Would you have fired?

[IronMonster]

That supports my case, that she was just a crazy driver. she did not have it out for the girls

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Crazy was swerving between lanes, cut off the girls and stopped short BEFORE they flipped her off.

http://www.kcra.com/news/auburn-road-rage-victim-this-cant-be-real/30379110

It escalated after that to pulling over, then ramming.

 

[freestoneangler]

That supports my case, that she was just a crazy driver. she did not have it out for the girls

"Your case"? What is it exactly that you are trying to prove? A middle finger (or a moonshot for that matter) is hardly basis for the actions taken by the offending loon.

 

[IronMonster]

What was stated above, That the lady was just a nut job, that she was not intentionally trying to pick a fight with these girls by tailgating them as Heritic stated. Its pretty clear that she was just out and about being crazy and these girls happened to pick a fight with her over her bad driving.

And it has nothing to do with fault or justifying actions. It is a simple cause and effect. The girl flipped her off, crazy lady went nuts. Its not the girls fault the lady is nuts, Its not a sane thing to do to chase someone down because they flipped you off, however its what happened.

Still, chances are really, really good that if she would not have flipped the crazy lady off none of this would have happened. It does not make the girl "at fault" it is simply cause and effect and you dont have a clue what the effect is going to be when you stick your finger in the window. That person might be mental and run you off the road or even pull out a gun and shoot you.

The fact that you think the person was tailgating you has nothing to do with what happens after you pick a fight by stick your finger in the window, and you are picking a fight (whether that person chooses to accept your challenge to there behavior or not)

In my case I was not at fault, Those four 25 year old guys should not have chased down two 16 year old kids and beat them up. Still would not have happend if I wouldnt have flipped him off. Action / reaction, No action (me not flipping them off) no reaction (they dont chase me down and beat me up.


Its pretty simple, Dont turn your perceived slight ( in this case the crazy lady following too close) into a actual confrontation by giving someone the finger.
.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

What was stated above, That the lady was just a nut job, that she was not intentionally trying to pick a fight with these girls by tailgating them as Heritic stated. Its pretty clear that she was just out and about being crazy and these girls happened to pick a fight with her over her bad driving.

You are obviously not reading the updated news reports and did not watch the victims interview.

Moving on, if the girls had missed that exit and were told that no police were in the area would firing one round into the middle of the trucks radiator have been justified after being rammed?

 

[IronMonster]

where are the victims interviews? I have not seen them.

 

[IronMonster]

http://www.kcra.com/news/woman-recounts-i80-road-rage-shes-saying-shes-a-cop/30381820

If this is what you mean, I think it perfectly supports my view. The crazy lady was driving crazy, The girl flipped her off and she went mental. How does that do anything but support exactly what I am saying?

 

[mjbskwim]

I'm guessing those that think giving the bird is no big deal grew up in the city. I grew up in a town of 3000 people 100 miles from the closest real town. If you flipped someone off you better be ready to suffer the consequences. You did not flip someone off without fully expecting to stand toe to toe with them, if you ran they would catch you sooner or later and everybody knows everyone and everything that goes on. It was understood where I grew up, you don't run your mouth or start sh$t unless you are prepared to finish it. I actually think we would live in a far better world if kids learned at an early age that they could not run on at the neck without expecting the person to stand up for themselves and put you in your place. Saying folks who will not tolerate verbal abuse are somehow weak is a bit silly.

I'm guessing this is directed to me and I'm coming downtown tomorrow to duke it out now.Never mind I don't go to the city for much of anything anymore.And you'd drop a hammer on my toe and I'd be out for 6mo.
You live in Tacoma/Pierce co. now right? You take offense to getting flipped off and you will be mad all the time.
Any time I have been flipped off it was warranted. And I could care less.That usually makes the flippie madder.

Now I never said folks who won't tolerate verbal abuse weak. Name calling ain't verbal abuse.That's done because the person isn't eloquent enough to demean you intelligently. Then who cares?
Now verbal abuse as in they are yelling and such,that's a no go.You live around a bunch of idiots in urban situations,you have to pick and choose which idiots are worth big trouble and which are worth a laugh and a walk away

 

[The Heretic]

I think that's silly, you think that this crazy person had enough clarity, modivation and desire to go out and pick fights with people and the method she chose was tailgating? Really?

Yes. I do.

I have a little bit of experience with women like that (my ex-wife).

Don't underestimate them.

They can think clearly enough to get done whatever it is that they want to do.

It isn't that their intellect is impaired, it is their goals and judgement that are usually the problem.

From what little I read of her behavior, I suspect she is paranoid and has some kind of issue with drivers or maybe they are just a convenient target, the retirement home she attacked (I suspect she was an employee there - possibly fired for her behavior).

 

[IronMonster]

I'm guessing this is directed to me and I'm coming downtown tomorrow to duke it out now.Never mind I don't go to the city for much of anything anymore.And you'd drop a hammer on my toe and I'd be out for 6mo.
You live in Tacoma/Pierce co. now right? You take offense to getting flipped off and you will be mad all the time.
Any time I have been flipped off it was warranted. And I could care less.That usually makes the flippie madder.

