Best home defense gun for old people?

[bbbass]

@Catherine1

Hi Cate!!

I had a Glock 19 Gen 3 that I shot very well and naturally. It pointed great for me. So does my Ruger SR9c that I bought after giving the G19 to my stepdaughter because she went to work for the parole board. My G34 Practical/Tactical Gen 4 not so much oddly enough, even with a $300 trigger.

I shoot a lot of simulated SD and IDPA and have taught my wife Lou and a few friends. We don't stand at 25yds and slow fire for accuracy. We shoot at 3', 7', 15', 21' etc. I quickly found that at very short distances a snap shot double tap works very well and accurately. As the distance goes out over 7', I begin to use the top of the barrel in my peripheral vision as the guide (one of the very fastest and best trainers I ever worked with had a really old 1911 with no sights that he found in the bottom of a fireplace.. no sights at all, but the guy was GOOD, and fast). But at some distance accuracy will begin to suffer if I don't use the sights. I don't think about it, it's just instinctive.

As an aside, IMO a laser is the worst thing for a newbie (my oldest brother) because they use it as a crutch and often can't find the dot on the target, thereby making it slow. They also don't learn to use the sights very well as a result of over-reliance on the laser.

A WML (Weapon Mounted Light) is IMO a great idea for an HD firearm. One lights up the perp for safety/ID reasons, place the center of the beam on the torso, and start pulling the trigger... none of this single shot crappola. Not spray and pray either, but make sure the bullets stitch em up good so as to STOP THE THREAT!! What was it that Cerberus recommended... start at the pubes and work your way all the way up.

Then nuke em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. (Quote from "Aliens")

 

[Olderguy]

I'm an old guy and complement you on your concern for your folks.Handgun, shotgun. carbine can all be good. If the threat would be inside the house, a handgun with proper training and practice is my first choice due to it's size. It can be kept in a drawer by the bed or an entry door, it can be kept close to the body going around corners in the middle of the night, where a shotgun or rifle can protrude if not trained in clearing a house. If handgun recoil is the problem, this can be pretty well overcome by caliber selection and handgun weight. Whatever firearm you chose make sure the have a light to identify the threat-this cannot be over emphasized! As previously noted a shotgun does not spread out that much at inside a normal home distances but sure can be a stopper, even with birdshot, which I recommend to prevent or lessen the danger of wall penetration. Not sure about the comment about beating them up with shotgun recoil. Let them shoot a shotgun and carbine and see what they think. If they're in good shape they may prefer a shotgun or carbine for the increased accuracy. If the threat may be outside the home advise them to keep a cell phone handy and call 911.

 

[uban77]

Any SBR, AR, bull pups, in handgun calibers. Accuracy will go up and less chance of over penetration. Unlike rifle calibers.

 

[crstrode]

my parents got a glock for home defense (their first gun). however they don't put in a lot of range time, and when I was with them they were pretty inaccurate with it. I recommended that they should get a shotgun because it has a spread and will be easier to hit the target. Am i right with this thinking? Thoughts?

I'm guessing "old people" from your perspective is over 40.

I've got stuff in my refrigerator older than that.

 

[Howard1955]

 

[pietro beretta]

Maybe I way out of right field here, but how about a PCC?

Something like a Scorpion, Charger, or you can go fancier like a B&T GHM9, or even a APC to really keep recoil to a minimum.

Its small but can still be shouldered, you can mount a rapid sight that works for older eyes and/or glasses, mount a light for night time scenarios, if you want to go big one can even put a silencer on it so if it is used inside the home you can still hear if you ever need to use it.

A handgun is violent. Its controllable but violent. I have met some spry elderly people, and some not so spry. I think a PCC would be a good option but that is me.

 

[DunRanull]

There are times I regret not having a flock of attack geese any more. There's nothing quite so satisfying in the SD department as watching three repeat-offender trespassers being escorted off the premises by your flock of nine huge Embdem geese. By "escorted" I mean trespassers running desperately for the fence, the geese running after them honking loudly, wings flapping, necks outstretched, all trying to nip trespasser butts.

That's a real visual... Been around enuff "attack geese" to rofl... Unlike dogs, geese cannot be bought off with food. Beside, the Holy Geese saved Rome from the Celts back in the day...

