Another year for Ruger?

[PNWguy]

I never said they turned out junk.

I said they treated their employees quite poorly and that their finishers were paid barely above minimum wage, which shows.

If you would like to discuss the merits of employers being hostile towards their employees and how that affects quality, then do so.

I actually worked for the company.

I still buy Ruger firearms. I just try to avoid ones produced at the Prescott plant.

 

[Alexx1401]

I never said they turned out junk.

I said they treated their employees quite poorly and that their finishers were paid barely above minimum wage, which shows.

If you would like to discuss the merits of employers being hostile towards their employees and how that affects quality, then do so.

I actually worked for the company.

I still buy Ruger firearms. I just try to avoid ones produced at the Prescott plant.

This is part of what you said:
{I have numerous examples of how Ruger treated their employees poorly and how their Quality Control people were a joke...}
Son I understand you have some kind of hard hate for Ruger, great. Using hyperbolic stuff like you did here does nothing to win your case. No one if forced to work for Ruger. You made a choice to. This is still the US where they have TONS of regulations on manufacturing. If they were really doing harm to people they would have been sued out of business by now. If the QC was as you claim no one would buy what they make as the reputation would be in the toilet. I was a Machinist for a couple decades. When CNC's got going good the whole point was anyone who could pick their nose and not make it bleed could run one. The idea was to make parts fast and cheap. Companies invested HUGE in machinery and fixtures to do this. The people who were only capable of putting a part in a fixture and hitting the start button did not need and were not worth a lot of money. Anyone who could walk and chew gum could be taught to do that. If you wanted to make "real money" you had to be willing to learn. Like how to set up the jobs. Again anyone who wanted to learn could. Those who did not want to could stay making little money. Again companies do not exist to hand out money to people who have no motivation. When I started in my first shop I first leaned how to load a machine. I was not happy to do just that. So every opportunity to learn I was ready. Soon I was doing more complicated stuff. When they offered to teach how QC inspection was done guess who was glad to learn? Every time something else was offered I was there to say yes. Soon I was working for a Union shop. I was always paid above my pay scale. They would come up with ways to give me more money because I was able to do many things. Soon became a Foreman. Again because I showed motivation. If someone is motivated and finds the place they work does not offer them a path, LEAVE and go to another job. Ruger's job is to make a product people want at a price people want to pay. The quality and price of what they make is easy to see working. If things were anything like you are saying this would not happen. Opportunity is there for all who want to take it. Many do not want to. They want to stay in some dead end job and complain that the place they choose to work really sucks. <shrug>
Life is not always easy. If you want more you have to either win the lotto, be lucky enough to be born to people who are wealthy, or work to get ahead. The work to get ahead part is often not a popular choice.

 

[PNWguy]

Son I understand you have some kind of hard hate for Ruger, great.

Don't patronize me.

Using hyperbolic stuff like you did here does nothing to win your case. No one if forced to work for Ruger. You made a choice to.

It's not hyperbolic, it's the facts. I have no "case" to make. You're a Ruger fanboy, I get it. I'm just relaying my experience having actually worked for them and the observations I made. I worked for them for a few months as intended and then moved back up to Idaho. Not sure why you are implying that I was complaining about having to work there.

I never intended to make a career out of being a CNC operator. If I was, then I certainly wouldn't do it at Ruger. After a 6-month period as a temp worker, Ruger would then hire you as an official employee giving you benefits and a $.25 an hour raise. Still well below the market wage for an experienced CNC operator.

I have worked a few manufacturing jobs in my younger years and I get the dynamic between management and hourly workers. I've also owned my own business, as well as been to college for business.

Treating your employees poorly is bad business.

The plant manager at Ruger was a horrible manager. I attended my first plant meeting with him and was incredulous that he was in charge. He yelled, he threatened, he accused employees of undermining him.

All employees had to go through a metal detector going into work and have their lunchboxes searched. Same when leaving, which is understandable for a gun manufacturer. There were also roving security guards that walked around the plant watching the employees. It was an atmosphere of distrust and paranoia.

When a freak hail storm hit the plant and caused the roof to collapse, I was there working a machine when water started pouring in and the roof started to bow down and make cracking noises. We left the machines when water started pooling up around our boots.

We were ordered back to the machines, despite the extreme risk of electrical shock. I refused. Minutes later, the roof gave way and a 2' wave of water rushed over the area, damaging millions of dollars in new CNC machines and injuring employees.

A local news station interviewed an employee anonymously who recounted the incident. The plant manager sent out a message vowing to find out who the employee was and fire him.

You can defend such actions and attack me for simply recounting them, but I don't understand why you are so defensive about this.

