An Open letter to the NRA about bump stocks

[titsonritz]

Thank you all. I was not sure the NRA again went the extra mile to destroy the Second Amendment. I cut up my NRA card into tiny pieces and mailed it back to them ... way back in 1968. The 1968 Gun Control Act. Yep.

What is happening here is the old frog in the hot water trick. Or the remaining Jewish people who kept justifying to themselves that Hitler was not so bad. You NRA member defenders have lost control of your own NRA.

Just me. Respectfully.

You win, sir...

 

[titsonritz]

Please...lets not turn this into a :
Republican vs. Democrat...
Conservative vs, Liberal...
Us vs, Them...
Etc...
Thread.

We have folks out there who don't like guns or gun ownership....they come in all flavors , parties and places...
Not one group / party has a squeaky clean , sterling pure , reputation for standing up for guns or gun owners.
Andy

Boom!! There it is, solid fact. Dig a little deeper if you doubt it.

 

[Slobray]

But the NRA and Trump are our biggest advocates.

Um, Trump says he supports the 2A, then does nothing but propose gun control laws since being in office (BGC for all, taking guns without due process, raising the age limit to buy guns and told Reps not to send reciprocity bill to senate. Then implements more gun control measures in 2 years, than 0bama did in his 8 years as president. Coincidentally, 0bama actually signed 2 laws expanding gun rights (National Park carry and allowing gun in checked baggage on Amtrak) in his first 2 years in office. Granted, they were small expansions, but they were expansions none the less. It's a very sad thing for me to say, but during their first terms, 0bama (the president and his policies that I hated the most), actually proved to be a bigger supporter of the 2A than did Trump.

Having said that, can you please explain how Trump is one of "our (I assume you mean 2A supporters) biggest advocates"?



Ray

 

[Boboclown]

And the saw cuts deeper into the branch........

I say let's stay in the NRA and support them, but push them to do what we want...

Or they keep doing what they want to do because people will just send them money anyways. If you dislike what they do and still send them money, are they really gonna change?

Not that it matters cause you still have gun owners who support gun control saying we don't need ARs or whatever random gun they decide we don't need.

 

[etrain16]

The anti's are getting what they want - turning gun owners on each other over who they should and shouldn't support.

Here's my take - like or leave it. No pro-gun organization is perfect. And they are all going to do things we like and don't like. Yes, I'm pizzed the NRA caved so quickly on this, however, I suspect there was a deeper political motive that helped them keep some pull in other areas, when needed. I don't know that for certain, just suspect it. All in all, bump stocks are hardly the hill to die on for gun rights, BUT, it is a very potentially slippery slope.

So, am I mad at Trump over this? Yes. Am I mad at the NRA over this? Yes. Am I mad at the ATF over this? Always.

But I will continue to support any and all organizations that help fight for my gun rights. Quite frankly, I'm tired of gun owners that refuse to get into the fight in any way, not only supporting this crap, but refusing to support groups that will fight it.

Like I said, take it or leave it. Fact is, I will continue to support the NRA, GOA, OFF, SAF, even when each of them pizz me off. Because if not them, then who is left? No one. What they won't get is any extra donations when they're not actively fighting for my rights. File a lawsuit to stop stuff like this, you can have my donation. Sit back and pizz my rights away, the funds dry up until the next fight.

 

[bolus]

All politicians are anti-gun. Until I see a senator or president open carrying at work nothing will change my mind.

yes one party is openly destroying gun rights and the other is just letting them get destroyed by inaction.

Second amendment party or nothing.

NRA is just like any other corporation. They may start off with lofty goals and ideals and then the marketing slugs and parasitic lawyers get a hold of it and it is all down hill course to bleed the host until it dies and then they jump ship to another organization.

GOA is taking the lead but will just go the same way if they get big.

 

[Flopsweat]

You are wrong sir and I would advise you not to personally accuse people you do not know of being "part of the problem."

I thought personal insults were not allowed on this site?

I don't think that was a personal insult. Also I agree with everything he said. People who harm our cause are indeed part of the problem.

 

[INTJ]

I don't think that was a personal insult. Also I agree with everything he said. People who harm our cause are indeed part of the problem.

Except I am NOT one who is harming our cause, and him posting to me and I quote "and you are part of the problem" is indeed personal and insulting.

He could have kept it on the conceptual level where we were arguing is wether it is better to stick with the NRA even though we get mad at them sometimes or leave them in protest.

If I wanted to be insulted and to insult back I would have stayed on Accurate Reloading........

 

[BigBull 301]

The exec order can immediately be challenged as it creates an ex-post facto situation and does not compensate the citizen for mandating a deprivation of physical property. We'll see who jumps on this. Or, is it a move toward class III status and federal fees?

GOA....Gun Owners of America are filing suit to stop this.

 

[DuneHopper]

The anti's are getting what they want - turning gun owners on each other over who they should and shouldn't support.

People have the right to support whom they like, that is the great thing about America.

But, if you accept money from the people, either donations or paycheck, you have a obligation, no a duty to perform as you state you will. I do not think gun owners are turning against each other, I think things are going according to the plan that was already put in place. Yet few are seeing the truth that is behind that curtain.

Lets remove the NRA, and say you accept money to save kittens, you tell everyone your plan to save said kittens.
Then you do the opposite, or worse spend money where the people didn't expect it and then go ooops.
I agree no group or lobby is perfect. But things in my opinion done by OFF and the NRA are not simple ooopsies.
Not being perfect means you didn't see what the opposition was doing, or misunderstood what was needed to fight some legislation. Agreeing to restrict firearms, and using money wrongly, is not a mistake and that's where I take issue. Maybe I should do what lobbies do, kinda do my job when it suits me, and then ask to get paid not only for what I didn't do, but pay me so I can do it again. Unity will come easily, when we realize what is at stake.

