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I do wonder how many of the wanna-bees are going to back away and stay home after seeing one of their Antifa brethren get charged with first degree murder. I think a lot of them are just stupid kids. The shooter had multiple criminal charges in past and looks to be a crazy meth-head.

I don't know about that...

They had one of their own killed in Tacoma trying to burn the ICE facility. Didn't even slow them down.

One of their leaders was run over and killed outside of the Oregon Democrat Headquarters in Portland. The vehicle was shot up and abandoned at the scene. No one was arrested or charged. Didn't even slow them down.

I cannot imagine anything that will deter them from their current activities, unless the legal system starts to enforce the laws and hands out significant jail time for the riots. Catch and Release is just encouraging them. I don't believe the current political climate in Oregon will drive that decision.
 
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Allow me to state the obvious.

What is happening in these cities, with the crown currently held by Portland, is that in neutering the police a void is being created in the public domain. Thus far that void has been filled and dominated by the anarchists, to the delight of the leftists 'in power' above, such as many leftist mayors and governors around the country.

The focus here is the void. Tucker Carlson has openly stated, 'Rioting works'. The rioting has changed the cultural landscape. Elected representatives have literally taken knees as they've bowed down to the mobs.

The America haters can see they've been given a ton of room to throw their tantrums, but deep down they know they're facing a righteous seething populace unlike any they've ever had to confront to date.

The Silent Law-Abiding Majority, including a barrage of 2A supporters.

The mobs are filled with panic and terror when they see this majority begin to show it's face on THEIR terms, that of ground level violence. Folks like Kyle Rittenhouse are but the tip of the spear. Groups like Patriot Prayer have been sharpening the edge. https://gibsonforfreedom.com/

The anarchists remind me of the Biblical giant Goliath, who for days taunted and challenged the enemy without opposition, humiliating them day after day. A young shepherd named David, who was skilled with a sling and who'd reportedly killed lions while protecting the sheep. stepped forward with a sling and a five smooth stones. Goliath mocked the young lad who wore no cumbersome armor as he approached for battle.

It was an unfair fight. David's weaponry was superior to Goliath's sword but the giant had no clue. In moments Goliath was lying on the ground, beheaded with his own sword by the lad who'd just buried a stone in his forehead.

Here's the account, for those who aren't familiar: 1 Samuel 17:38-58 He gave his own armour to David for him to wear: a bronze helmet, which he put on David's head, and a coat of armour. David strapped Saul's sword over the armour and tried to walk, but he couldn't, be | Good News Bible (GNB) | Download The Bible App Now

This current day mob has briefly experienced the skill of one of the David's of our time, a 17 year old bearing an AR as he was attacked by the void-dominating mob.

The question is really in regards to what's next? Will the elected representatives wise up and realize that soon the David's of the free world will be coming after them, in turn bowing out of concerns of self preservation and sending police (or National Guard) in to quell this anarchist uprising? Is it blood in the streets that they are truly seeking?

Even Governor Kate Brown, in her latest biased one sided statements, is wondering whether she (they) truly control the void. Thus far WE have held back while giving them enough rope to hang themselves.

With all of this in mind, I have no doubt that a peaceful massive group of Davids, or perhaps the 300 of Biblical days, could enter the voids in towns like Portland nationwide and put an end to this in moments, the same as Trump would do in inserting the National Guard. I'm not suggesting that this be a religious response, only using Biblical events for illustrative purposes.

The National Guard may be the obvious solution but one has to wonder why our government seems to be leaving this up to the civilians of the nation to resolve. Is this only about rallying the troops for election day? Seems to be so. Do we dare WAIT for an election? This is about far more than an election.

I know a lot of 2A supporters who are more than seething right now, including current and former LEO and military. The 3% of our day is seeing the need to rise again. The real question is whether 'the 300' will rise and act or continue to sit on the sidelines wondering why no one else is taking action. Love of country and our way of life is the platform so many of us stand upon.

I always ask folks to put themselves 50 years in the future and then look back at this moment in time. Will they ask why no one stepped up and took action while they still could, when it was so obvious that something needed to happen? Perhaps this is fodder for another thread, but when will the sleeping giant finally be awakened?