 

[DunRanull]

Any SBR, AR, bull pups, in handgun calibers. Accuracy will go up and less chance of over penetration. Unlike rifle calibers.

Too bad there arent any M1 carbines being made today- especially in pistol calibers.

 

[Catfishmoon]

my parents got a glock for home defense (their first gun). however they don't put in a lot of range time, and when I was with them they were pretty inaccurate with it. I recommended that they should get a shotgun because it has a spread and will be easier to hit the target. Am i right with this thinking? Thoughts?

Seems like there are a lot of variables...

Are they willing to take the time to regularly practice with a rifle or handgun to the point of being comfortable using a firearm and demonstrating basic proficiency? If yes, then it is just a matter of choosing the right firearm. If no, perhaps forget the idea of a firearm in the house and choose pepper spray or something similar.

I think that small caliber guns are under-rated as defensive weapons. Nothing wrong with a .22 lr handgun or semiauto rifle for a person who is uncomfortable shooting a larger caliber... Defending a crime of opportunity, like burglary does not require "putting down" the intruder with one or two shots... It does not seem likely your parents would be involved in a "crime of passion" where the perp so hates the other individual they are willing to continue attacking even after being shot.

A .22 semiauto rifle is naturally easy to aim because of barrel length and some models hold many rounds...

I am comfortable suggesting a double barrel shotgun as a home defense weapon to a person who does not shoot often, use a lighter load and they need to have shot it a few times to understand the recoil... If I was a bad-guy, nothing would probably scare me more than the sight of the other person having a shotgun.

 

[DizzyJ]

10 pages….
Damn.

Are they local here in Oregon? If so, what county?

 

[corpsman]

My old dad, died at 98, was a skilled marksman in his day (WW2). By age 90 his problem was working the slide on about any semi-auto gat. Showed him my EDC, and when he worked the slide... well, he had one the next day. Rock Island Arms .22TCM, which fires a 5.56x28 with a 40 gr. semi-jacketed hollow point. Muzzle velocity around 2000 fps. 1911A2 frame, 17 round magazine. Comes as a kit with a 9x19 mm barrel and spring. Uses same magazine for both calibers. Bellows like a .357Mag and spits a foot or two of flame, yet has very little perceived recoil, and takes very little effort to cock.The bullet flattens into a round .30 caliber disk and creates a nasty exit wound. While he could still see he was able to put 17 rds of rapid fire into 6 inches at 30 feet. Certainly adequate to diminish the aspirations of your typical thug.

 

[rjmt]

I am comfortable suggesting a double barrel shotgun as a home defense weapon to a person who does not shoot often, use a lighter load and they need to have shot it a few times to understand the recoil... If I was a bad-guy, nothing would probably scare me more than the sight of the other person having a shotgun.

there was a time that may have been true, but not today
the street people in Portland will run right down the barrel of a shotgun, they don't care past todays high
a meth head or fentanyl user, even a mentally ill homeless will not even recognize you have a shotgun
out here in the country, we have had two incidents where intruders tried to take a firearm, including a shotgun, away from the home owner
I'm not going to trust visual or audio ( a shot in the ground) intimidation
I've read modern hollow point 9mm ammo is sufficient for Self Defense
if I'm inside the home, a Buffalo Bore .38+P semi wadcutter will work
if I leave the front door, a shotgun loaded with #4 buck, but not depending on visual intimidation of the firearm

and old person to me doesn't mean over 40
if your not on Social Security, you ain't old

 

[Member 52301]

@Catherine1

Hi Cate!!

I had a Glock 19 Gen 3 that I shot very well and naturally. It pointed great for me. So does my Ruger SR9c that I bought after giving the G19 to my stepdaughter because she went to work for the parole board. My G34 Practical/Tactical Gen 4 not so much oddly enough, even with a $300 trigger.

I shoot a lot of simulated SD and IDPA and have taught my wife Lou and a few friends. We don't stand at 25yds and slow fire for accuracy. We shoot at 3', 7', 15', 21' etc. I quickly found that at very short distances a snap shot double tap works very well and accurately. As the distance goes out over 7', I begin to use the top of the barrel in my peripheral vision as the guide (one of the very fastest and best trainers I ever worked with had a really old 1911 with no sights that he found in the bottom of a fireplace.. no sights at all, but the guy was GOOD, and fast). But at some distance accuracy will begin to suffer if I don't use the sights. I don't think about it, it's just instinctive.

