Active shooter at a Texas HS

[etrain16]

Ah, nope, no I don't!
Shall not be infringed! All those mindless sheeple demand action, but none actually know what action to take, because they don't know what will actually work, so they beg the politicos who are chomping at the bit to go do something, and some thing is exactly what we are getting!
No one wants to admit what the real proble.s are, because to do so would be an admission of guilt over a series of failures in the past, and to move forward would require the added expense of doing the right thing! They spend billions to fight against the guns, instead of spending that same money on health care for the mentally ill, but we're the bad guys here!

I'm pretty sure his post was tongue in cheek.... That's how I read it, anyway.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I'm easily confused!
I figured it was, but........

 

[etrain16]

I'm easily confused!
I figured it was, but........

Well, he can clarify if it's not, but knowing him, I don't think it could be a serious suggestion

 

[Ura-Ki]

It' all good!

 

[Slobray]

You forgot "gun humping"

Damn it, I know I forgot one, but didn't realize that it was one of the most important ones...............



Ray

 

[Ura-Ki]

I was going to say, sheesh Ray, I allready humped three guns today, and plan on humping at least that many more before dark

 

[Slobray]

I'm pretty sure his post was tongue in cheek.... That's how I read it, anyway.

I'm easily confused!
I figured it was, but........

Well, he can clarify if it's not, but knowing him, I don't think it could be a serious suggestion

Just so everyone knows, I don't really advocate any of what was written in that post.............. I was just mocking those "gun owners" that seem to only visit the forum discussions after some horrific event to troll, push gun control as the only solution and attack anyone who disparages the anti's political ideology/agenda.


Ray

 

[etrain16]

Just so everyone knows, I don't really advocate any of what was written in that post.............. I was just mocking those "gun owners" that seem to only visit the forum discussions after some horrific event to troll, push gun control as the only solution and attack anyone who disparages the anti's political ideology/agenda.


Ray

See! I knew you were on our side!

 

[Slobray]

I was going to say, sheesh Ray, I allready humped three guns today, and plan on humping at least that many more before dark

As long as you have protection..................



Ray

 

[Ura-Ki]

Actually, That's a good observation! When I first joined here several years ago, I was under the false beliefs that compromise was possable, and I even thought we could come to an understanding with whay I believed was "Reasonable" turns out I WAS WRONG, BIG TIME! I honestly had no idea how bad thigs were for us, and that was my awakening! Now I see the dark side for what it truly is, and I will continue to fight it no compromise, no ground given, not one inch!
I think many folks still believe as I once did, blissfully ignorant to the truth, if we dont stop all this nonsense now, we're going to be in a big azz fight for our rights soon enough!

 

[h4344]

My personal thoughts on how to stem the tide of these mass shootings are as follows.

1: Fast tracked court process and mandatory execution of persons convicted of mass shootings regardless of mental illnesses. Which is not to say they do not get due process however if there is video footage, multiple witnesses and it is beyond a shadow of a doubt it was that person, they die.

2: Increased penalties for those who fail to properly secure firearms which lead to mass shootings. This does not involve any inspections or violations or law abiding gun owners privacy, however if a shooter did not have to rip a gun from some form of safe or another and just pulled it from your closet then you need to face jail time. Almost all responsible gun owners already follow this and we know there are quick access safes for sale for home defense. The idea is hopefully nobody is ever found guilty of failing to do this and it motivates gun owners to lock our weapons up.

I understand the second idea will be less popular however to be frank in my own opinion if you do not already secure your firearms by safe or the included gun locks then you probably should not own a gun.

 

[slimmer13]

2: Increased penalties for those who fail to properly secure firearms which lead to mass shootings. This does not involve any inspections or violations or law abiding gun owners privacy, however if a shooter did not have to rip a gun from some form of safe or another and just pulled it from your closet then you need to face jail time. Almost all responsible gun owners already follow this and we know there are quick access safes for sale for home defense. The idea is hopefully nobody is ever found guilty of failing to do this and it motivates gun owners to lock our weapons up.