Our 2A rights, and nation as a whole, are at risk. At what point is peaceful intervention imminent, after which, if not exercised, our only recourse will be tactical advantage and blood in the streets? My feeling is that too many are waiting for the latter. IMHO we have to err on the side of the former. We need to organize and fill the voids with resolve, make our presence known, and let it end with that. Compared to our masses, experience, and skillsets, the opposition is minuscule.

If you have any doubt, ask Kyle Rittenhouse.
 
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Have you guys seen how much $$$$ antifa and these criminal thugs are raking in? :s0117:

/

Looks like on gofundme,
The kenosha bicep is at $44,269
The brain has $23,743
Skater boy has $15,650
Skateboard's "partner" $149,813

Kyle has $0 because of coarse gofundme has banned him for violating its terms of service, which prohibits raising funds for the legal defense of crimes connected with "hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism, or intolerance of any kind."
 
this is true, one of the campaign issues proposed by Portland's new D.A. is elimination of the cash bail and pretrial detention system
It's Racist to the poor class who can't afford bail
according to the Liberals, ALL offenders will show up for their trial dates 3 months from now on their own, flight risk is no longer considered
and Portland residents elected him knowing this - it must be something in the water down there


this is why our arsonist was let out without bail, because they trust our good man Pavel will show up for his trial date in Oct and accept 10 years in prison for Class A felony Arson

I guess their theory is if the offenders skips his trial date and leaves town, then they have still eliminated the problem in Portland - it's will be someone else's problem

I’m wondering how you square with the following:
- The use of cash bail predominantly and negatively affects the poor. (True)
- You stand accused of a crime but are innocent until proven guilty. (True)
- Debtors prisons are unconstitutional. (True)

No one thinks an honor system makes for a good justice system.

But, do you really believe that the State has the authority and power to accuse you of a crime, and then ensure that you are locked up until some future unknown date (since speedy trials are no longer a thing)...?

Should one lose their rights and liberties because they cannot afford to pay for the bail for the crime they stand accused, but assumed innocent, of?

I understand your anger, but don’t understand why you think the State should have such power?
 
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I’m wondering how you square with the following:
- The use of cash bail predominantly and negatively affects the poor. (True)
- You stand accused of a crime but are innocent until proven guilty. (True)
- Debtors prisons are unconstitutional. (True)

No one thinks an honor system makes for a good justice system.

But, do you really believe that the State has the authority and power to accuse you of a crime, and then ensure that you are locked up until some future unknown date (since speedy trials are no longer a thing)...?

Should one lose their rights and liberties because they cannot afford to pay for the bail for the crime they stand accused, but assumed innocent, of?

I understand your anger, but don’t understand why you think the State should have such power?
sorry, I didn't state that property, I don't believe it's racist, that what the article says
my anger is that the ANTIFA arsonist who torched my daughter's condo and forced her to move out of their dream home, was charged with 8 counts of felony arson, yet let go back on the street with no pretrial detention or bail
do YOU believe ol' Pavel ,( that's his actual name) will show up in Oct for his trial so he can serve 10 years in State Prison
 
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...
Should one lose their rights and liberties because they cannot afford to pay for the bail for the crime they stand accused, but assumed innocent, of?
...

I think it depends on the offense and the level of proof existing at the bail hearing. Yes, one is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but sometimes there's no question of that. Example: video of the defendant tossing a lit roadway flare into a police car. That's A) violent and B) certainly more likely than not to be proven at trial: set a bail amount.

In contrast, a person gets picked up for having a pound of pot, went quietly without fighting when caught, that's A) non-violent and B) probably more likely than not proven at trial, still, because of A let the person go without bail.

Another example, a person gets arrested based on the statement of a person claiming he did something violent 10 years ago, that's A) violent and B) a very hard case to prove and the risk of locking up the innocent quite high: let the person go without bail.

Now any person might agree or disagree that the above is rational and a policy debate could be had, but what's going on in Portland is none of those: it's A) violent crime and B) almost definitely will be proved at trial, but the DA and Wheeler let the person go anyway. They let a person who IS violent and known to be violent back into the community repeatedly with zero regard for that community or common sense.