As an aside, IMO a laser is the worst thing for a newbie (my oldest brother) because they use it as a crutch and often can't find the dot on the target, thereby making it slow. They also don't learn to use the sights very well as a result of over-reliance on the laser.

A WML (Weapon Mounted Light) is IMO a great idea for an HD firearm. One lights up the perp for safety/ID reasons, place the center of the beam on the torso, and start pulling the trigger... none of this single shot crappola. Not spray and pray either, but make sure the bullets stitch em up good so as to STOP THE THREAT!! What was it that Cerberus recommended... start at the pubes and work your way all the way up.

Then nuke em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. (Quote from "Aliens")

Hello,

All of his and her Glock 19 pistols were Generation 3 models.

Back east for me and out west.

They are great pistols in my opinion!

My MT husband did a LOT of your type of shooting and competition. I have mentioned this in the past.

Years on end until his crazy high stress 24/7 job schedule changed. Plus he did start to have issues with his hands/arm and neck but they were from one accident and his type of job.

Down the road, he eliminated many of his handgun calibers (And more handguns in various actions later on.) especially in larger caliber ones and in revolvers from a to z. He still loves the '45' but only has one pistol in that now as I stated and in a Glock.

He did not use ANYTHING but iron sights on his handguns when he competed. Pistols, d/a revolvers and s/a revolvers. Plain Jane handguns in various actions and custom made s/a revolvers for him. He had MANY 1911 pistols over the years too.

He has nothing on his handguns now. SAME AS BEFORE. Iron sights only. He does NOT like stuff on his handguns with any type of conceal or open carry or even if he does NOT carry a specific handgun on his body - past or present.

He does conceal and/or open carry where it is legal out here. Plus he has had his permit for way over 20 years too. When it first became available. Now we have Constitutional Carry but most likely he will still get a permit when it's time for him to renew his. I gather that MT will still ISSUE them from what I understand even with the NEWER signed law.

We DO keep lights ON in this small home at night. Our bedroom has no light on when he sleeps BUT light comes in - drifts in from the other rooms. I am up and down anyway with my own physical issues.

Take care! Happy Easter early!

Blessings to you and yours.

Cate

 

[DunRanull]

there was a time that may have been true, but not today
the street people in Portland will run right down the barrel of a shotgun, they don't care past todays high
a meth head or fentanyl user, even a mentally ill homeless will not even recognize you have a shotgun
out here in the country, we have had two incidents where intruders tried to take a firearm, including a shotgun, away from the home owner
I'm not going to trust visual or audio ( a shot in the ground) intimidation
I've read modern hollow point 9mm ammo is sufficient for Self Defense
if I'm inside the home, a Buffalo Bore .38+P semi wadcutter will work
if I leave the front door, a shotgun loaded with #4 buck, but not depending on visual intimidation of the firearm

and old person to me doesn't mean over 40
if your not on Social Security, you ain't old

Modern 9mm HP is very effective on humans. No doubt at all. Might .357 mag be "better"? Probably, especially in some circumstances- but that comes at the cost of more recoil, flash, and noise. Now if we could get the ammo makers to work the magic on the .45acp that they did the 9mmP!

 

[DunRanull]

Hello,

All of his and her Glock 19 pistols were Generation 3 models.

Back east for me and out west.

They are great pistols in my opinion!

My MT husband did a LOT of your type of shooting and competition. I have mentioned this in the past.

Years on end until his crazy high stress 24/7 job schedule changed. Plus he did start to have issues with his hands/arm and neck but they were from one accident and his type of job.

Down the road, he eliminated many of his handgun calibers (And more handguns in various actions later on.) especially in larger caliber ones and in revolvers from a to z. He still loves the '45' but only has one pistol in that now as I stated and in a Glock.

He did not use ANYTHING but iron sights on his handguns when he competed. Pistols, d/a revolvers and s/a revolvers. He did not use ANYTHING but iron sights on his handguns when he competed. Pistols, d/a revolvers and s/a revolvers. and custom made s/a revolvers for him. He had MANY 1911 pistols over the years too.