 

[2A2Dend]

Yet another thread goes amuck.

 

[Member 34319]

I actually worked for Ruger for a few months in 2013 at the Prescott, AZ plant.

I have worked a few manufacturing jobs, so I know what it's like to be a cog in a machine.

Ruger has absolutely no regard for their employee's safety or well-being.

Their original manufacturing plant up in CT pays beginning CNC-operators $18.50 (or at least they did 6 years ago). In AZ, they pay you $10.50.

In fact, Ruger doesn't hire anyone off the street. They use a temp service called SOS Staffing. You apply through the temp agency, who gives you a test to determine your technical skills and general knowledge.

The higher you score, the better job you get and more money you make.

I had worked as an Auto Claims Adjuster for the past 6 years in Phoenix for USAA Insurance. I was going through a divorce and burned out, so I quit and wanted a low-stress job for a few months while I got ready to move back to Idaho.

I took the test and scored the highest, so was able to start as a CNC operator on a 4-Axis Fanuc machine making parts for the SR and old P-Series pistols for $10.50 an hour. The lowest scorers started in the finishing/polishing department at $8.50 an hour, which explains the rough finishes on every single Ruger I've bought the last decade or so.

I started on a team with about 10 other people. The Supervisor was a white guy my age who had been there 3 years. Nearly all of the operators were young Hispanic males. They all spoke english and the temp agency supposedly vetted them for being legal. No idea if they were, but they were all pretty pleasant to work with.

Turnover at that plant was extremely high.

I don't remember the numbers exactly anymore, but my employee number was 5-digits. Around 20k or so. The plant opened in the 90's and employed around 500 people. My supervisor who started 3 years before me, had an employee number about 3-4k lower than mine, meaning in three years, they had completely changed the employees in the plant 6 times.

My supervisor had developed a skin reaction to the CNC lubricant that everything is bathed in. It looks like skim milk, and is sprayed all over the bits and parts to aid in the machining. I was told that most companies change out the fluid every couple of months, but Ruger just kept using the old fluid and topping it off as needed. This apparently caused the fluid to turn into a toxic mess.

My supervisor could no longer even touch the stuff or his skin would start to fall off. They fired him for that.

I have numerous examples of how Ruger treated their employees poorly and how their Quality Control people were a joke...

I think you described virtually every manufacturer these days.

I worked for UPS for many years and this was virtually the same system. That was 15-20 years ago.

My time with a subcontractor at Intel showed no difference. Most Intel employees were getting bumped for subcontractors to be paid as you described.

 

[Member 34319]

Guys. Keep it cool please.

This thread started out about the great new options Ruger has brought us.

If you want to discuss how bad these products are or how much you don't like them.

Please start a thread of your own and post that there.

 

[xtratoy]

I'm waiting for a Ruger American Ranch in 7.62x39 in Stainless.

 

[CHLChris]

I just sold a Ruger so I could replace it with 2 more Rugers. Their catalog is rocking the market right now. At least on the rifle side of things... (I'm including AR "pistols" in this assessment)

Their service-sized pistols are losing to the competition, though! The LCR/LCP/LC9 group is killing it, but everything else on the handgun side just isn't doing it for me, in my opinion. And market numbers bear this out.

 

[JustShoot]

I know that this was custom ordered for a distributor, but this is darned near my dream revolver. GP100 5-shot, 5" heavy barrel in .44 Special.

View attachment 564771

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That one sexy Brute . Always been a sucker for there bigbores ever since I was 17 and had a blackhawk .41 . I will take a semiauto carry pistol any day over caring that PC carbine .
and ( just my opinion) Ruger could survive fine if they would concentrate on doing a narrow niche 'mass production to perfection' , instead of spreading themselves out and mass marketing low-end-$ volume like that carbine. There 2019 ruger msrp on the GP100's I think is keeping blow the 800-$ mark . It's not cheap. but it a fine handgun and in year 2019 you can spend-$ double that with no problem.
.

 

[jordanka16]

I just sold a Ruger so I could replace it with 2 more Rugers. Their catalog is rocking the market right now. At least on the rifle side of things... (I'm including AR "pistols" in this assessment)

Their service-sized pistols are losing to the competition, though! The LCR/LCP/LC9 group is killing it, but everything else on the handgun side just isn't doing it for me, in my opinion. And market numbers bear this out.

Too many other excellent names and pistols in that category I think, although the security 9 is a pretty decent pistol, at least for the few hundred rounds I fired. Seems more aimed at the Taurus or SCCY crowd though, which it is slightly expensive for. I doubt anyone who has the funds for a glock or a p320 is going to seriously consider the ruger.