For the people want to make the bail system more fair, how about not leading with the most stupid use cases? Reinoehl for example -- in his last arrest there's a picture of him with the gun on the ground right next to him -- there's no way he's winning that case except through dumb luck. And then there is the case before that, where he got caught illegally concealing a gun and doing 111 mph while high. Aaand he's out. So third time around he murders a guy -- seriously, anyone interested in bail reform would take the Portland DA and punch him hard right in the kisser, cause he's only making enemies for that position.
 
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At the end of the video the police are asking for information and literally across the street is the guy who filmed the shooting who at the end of it is extremely hesitant to go be a witness. A bystander is telling him he needs to let the police know -- Reinoehl is running away in these seconds -- and the person taking the video is telling the bystander "who are you [to tell me what to do]?"

I'm as mad at that bubblegum-hole as Reinoehl -- he's an accomplice at that point.

https://www.bit chute.com/video/bta0kW9zgAfq/ (remove the space between bit and chute)

Start at 19:24
 
sorry, I didn't state that property, I don't believe it's racist, that what the article says
my anger is that the ANTIFA arsonist who torched my daughter's condo and forced her to move out of their dream home, was charged with 8 counts of felony arson, yet let go back on the street with no pretrial detention or bail
do YOU believe ol' Pavel ,( that's his actual name) will show up in Oct for his trial so he can serve 10 years in State Prison

Ah, I recall your post about your daughter now. I'm sorry that happened to her - does she have any sort of repair timeline or when they'll be allowed back in?

I'm confused about the process that you've laid out regarding Pavel. How does he have a trial date if there was no arraignment or pretrial? You say trial and then say "show up for serving his 10 years" - is it a trial or sentencing?

But, assuming that his October date is for a trial, I cannot say whether or not he'd show up; I have no knowledge about him, his history, really anything more than the crime you accuse him of.

My point is that cash bail practices become a de facto debtors prison sentence for those who cannot afford to pay them - predominantly the poor. If you believe that the law should view people as innocent until proven guilty, then what right does the State have to strip you of your liberty while you await your court date? Additionally, why is it that the only difference between someone in jail for this period and someone walking the streets is the money they have?

I think it depends on the offense and the level of proof existing at the bail hearing. Yes, one is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but sometimes there's no question of that. Example: video of the defendant tossing a lit roadway flare into a police car. That's A) violent and B) certainly more likely than not to be proven at trial: set a bail amount.

In contrast, a person gets picked up for having a pound of pot, went quietly without fighting when caught, that's A) non-violent and B) probably more likely than not proven at trial, still, because of A let the person go without bail.

Another example, a person gets arrested based on the statement of a person claiming he did something violent 10 years ago, that's A) violent and B) a very hard case to prove and the risk of locking up the innocent quite high: let the person go without bail.

Now any person might agree or disagree that the above is rational and a policy debate could be had, but what's going on in Portland is none of those: it's A) violent crime and B) almost definitely will be proved at trial, but the DA and Wheeler let the person go anyway. They let a person who IS violent and known to be violent back into the community repeatedly with zero regard for that community or common sense.

For the people want to make the bail system more fair, how about not leading with the most stupid use cases? Reinoehl for example -- in his last arrest there's a picture of him with the gun on the ground right next to him -- there's no way he's winning that case except through dumb luck. And then there is the case before that, where he got caught illegally concealing a gun and doing 111 mph while high. Aaand he's out. So third time around he murders a guy -- seriously, anyone interested in bail reform would take the Portland DA and punch him hard right in the kisser, cause he's only making enemies for that position.

I don't disagree that potentially violent offenders ought to have a separate criteria applied regarding pretrial detainment. I simply don't believe that bail should be used as a stand-in for a more formal detainment process related to the facts in a case. Even something as simple as the logic path in your post is a good start.