Now I never said folks who won't tolerate verbal abuse weak. Name calling ain't verbal abuse.That's done because the person isn't eloquent enough to demean you intelligently. Then who cares?
Now verbal abuse as in they are yelling and such,that's a no go.You live around a bunch of idiots in urban situations,you have to pick and choose which idiots are worth big trouble and which are worth a laugh and a walk away

Naw, I agree. And I think you got me all wrong. I am not saying that I get all bent out of shape if someone flips me off. ( I mean I have, but I typically just smile and wave) I am saying that there can be consequences to doing so. There often was consequences of doing so where I grew up

Around here maybe not 99 times out of a 100 but that one time can be a doozie. Its better to just be the bigger person and not make the situation worse by flipping someone off.

The finger is a symbolic "F-you" Its sign language, a verbal signal, Why be the name caller? Why be the person who has to start crap? What do you have to prove?


I do live around a bunch of idiots in urban situations who talk a lot of crap with no consequences, But things would be a lot better if they got there butt handed to them once in a while for picking fights.

I'll quote a lil MLK for ya, I think he was a pretty good speaker and got the point across.

"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy.
Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

Let it go.... Walk away. Why make it worse by flipping someone off? When you do why are you surprised they went nuts?


And your welcome to stop by, Id even buy lunch. I bet we could talk about it with very little chance of anyone getting hit

 

[mjbskwim]

You will have to make it to Sequim.
Really,I don't do across the water for anything but to pass thru

 

[The Heretic]

I agree there can be consequences - I know this from personal experience; I got into a fight when I was a teen because someone did something very provoking to me and I flipped them off.

I am saying that flipping someone off, or in any other way conveying that someone is an an idiot, anal orifice, etc., is not justification for them responding in a physical manner.

I say that because I hear this as an excuse all the time for physical responses to verbal insults. It isn't an ethical response, it isn't a rational response, and it isn't a legal response. In this case the two women that are the victims here would still have a legal defense if the crazy woman attacked them in response to their conveying displeasure at her tailgating.

Moreover, any person who thinks it is justified to respond physically to a verbal insult had better be prepared for a whole different level of response from the person they attack physically - that person may indeed respond with a firearm.

The days of "stepping outside" and trading blows and then walking away after doing so are over. A lot of people would take someone punching them in the nose for a verbal exchange as what it is legally; an assault, and respond in kind, especially if they fear for their life. When I was assaulted it was two on one (my one) and one of those persons was physically much more intimidating and capable than I was - so if the same thing happened again today, I might very easily respond not by trading blows, but by using a firearm because I may be fearing for my life at that point.

Then there are the crazy people who escalate stuff all out of proportion not out of fear, but out of misplaced anger mixed with subconscious paranoia. One problem they have is that they may have picked on someone who is even more unhinged and quite willing to go well beyond their level and just flat take them out right there and then. Take for example the guy in NYC who killed the two cops - how would he have responded to this crazy woman?

 

[Koda]

the two girls in the car didn't instigate the fight.

The motive of the crazy lady doesn't matter once she takes action. Tailgating is menacing as well as dangerous and demands a response... some responses are better than others but in this case the two ladies response didn't deserve assault. The crazy lady was looking for a fight.

Moving on, if the girls had missed that exit and were told that no police were in the area would firing one round into the middle of the trucks radiator have been justified after being rammed?

this is a good question. The crazy lady is ramming their car and thus using deadly force certainly the use of lethal force is justified... but I'm not certain shooting a firearm is justified because it couldn't be done safely while moving it would be far easier to simply come to a stop and put the situation to your advantage.

 

[clearconscience]

If someone is using their vehicle to assault you then I would think you would have a good argument for self defense using a handgun.
I would think about it if my family was in the car, if not maybe a citizen's pit into the wall.

I truly believe in the idea of never hitting a women, However, defense against being assaulted in different. Just like a citizen picking up a weapon it then a soldier. A women attacking me or my family is no longer a lady, your a criminal.

 

[Redcap]

Fired? No. Put her into a wall or forced her to roll her vehicle? Absolutely.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

That little Mazda vs a full size truck would be like

 

[The Heretic]

That little Mazda vs a full size truck would be like

No, not really - the difference is not that stark.

I was once pushed into the ditch when a VW Beetle (old - classic, not new style) hit my '59 Chevy pickup as I drove alongside it.

Three thousand pounds (what compact cars weigh today) vs. five to six thousand (full sized SUV) still has an impact.

 

[Redcap]

That little Mazda vs a full size truck would be like

Not if you have a decent grasp of physics and know how to drive.

 

[IronMonster]

Well, Its obvious we all have different opinions. You certainly dont have to agree with me, we cant all be right

 

[Gunguy45]

Grow the F up!

I don't even want to hear the opinion of the asshat who thinks
"the finger" is an incitement to violence.

If you really believe that, GO AWAY. Go find a forum for asshats.

Meanwhile the GROWNUPS here will discuss why in the video shown, that though t the girls in question certainly had a LEGAL right to shoot, they didn't have a MORAL right to shoot.

Just because the law ALLOWS you to do something , doesn't mean you SHOULD do it..