I guess I will never understand, why people will support anyone who does, what you ask them not to.
And then they do it anyways and ask for your support. That logic that lobbies are selling us is what is keeping unity away. The NRA is losing members, so are many pro-gun lobbies. Why? Because the fight is now hard, and they have no clue how to fight. The opposition has unity, because they are not afraid to fight. Today, we now have the NRA and Trump both telling the opposition how fearful they are of the anti-gun movement, what they just did empowered the opposition, nothing gun owners did, made that happen. What Trump and the NRA did made that happen.

Sad state indeed.
PS I could give a rat arse about bump stocks, but if I want one to place on my firearm, Trump nor the NRA are going to tell me how they want standard met. And I voted for the guy, and was a NRA member for like 30 years.
I do not take my feelings lightly, means allot to me when I am betrayed by those I should trust.

 

[leadcounsel]

^^^ Interesting, I wonder if a gun group will SUE the NRA for caving on this. It does seem like bad faith to accept donations and then CAVE on and SUPPORT banning bump stocks... WTF???

 

[Boboclown]

GOA....Gun Owners of America are filing suit to stop this.

Wait, you mean there's actually an organization that does not support this and is actually trying to do something? Say it ain't so, the NRA is supposed to be our only option!

 

[Flopsweat]

Except I am NOT one who is harming our cause, and him posting to me and I quote "and you are part of the problem" is indeed personal and insulting.

He could have kept it on the conceptual level where we were arguing is wether it is better to stick with the NRA even though we get mad at them sometimes or leave them in protest.

If I wanted to be insulted and to insult back I would have stayed on Accurate Reloading........

This will be my last reply, as I'm not getting into a pissing match.
You said:

We have to play the long game. That means we will win some and lose some and must pick our battles. It also means we don't throw away the organization that has done more to protect 2A rights than ANY organization ever.

Perhaps if everyone who has resigned the NRA in protest stayed and advocated for them, the NRA would be much larger and better able to fight for lesser issues like bump stocks.

Bump stocks are not a "lesser issue" when they broke new ground in how they went about banning them. Watching them break this new ground and passing it off as a minor issue is indeed doing our cause harm, and you took part. If you find that sort of logic insulting, so be it.

 

[po18guy]

This is crisis legislation. I demand that Toyota Camrys be banned the next time one is used to kill someone. We'll go make by make, model by model. Starting with Ted Kennedy's 1968 Oldsmobile...

 

[leadcounsel]

The scary precedent, as seen in a few videos, is that the bump stock is just a part that allows harnessing the inertia of the semi-auto gun to create a high rate of fire.

I can promise you that this precedent threatens ALL semi auto guns. Handguns, rifles, and shotguns. If you *don't care* about bump stocks, you really are missing the issue. This has nothing to do with bump stocks. It's a direct assault on semi-auto guns.

Oh, and I bet very soon those pistol braces will be made illegal under the same precedent this has set.

It's all in the pipe ladies and gents. Bank on it.

 

[po18guy]

As to rates of fire, the manual that came with my S&W Model 28 .357 in 1973 stated, "The rate of fire is limited only by the dexterity of the shooter."

 

[Superglide]

Here's my take on the core of this issue:

> The people we are against (gungrabbers) tactic is to shotgun out ten unpalatable measures and compromise by only enacting one or two (at a time).

> NRA says we got your back on most issues but we'll compromise here and do nothing on this "minor" thing.

Run this equation out a few times and you will see the trending direction....

 

[leadcounsel]

Here's my take on the core of this issue:

> The people we are against (gungrabbers) tactic is to shotgun out ten unpalatable measures and compromise by only enacting one or two (at a time).

> NRA says we got your back on most issues but we'll compromise here and do nothing on this "minor" thing.

Run this equation out a few times and you will see the trending direction....

This is correct. They beat Trump at his own "art of the deal."

Start with totally extreme positions, and then compromise on what you really wanted. With the gun grabbers, they are doing it state-by-state, laws and initiatives in every direction. Tied up in courts for years. Wasting our time and resources. Each of their victories is a death of the 2A. They want to:

* Ban guns that are TOO useful to a militia (ARs, AKs, magazines, bump stocks, etc.) as TOO dangerous (in spite of clear protections under the 2A).

* Ban guns that are NOT "useful" to a militia (handguns, short shotguns, knives, nunchucks, swords, sharp sticks, etc.) (in spite of clear protections under the 2A).

* Ban "non-sporting" guns and accessories like magazines, bayonets, etc. (in spite of clear protections under the 2A).

* Ban cosmetic features (in spite of clear protections under the 2A).

One law at a time. If they propose 100 and pass 10, they win. After several generations we are left with nothing. literally.

 

[Superglide]

Even our wins do not count. Our money and resources to retain what is stated in 2A will be drained, not the swamp.
Furthermore, outlawing what was legally obtained and demanding destruction without compensation should be a red flag and putrid smell to all Americans. As I said on a different thread- the Art of the Deal has become The Art of the Steal.

 

[284guy]

I believe bump stocks are garbage and that most of those throwing a fit don't even own one. This is a game of chess and many ignorant gun owners are acting like the seagul. All of that said, while I don't believe in bans, this was a good sacrificial lamb to the gun grabbers. They think they got something, and serious gun owners are just laughing