I'm old, but not THAT old ( late 30s), and when I was a kid, I had full access to all my dad's guns. It was nothing to grab a .22 and go do some plinking or grab the .220 swift and dust a yote that was nosing around while my dad was at work. It's still this way in many rural communities where firearms are tools that are commonly used by children on a daily basis. I think we need to figure out how to get back to that place as a culture, where children are taught responsibility and trusted rather than the government forcing a one size fits all solution onto everyone.

Like I said earlier in this thread, if you are a halfway decent parent, you should know that your child is crazy, and you should have a damn good safe, but government force can never replace common sense.

 

[Ura-Ki]

^^^THAT'S A BINGO^^^^
We do not need any more government interferences! No more gun laws, no more infringements! Folks SHOULD have their firearms secured, but that's entirelly on them! A reasonable person should value his personal property enough to secure it, but that's up to each person to decide on their own! There are an aweful lot of gun thefts from folks that didn' secure their arms, and that's an issue too, but we need to keep the damn gov out if this!

 

[h4344]

^^^THAT'S A BINGO^^^^
We do not need any more government interferences! No more gun laws, no more infringements! Folks SHOULD have their firearms secured, but that's entirelly on them! A reasonable person should value his personal property enough to secure it, but that's up to each person to decide on their own! There are an aweful lot of gun thefts from folks that didn' secure their arms, and that's an issue too, but we need to keep the damn gov out if this!

I do agree about the idea of less government interference, hence my suggestion involving that there be no inspections to ensure compliance. The gun owners assume the added legal risk if they choose to not secure them and the worst happens.

However do not misunderstand what I propose. If a police officer walked into your home and saw an unsecured firearm well that's your home, your property and your business and he will be on his way with no issue save his own opinions.

When someone steals however an unsecured weapon from a home (Be it a relative or otherwise) and he does harm to the community with it, that is a perfectly legitimate excuse for the state government to tell said person that they bubblegumed up by not even following the most basic of safety practices. Other people have been harmed because of that persons mistake and now they must pay the price of that mistake just as the victims have.

EDIT: Long story short, store your weapons however you want but if your kid kills a bunch of people because you could not be bothered to lock your guns up with at minimum the free included lock you need to be in jail. Give the kid a key if you want but the risk belongs to you as the owner and possible victims if you don't notice he has behavior issues.

 

[etrain16]

I do agree about the idea of less government interference, hence my suggestion involving that there be no inspections to ensure compliance. The gun owners assume the added legal risk if they choose to not secure them and the worst happens.

However do not misunderstand what I propose. If a police officer walked into your home and saw an unsecured firearm well that's your home, your property and your business and he will be on his way with no issue save his own opinions.

When someone steals however an unsecured weapon from a home (Be it a relative or otherwise) and he does harm to the community with it, that is a perfectly legitimate excuse for the state government to tell said person that they bubblegumed up by not even following the most basic of safety practices. Other people have been harmed because of that persons mistake and now they must pay the price of that mistake just as the victims have.

EDIT: Long story short, store your weapons however you want but if your kid kills a bunch of people because you could not be bothered to lock your guns up with at minimum the free included lock you need to be in jail. Give the kid a key if you want but the risk belongs to you as the owner and possible victims if you don't notice he has behavior issues.

Just out of curiosity, extending the logic of your argument out - would you also agree if a kid steals a parent's car and kills someone with it, would you expect jail time for the parent for not securing their keys/vehicle? How about if a child gets a hold of alcohol in your home, takes it and shares it with other kids, and perhaps one dies of alcohol poisoning - would you want to see jail time for the parent for not securing the alcohol? How about matches, a lighter, gasoline, bleach, kitchen knife, etc., etc. At what point do we judge the parent is legally responsible for not securing every single item in a home that could be used to cause harm or death to someone else? Do you see where I'm going with this? If you're going to use that line of reasoning for guns, the only way to be consistent is to equally apply it to other things as well, otherwise, it's an unfair punishment based on the feeling that guns are somehow more dangerous than the other potential threats I mentioned.

