieces and pieces were found in the vehicle. I will have to pull up all the ammo types but .223 hollow point Black Hills also performed well for not over penetrating. Buck shot went through first door and some went through the second door. Bird shot went through first door and stopped in the second door. So everyone who thinks a rifle is going to be worse for self defense in a home situation hasn't looked into it. Let me know how your test goes.

OK, Ill accept your data

 

[rjmt]

OK, Ill accept your data

but I'll tell my wife if she gets a hole in her Subaru to talk to you

 

[Andy54Hawken]

granted - but you also have to think about the people who live around you
select your self defense weapon based on your environment
I've been down to my daughters home in Portland I would not use an AR 15 for self defense in her neighborhood
I would not even use one for self defense on my property, I have limited corridors of fire for an AR 15, the likelihood an intruder would be in one of those is slim
as many know, I wouldn't even fire into my orchard due to my old Wolf River Apple tree
.38+P is not going to damage that old tree much, but a 5.56 will
and if I put a hole in my wifes Subaru, there would be no end to that Hell

Nope....Not what I meant with what I was saying....at all.

Just 'casue you are armed with someone else's less than ideal firearm , is no reason to curl up and wait to die.
Use what you have , the best way you can...shoot well...and shoot without regrets.
Andy

 

[strangedays]

Proof doesn't lie.

https://press.hornady.com/assets/pcthumbs/tmp/1410995795-2018-TAP-Application-Guide.pdf

 

[strangedays]

but I'll tell my wife if she gets a hole in her Subaru to talk to you

Look at the data I shared. It's a comprehensive list of many calibers. Under your logic that .223 should be higher penetration.

 

[rjmt]

Nope....Not what I meant with what I was saying....at all.

Just 'casue you are armed with someone else's less than ideal firearm , is no reason to curl up and wait to die.
Use what you have , the best way you can...shoot well...and shoot without regrets.
Andy

Andy, many may not have the variety of firearms you and I do, they may be able to purchase only one
I just suggest they select the appropriate firearm for the capabilities and environment they live in
I have not considered a AR for defense in the house or even on the property
for a fact, outside, if I miss, it's going to hit the neighbors property
I'll have to test 5.56 self defense ammo before I trust it inside
but if I'm going outside, a Mossberg 590 with #4 buck, I know it won't reach my neighbors house

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Andy, many may not have the variety of firearms you and I do, they may be able to purchase only one
I just suggest they select the appropriate firearm for the capabilities and environment they live in
I have not considered a AR for defense in the house or even on the property
for a fact, outside, if I miss, it's going to hit the neighbors property
I'll have to test 5.56 self defense ammo before I trust it inside
but if I'm going outside, a Mossberg 590 with #4 buck, I know it won't reach my neighbors house

Again...not my point.

My Point :
Don't get hung up ....'casue you have a someone else's idea of a less than desirable firearm.
Use what you have...and use it well.

If you don't understand this or agree with it...fine..whatever you do...please stop quoting me.

Andy

 

[rjmt]

Think you need to educate yourself on what you just claimed. It's false as can be.

OK, I found a box of Winchester PDX 60 gn self defense ammo in my collection
will test and let you know
if you're correct, I have no problem acknowledging that
most of my 5.56 is 69 grn Sierra Match King and I know what that does
it Does penetrate 2 layers of sheetrock

 

[strangedays]

OK, I found a box of Winchester PDX 60 gn self defense ammo in my collection
will test and let you know
if you're correct, I have no problem acknowledging that
most of my 5.56 is 69 grn Sierra Match King and I know what that does
it Does penetrate 2 layers of sheetrock

Yeah Sierra Match King is not a home defense round. We also tested green tipped steel core and it performed much like a 9mm on penetration.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Best thumbnail ever!..

 

[rjmt]

Yeah Sierra Match King is not a home defense round. We also tested green tipped steel core and it performed much like a 9mm on penetration.

I acquired 500 rnds of Israeli Razor Core 77 grn
now, that's some nasty stuff!!
but I only shoot that against a heavy backstop

 

[rjmt]

Think you need to educate yourself on what you just claimed. It's false as can be.

I spend all night reading up on your data
I also researched the Winchester PDX self defense rounds I found in my collection
I now accept, with the proper ammo, that an AR in a suitable configuration, is a viable choice for indoor home protection, specifically for the elderly or slight of frame
all but one of mine are pampered HBAR target rifles, weighing about 12# each
but with 99% of the ammo I stock and shoot, the ammo would not be a good choice for home defense
and this is what I based my posting on, I never looked into .223 self defense ammo, since I never shoot it
I found the Winchester PDX was specifically designed for indoor self defense and will not penetrate even intermediate barriers
I'm not to old to accept new information

 

[titsonritz]

granted - but you also have to think about the people who live around you
select your self defense weapon based on your environment
I've been down to my daughters home in Portland I would not use an AR 15 for self defense in her neighborhood
I would not even use one for self defense on my property, I have limited corridors of fire for an AR 15, the likelihood an intruder would be in one of those is slim
as many know, I wouldn't even fire into my orchard due to my old Wolf River Apple tree
.38+P is not going to damage that old tree much, but a 5.56 will
and if I put a hole in my wifes Subaru, there would be no end to that Hell

One of the primary reasons LE has made the jump from PCC (ie: the MP5) to 5.56 ARs is due to the reduced chance of over penetration.

 

[titsonritz]

I find this data highly suspect
I'll build a wall specifically for this with 1/2" sheetrock front and rear over 2x6 frame with R15 insulation with a backstop at 100 yrds
will use 9mm, .38+P, .45 12 ga #4 buck and 5.56 NATO

will let you know in a couple of weeks

That is fine to simulate an interior wall, but does not represent an exterior wall.

 

[dangerranger60]

they arent frail or anything. they are in both good shape and work out regularly. their accuracy with a handgun is just my primary concern, and lack of desire to put in the range time.

The trick is in finding something they enjoy about shooting. If they enjoy competition, find them a match. If they like other old people, find them a group they fit into. God Luck DR

 

[Wombat of Doom]

As someone whose body is problematic before the age of 50, I can say this is a prudent reminder:
View attachment 1177687

I get this as someone who has some major health issues. While I can shoot most any gun now recoil wise, in 5 years that may no longer be the case. However, I also believe the humble 32acp is a lot better than a pointy stick. Beretta 81s can hold a few rounds are cheap and heavy enough to be very easy for follow up shots. But what I would look for is, low recoil, high enough muzzle energy, easy racking and points well. Personally I like long guns for this as they are easier to learn to shoot decently. Hence my thoughts on the matter, but IMO, a person new to guns may start with 1 gun, but they may end up upgrading to more power if they can handle recoil, but follow up shots are essential.

I would absolutely not recommend my own choices for home defense to a new shooter.

 

[rjmt]

yup, this is my home defense AR

load it with Winchester PDX self defense ammo and lay the bipod across your dinner table

when the intruder enters the Close Quarters Combat circle of the EOTech 512, pull the trigger

no weight or tension on old bodies with a bipod on the dinner table

with a Geissele 2 stage SSA-E trigger, one can empty a 10 rnd mag in 1.5 sec, even with arthritic fingers and carpultunnel syndrome

and Winchester PDX will not overpenetrate into your neighbors Condo or Manufactured Home