The system absolutely needs some reforms, and "the people" pushing said reforms are not leading with idiotic cases. The current actions from the DA do not appear to be attempts at reform at all and will actually hurt reform progress; they're politically motivated actions that he thinks will gain him the next step up in his career. (And why should we not expect this, having seen the other side of the coin from other DA's?) I'm not saying that it's right, only that it isn't outside the norm for a DA to make politically motivated decisions around the cases they choose to prosecute.
 
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It does seem like a lot of the people getting deep into the action have criminal records. The shooter the other night looks like a meth-head and has a criminal record. He's estranged from his family and they say he has "issues", even though for some reason he still seems to have his kids with him. The way he was guided into shooting the guy it's almost like the privileged white kids are finding specific people to do the real dirtywork for them.
 
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Ah, I recall your post about your daughter now. I'm sorry that happened to her - does she have any sort of repair timeline or when they'll be allowed back in?

I'm confused about the process that you've laid out regarding Pavel. How does he have a trial date if there was no arraignment or pretrial? You say trial and then say "show up for serving his 10 years" - is it a trial or sentencing?

But, assuming that his October date is for a trial, I cannot say whether or not he'd show up; I have no knowledge about him, his history, really anything more than the crime you accuse him of.

My point is that cash bail practices become a de facto debtors prison sentence for those who cannot afford to pay them - predominantly the poor. If you believe that the law should view people as innocent until proven guilty, then what right does the State have to strip you of your liberty while you await your court date? Additionally, why is it that the only difference between someone in jail for this period and someone walking the streets is the money they have?



I don't disagree that potentially violent offenders ought to have a separate criteria applied regarding pretrial detainment. I simply don't believe that bail should be used as a stand-in for a more formal detainment process related to the facts in a case. Even something as simple as the logic path in your post is a good start.

The system absolutely needs some reforms, and "the people" pushing said reforms are not leading with idiotic cases. The current actions from the DA do not appear to be attempts at reform at all and will actually hurt reform progress; they're politically motivated actions that he thinks will gain him the next step up in his career. (And why should we not expect this, having seen the other side of the coin from other DA's?) I'm not saying that it's right, only that it isn't outside the norm for a DA to make politically motivated decisions around the cases they choose to prosecute.
Pretrial detention? Just follow OSP's example.

LaVoy Finicum.

Take the good guys out before bail is even a consideration. KB was Governor.

For much of the time the Bundys were in isolated detention 23 hours a day. These were people PRESUMED innocent and detained on what could be legally be classified as no more than simple trespass, though they were never cited for such. They went to trial and were convicted of NOTHING.

Yet they spent 23 hours a day in isolation lockdown.

No bail, no internet, no TV, no 'innocent until proven guilty' privileges. They were warehoused and treated as convicted criminals despite their total innocence.

I use this only as an example, not to rehash the Malheur incident.
 
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That's why there are bondsmen. If bail is set so high the accused can't afford it, it's probably because they shouldn't be out on the street.
One of the most effective assets of the bail system is that of accountability by whomever it is posting bond. Often it's a family member who's going to make damned sure the perp shows up to trial. It may also be a shotgun wielding bounty hunter. Bail may be unjust at times but it is often an effective way of keeping jail cells available.
 

ilikegunspdx

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It does seem like a lot of the people getting deep into the action have criminal records. The shooter the other night looks like a meth-head and has a criminal record. He's estranged from his family and they say he has "issues", even though for some reason he still seems to have his kids with him. The way he was guided into shooting the guy it's almost like the privileged white kids are finding specific people to do the real dirtywork for them.
You sparked a memory of an earlier protest violence event for me possibly involving this guy. It was a Pdx shooting downtown. The video is on YouTube and I also posted it on NWFA somewhere in the past. I don’t think this guy was shown on it though but maybe?

It was an event where they had the guy up against the wall and took his gun. The gun went off and one lady in a car also shot as I recall. It was all described by a thin “freelance journalist”. He said a guy tried to break up black youths or something like that which is exactly what the murderer said on the YouTube video where he was talking about getting shot in the arm.

I bet that is the same event and this is the same guy. I’ll try to find the video I posted on NWFA and that would at least give us a date and there may be other videos out there of the same event. It would be interesting to see more detail on that event if it turns out to be the same guy. Could be the same day he got arrested possibly (July 5 i think it was).