I'm all for securing guns in the home, even more so if you have kids or perhaps an adult with say mental issues, you need to take extra steps. But at what point do you know if you've taken sufficient steps? Is a trigger lock enough? Cable lock? Stack On style locking cabinet? Or is only a full safe considered enough to satiate the desire of the DA to hang someone over a shooting?

I get where you're going, and why. But I see way too many opportunities for this to be abused. Ultimately, the responsibility, and therefore the punishment, should fall on the person doing the crime. Unless someone can be shown to be extremely and knowingly negligent in a way that actually helps encourage the bad act, then perhaps something could be done. But before that happens, there needs to be some very clearly defined, and mutually agreed upon terms and definitions (by all sides in the discussion) about what constitutes negligence in such a case.

 

[bbbass]

My personal thoughts on how to stem the tide of these mass shootings are as follows.

1: Fast tracked court process and mandatory execution of persons convicted of mass shootings regardless of mental illnesses. Which is not to say they do not get due process however if there is video footage, multiple witnesses and it is beyond a shadow of a doubt it was that person, they die.

2: Increased penalties for those who fail to properly secure firearms which lead to mass shootings. This does not involve any inspections or violations or law abiding gun owners privacy, however if a shooter did not have to rip a gun from some form of safe or another and just pulled it from your closet then you need to face jail time. Almost all responsible gun owners already follow this and we know there are quick access safes for sale for home defense. The idea is hopefully nobody is ever found guilty of failing to do this and it motivates gun owners to lock our weapons up.

I understand the second idea will be less popular however to be frank in my own opinion if you do not already secure your firearms by safe or the included gun locks then you probably should not own a gun.

EDIT: Long story short, store your weapons however you want but if your kid kills a bunch of people because you could not be bothered to lock your guns up with at minimum the free included lock you need to be in jail. Give the kid a key if you want but the risk belongs to you as the owner and possible victims if you don't notice he has behavior issues.

Yes to #1, no to #2.

You've heard from the nice man, now it's my turn.

Yes I will store my weapon however I want, thanx for your permission. And the risk already belongs to me, because, as I am so weary of saying, the principle of criminal negligence applies. Get it????????

You have a right to your opinion, but just to be clear I do not care if you think I should own a gun!!!

What you ask for, jail time, would still require the passage of new laws. And I don't think it would pass constitutional muster... haven't we already posted the Supreme Court decision on that in this thread???

I live in a rural area... we have virtually ZERO theft of firearms from homes here, cars yes, but not homes. And yes we do have home invasions. LONG STORY SHORT, I should not be bothered to store my firearms how YOU think I should. I will not submit to YOUR (the Supreme Court say storage falls under my 2A right to self-defense) judgement, only that of a court. Which ain't gonna happen. YOU will not deprive me, nor especially my wife from ready access to my self defense as has been decided by the SUPREME COURT of the land.

You think I should use those stupid cable locks? Let's see you find a key and get that stupid lock off there in an emergency!!! And as for using "easy" access handgun safes... can you guarantee they will always work? That my wife won't get all panicky and not remember the number or how to use it? I have 4 handguns stored in locations that I think will be beneficial in case of a "home invasion" style attack... you offering to pay for 4 handgun safes? How bout the three long guns that I have strategically placed... you gonna figure how I "should" be securing those?

As I, and others have said, NO MORE LAWS penalizing gun owners!!! Just shove them where the sun don't shine.

You may think I have a bad attitude, but YOU started it.

To all those that think one size fits all ideas will work as a response to this shooting, you're having a bad dream!

 

[h4344]

Yes to #1, no to #2.

You've heard from the nice man, now it's my turn.

Yes I will store my weapon however I want, thanx for your permission. And the risk already belongs to me, because, as I am so weary of saying, the principle of criminal negligence applies. Get it????????