 

[Flymph]

I think the PC Carbine was specifically designed to fill the void for featureless rifles, so it's tailored for a niche market.
The only real competitors I can think of are Keltec and HiPoint, unless you want to bass-adize an AR to fit regulations.

If the thing had wood furniture and not a take down, I'd be more into it. I think the caliber is fine, but would also consider a 357mag or 38 cal if given the option. I'd probably lose my mind if it was offered in .45acp and 10mm tho!

 

[po18guy]

Yet another thread goes amuck.

 

[Member 34319]

I think Ruger knows where they are at with their pistols.

They have the Rimfire Market down. Everyone that competes is virtually just copying them.

They have the rifle market down.

The fun market down.

Concealment market down.

They are very aware of what the customers want.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring a new pistol to the market like Mossberg did. One that uses an already established magazine.

 

[Alexx1401]

I think the PC Carbine was specifically designed to fill the void for featureless rifles, so it's tailored for a niche market.
The only real competitors I can think of are Keltec and HiPoint, unless you want to bass-adize an AR to fit regulations.

If the thing had wood furniture and not a take down, I'd be more into it. I think the caliber is fine, but would also consider a 357mag or 38 cal if given the option. I'd probably lose my mind if it was offered in .45acp and 10mm tho!

The way they are selling I fully expect and hope for both a .45 and 10mm. Would be GREAT if they offered it so it could be used for all 3 with a parts swap. I can see why they went with 9mm first. When the PCC market started to really catch fire that caliber was hands down the prominent one people were buying. The way they offered it to take several different mags, and set up to take a can, well they really saw were the market was going. One other plus, don't know it they did it knowing, but the not looking like a "Black Rifle" is often a good thing. Many who see mine at first glance think it's a .22.

 

[jordanka16]

The way they are selling I fully expect and hope for both a .45 and 10mm. Would be GREAT if they offered it so it could be used for all 3 with a parts swap. I can see why they went with 9mm first. When the PCC market started to really catch fire that caliber was hands down the prominent one people were buying. The way they offered it to take several different mags, and set up to take a can, well they really saw were the market was going. One other plus, don't know it they did it knowing, but the not looking like a "Black Rifle" is often a good thing. Many who see mine at first glance think it's a .22.

I use my mini 14 to introduce new shooters to center fire, because with the wood stock and a 5 round mag it's not an "evil black rifle". Some people are intimidated by ARs just because of the look and what they've seen and read about them in the media.

 

[Alexx1401]

I use my mini 14 to introduce new shooters to center fire, because with the wood stock and a 5 round mag it's not an "evil black rifle". Some people are intimidated by ARs just because of the look and what they've seen and read about them in the media.

Yes sadly the damn media has done a great job of instilling fear into many who see a "Black Rifle". LONG ago when Wife and I were dating we were in a Wally. She saw a Mini Ranch Rifle. Asked me about it so I had the clerk get it for us. Was showing her that even back then the idea was to make it look less "evil". Clerk was looking at me strange as I handed her the rifle back.

 

[Makers Mark]

I like Ruger and I'm encouraged by some of their new offerings. I have an older M77 chambered in 6mm and it has always been an easy shooter and very accurate.

Likewise the two stainless (2003ish)10/22's have never missed a beat. An 18" with boat paddle stock, and a 20" with a nice wood stock.

Haven't had a chance to get my newest Ruger out to the range yet (PC9) but it makes sense for me as I'm heavily invested in glock magazines, and was looking for a non-AR 9mm rifle.

I want to pick up another 10/22 before the July 1st date but can't decide on which version/model. To be honest I'm not particularly sold on the take-down concept, but I need to decide soon so I can get something on order.

 

[Flymph]

The way they are selling I fully expect and hope for both a .45 and 10mm. Would be GREAT if they offered it so it could be used for all 3 with a parts swap. I can see why they went with 9mm first. When the PCC market started to really catch fire that caliber was hands down the prominent one people were buying. The way they offered it to take several different mags, and set up to take a can, well they really saw were the market was going. One other plus, don't know it they did it knowing, but the not looking like a "Black Rifle" is often a good thing. Many who see mine at first glance think it's a .22.

Intentional or not, it's a smart move for them and a good option for us (especially if we lose a couple other options).
I've asked that question a few times, but only when I want to get excited about the PC Carbine in a shop.

 

[PNWguy]

I want to pick up another 10/22 before the July 1st date but can't decide on which version/model. To be honest I'm not particularly sold on the take-down concept, but I need to decide soon so I can get something on order.

Exactly why I picked up this Copper Mica Edition in Decmber...

 

[Member 5605]

Yet another thread goes amuck.

Yeah and it's probably going to get cleaned up.