Edit: found the thread and video on the event. It was July 26. I need to watch it again but the description of the event from the freelance journalist and from the murderer sound similar (breaking up group of black youths, etc.). https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/pdx-protest-shooting-sunday-7-26-2020.333506/

Edit2: I watched the video which was taken after the event and not enough info. there to tell much. If someone found further videos of the July 26 shooting downtown, or if someone contacted that freelance journalist, Ronald Edwards from spokane WA age 28 I think he said, he may be able to identify if the murderer was one of the guys in the July 26 event. If someone can find an email for Ronald, I would be happy to contact him and ask. It could be that it was the same guy and he hasn't connected the dots. Of course it could be unrelated also. Does anyone know when the murdered got shot in his arm? If it was July 26, then they surely are the same event I would think.

Edit3: I just noticed that the bloomberg video (where the murderer was describing how he got shot) was posted on July 27, one day after the July 26 shooting event. If anybody can find Ronald Edwards email I would appreciate it because I would like to contact him. He maybe can ID this guy and also might shed more light on the whole deal and/or help in the investigation.

From this July 26 KOIN 6 news article, it says

"Police first reported taking one person into custody, then a short time later a second person was detained.

A victim was not found at the scene, but someone was taken to the hospital via a private car with an apparent gunshot wound. Police say their injuries are non-life threatening."

Was that person who was taken to the hospital the murderer? Many circumstantial pieces appear to be fitting together, so far at least.
 
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Dude arms his 11 year old child with a bat and takes them to riot
. https://oregonlive.com/crime/2020/08/man-under-investigation-in-fatal-shooting-of-right-wing-demonstrator-in-portland-was-outside-mayors-condo-night-before-with-daughter.html
EgxqHr-U0AEg7JJ.jpeg EgxqHsEU0AEbVpx.jpeg

looks like Cavedweller beat me to it
 
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Ah, I recall your post about your daughter now. I'm sorry that happened to her - does she have any sort of repair timeline or when they'll be allowed back in?

I'm confused about the process that you've laid out regarding Pavel. How does he have a trial date if there was no arraignment or pretrial? You say trial and then say "show up for serving his 10 years" - is it a trial or sentencing?
first, my daughter and her husband moved out and the condo is up for sale, as are 12 other units in that building alone
property values on the units have dropped $100,000 since Feb

as for ol' Pavel, he was booked on 8 charges of Arson, then 3 days later, released without bail and given a date in Oct to show back up for his hearing
he has a court date on the calendar for Oct, and, the charges were not dropped, my daughter has a deg in Criminal Justice and has contacts with PPD
the 10 years is based on the penalty for class A felony arson in Oregon
they have definitive film of him starting 2 fires in their condo from security cameras, without mask or disguise
he deliberately set the fires to block fire exits and trap residents on the upper floors, every unit on the 4th floor suffered smoke damage and both elevators were damaged

I'm not quite sure how this new system works with the new D.A.
most, if not all of those arrested during demonstrations and riots are released within 48 hrs
but I have not followed those cases, if they are charged or the D.A's office is dropping the booking charges
if you have a name for another arrested rioter you can seach for booking and court dates
 

ilikegunspdx

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I submitted a crime stoppers report and notified a media person regarding the info in post #336 above. I don't know how helpful it would be if it's true, but a gun was reportedly stolen at the July 26 event which may or may not be related to the murder. Also if the murderer was the one rushed to the hospital via private car with a non-life threatening gunshot wound on July 26, the police should be able to get more info. such as current address etc. from the hospital. Of course it could all be a coincidence too ha ha.
 
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I submitted a crime stoppers report and notified a media person regarding the info in post #336 above. I don't know how helpful it would be if it's true, but a gun was reportedly stolen at the July 26 event which may or may not be related to the murder. Also if the murderer was the one rushed to the hospital via private car with a non-life threatening gunshot wound on July 26, the police should be able to get more info. such as current address etc. from the hospital. Of course it could all be a coincidence too ha ha.

Here's a video that witness did the next day when he came down from the adrenaline rush:

 
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