You have a right to your opinion, but just to be clear I do not care if you think I should own a gun!!!

What you ask for, jail time, would still require the passage of new laws. And I don't think it would pass constitutional muster... haven't we already posted the Supreme Court decision on that in this thread???

I live in a rural area... we have virtually ZERO theft of firearms from homes here, cars yes, but not homes. And yes we do have home invasions. LONG STORY SHORT, I should not be bothered to store my firearms how YOU think I should. I will not submit to YOUR (the Supreme Court say storage falls under my 2A right to self-defense) judgement, only that of a court. Which ain't gonna happen. YOU will not deprive me, nor especially my wife from ready access to my self defense as has been decided by the SUPREME COURT of the land.

You think I should use those stupid cable locks? Let's see you find a key and get that stupid lock off there in an emergency!!! And as for using "easy" access handgun safes... can you guarantee they will always work? That my wife won't get all panicky and not remember the number or how to use it? I have 4 handguns stored in locations that I think will be beneficial in case of a "home invasion" style attack... you offering to pay for 4 handgun safes? How bout the three long guns that I have strategically placed... you gonna figure how I "should" be securing those?

As I, and others have said, NO MORE LAWS penalizing gun owners!!! Just shove them where the sun don't shine.

You may think I have a bad attitude, but YOU started it.

To all those that think one size fits all ideas will work as a response to this shooting, you're having a bad dream!

Woah there sparky calm yourself. Save it for the gun grabbers or I'll have to take my permission back. So long as you have it though you can stick them in whatever crevice pleases you most.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Easy folks, no need to get the depends in a bunch and get this thread locked! We have a good discussion going on here!

Back to your corners please!

 

[bbbass]

Woah there sparky calm yourself. Save it for the gun grabbers or I'll have to take my permission back. So long as you have it though you can stick them in whatever crevice pleases you most.

Yours. F U for calling me Sparky. I did not call you names. And yes, YOU are a gun grabber. Do NOT presume to tell me to calm down dickweed. You are proposing new laws that THREATEN my wife's safety while implying that I am irresponsible. I'm not gonna just sit back on that.

 

[h4344]

Just out of curiosity, extending the logic of your argument out - would you also agree if a kid steals a parent's car and kills someone with it, would you expect jail time for the parent for not securing their keys/vehicle? How about if a child gets a hold of alcohol in your home, takes it and shares it with other kids, and perhaps one dies of alcohol poisoning - would you want to see jail time for the parent for not securing the alcohol? How about matches, a lighter, gasoline, bleach, kitchen knife, etc., etc. At what point do we judge the parent is legally responsible for not securing every single item in a home that could be used to cause harm or death to someone else? Do you see where I'm going with this? If you're going to use that line of reasoning for guns, the only way to be consistent is to equally apply it to other things as well, otherwise, it's an unfair punishment based on the feeling that guns are somehow more dangerous than the other potential threats I mentioned.

I'm all for securing guns in the home, even more so if you have kids or perhaps an adult with say mental issues, you need to take extra steps. But at what point do you know if you've taken sufficient steps? Is a trigger lock enough? Cable lock? Stack On style locking cabinet? Or is only a full safe considered enough to satiate the desire of the DA to hang someone over a shooting?

I get where you're going, and why. But I see way too many opportunities for this to be abused. Ultimately, the responsibility, and therefore the punishment, should fall on the person doing the crime. Unless someone can be shown to be extremely and knowingly negligent in a way that actually helps encourage the bad act, then perhaps something could be done. But before that happens, there needs to be some very clearly defined, and mutually agreed upon terms and definitions (by all sides in the discussion) about what constitutes negligence in such a case.

In my mind just about anything that shows foresight was used to keep someone away from a firearm in the same household when said person should not have it.

Although your point about the vehicles or other forms of possible liability issues makes sense. Maybe the real solution really is trying to steer our countries morales back to what they once were.