He has nothing on his handguns now. SAME AS BEFORE. Iron sights only. He does NOT like stuff on his handguns with any type of conceal or open carry or even if he does NOT carry a specific handgun on his body - past or present.

He does conceal and/or open carry where it is legal out here. Plus he has had his permit for way over 20 years too. When it first became available. Now we have Constitutional Carry but most likely he will still get a permit when it's time for him to renew his. I gather that MT will still ISSUE them from what I understand even with the NEWER signed law.

We DO keep lights ON in this small home at night. Our bedroom has no light on when he sleeps BUT light comes in - drifts in from the other rooms. I am up and down anyway with my own physical issues.

Take care! Happy Easter early!

Blessings to you and yours.

Cate

"He did not use ANYTHING but iron sights on his handguns when he competed. Pistols, d/a revolvers and s/a revolvers"... "He did not use ANYTHING but iron sights on his handguns when he competed. Pistols, d/a revolvers and s/a revolvers"..: "He has nothing on his handguns now. SAME AS BEFORE. Iron sights only. He does NOT like stuff on his handguns"... "He had MANY 1911 pistols over the years too."
----Your man sounds like he shares my own carry likes and dislikes.. So Many Guns, So Little Time (and money!) :::sigh:::

"Christ Is Risen!" "HE is risen indeed!" - Russian Easter Greeting after the all-night Orthodox Easter Vigil

 

[Olderguy]

My old dad, died at 98, was a skilled marksman in his day (WW2). By age 90 his problem was working the slide on about any semi-auto gat. Showed him my EDC, and when he worked the slide... well, he had one the next day. Rock Island Arms .22TCM, which fires a 5.56x28 with a 40 gr. semi-jacketed hollow point. Muzzle velocity around 2000 fps. 1911A2 frame, 17 round magazine. Comes as a kit with a 9x19 mm barrel and spring. Uses same magazine for both calibers. Bellows like a .357Mag and spits a foot or two of flame, yet has very little perceived recoil, and takes very little effort to cock.The bullet flattens into a round .30 caliber disk and creates a nasty exit wound. While he could still see he was able to put 17 rds of rapid fire into 6 inches at 30 feet. Certainly adequate to diminish the aspirations of your typical thug. View attachment 1179295

Holy Moly, Your dad was a stud! Hope I can shoot like that at 90. Marine?

 

[strangedays]

That would be an AR (or similar) not a shotgun.

With a red dot and flashlight.

 

[corpsman]

Holy Moly, Your dad was a stud! Hope I can shoot like that at 90. Marine?

Army Air Force pilot. Spent time in the infantry when there were no more aircraft.
As for being able to "shoot like that", it really was a matter of very light recoil and
fast sight picture recovery. His dad was a Marine rifle instructor in 1917.

 

[rjmt]

That would be an AR (or similar) not a shotgun.

and what happens when an old person down in Corvallis fires an AR inside their home in self defence?
how far will that bullet go?

 

[DeanMk]

my parents got a glock for home defense (their first gun). however they don't put in a lot of range time, and when I was with them they were pretty inaccurate with it. I recommended that they should get a shotgun because it has a spread and will be easier to hit the target. Am i right with this thinking? Thoughts?

Yes you are.
Depending on the frailty of your folks, you could arm them with "heavy" rabbit and squirrel loads (#6 or # 7.5 shot, instead of the ubiquitous #8 shot).
They'd shoot the softest and still offer some level of protection.
Best bet, though, is either a heavy Duck and Pheasant load (BB shot) or a small buckshot load (#4).
The important part here is not to arm them with a gun with too open of a choke.
You might think you're doing them a favour saddling them with a cylinder bore, but according to this chart (scroll down, its towards the bottom), the difference between full choke and cylinder bore is only 10 inches @ 30 feet (9" vs. 19").
If you keep the choke tighter, the pellets will all combine better to act as one large bullet and that will have a greater effect on the assailant.
....but make sure they know, the absolute BEST thing for them to do, in the case of a prowler/assailant, is to dial 911 right away and get the cops over there.
Do that FIRST, then grab the gun.