Would you have fired?

[The Heretic]

Well, Its obvious we all have different opinions. You certainly dont have to agree with me, we cant all be right

My opinion is based on personal first hand experience.

I have been struck from behind four times and hit two other cars from behind twice (each time the size of the vehicles was disparate), knocked in the ditch once by a much lighter vehicle, hit a somewhat larger car once, and hit a city bus with a small car once.

Of course mass matters, it is basic physics, but a larger vehicle is not immune to the effects of a smaller car striking it, and velocity matters also. If you know how to do it properly, a smaller vehicle can run a larger vehicle off the road. In my case, the person in the VW wasn't even trying and she succeeded because neither of us were expecting it to happen (it was both our faults).

 

[IronMonster]

So is mine, I flipped a guy off and got the piss beat out of me. I know that these girls would not have had this experience if they would not have flipped off the crazy lady and would have simply moved to the next lane and let her pass. Even the girls witness video clearly states that it was when she flipped her of that she went nuts.

 

[IronMonster]

Grow the F up!

I don't even want to hear the opinion of the asshat who thinks
"the finger" is an incitement to violence.

If you really believe that, GO AWAY. Go find a forum for asshats.

Meanwhile the GROWNUPS here will discuss why in the video shown, that though t the girls in question certainly had a LEGAL right to shoot, they didn't have a MORAL right to shoot.

Just because the law ALLOWS you to do something , doesn't mean you SHOULD do it..

I really dont care what you want you hear, Your the child calling names and pitching a fit.

And I am not saying it flipping off someone justifys violence, I am saying flipping off people often leads to violence. There is a big difference

Flipping someone off is what the "adults" do hu? that is pretty laughable. The girls would not have had a incident at all if they would have done the adult thing and simple got out of the crazy lady's way rather than flipping her off.

If it wasn't the girl giving her the finger that set her off tell me what it was?

here is the girl in her own words saying that she regretted flipping her off and if she had it to do over she wouldn't have. "As soon as I flipped her off, she got very irate" Cant be much clearer than that.

http://www.kcra.com/news/woman-recounts-i80-road-rage-shes-saying-shes-a-cop/30381820

 

[IronMonster]

Flipped em off, Attacks them.

 

[IronMonster]

Flipped her off, freaks out

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/03/28/road-rage-truck-crash

 

[IronMonster]

Here is an bit on "How to avoid road rage" Guess what, It says "rude gestures" is one of the common causes of road rage.

http://www.lifescript.com/well-bein...&du=1&ef_id=VJw6xwAAAOv-UZJE:20141225162647:s

 

[IronMonster]

Here is another, Flipped them off, went crazy. You starting to see a pattern here?

http://jalopnik.com/5933148/question-of-the-weekend-whats-your-craziest-road-rage-story



I bet probably half of all road rages incidents start with someone giving the finger to someone and could have been avoided simply by not doing so.

If you think that giving the finger is a risk free "adult" thing to do, I suggest you keep flipping folks off till one of them proves me right.

 

[The Heretic]

I am not so sure that this lady wasn't out cruising looking for trouble - either consciously or sub-consciously.

I don't think we will ever know. The crazy lady obviously has some kind of disconnect with reality on some level, so getting a truthful answer from her is unlikely.

If it was a singular incident, and she didn't go around flashing a "badge", etc., then I would be more apt to chalk it up to over-reacting, but given her recent past history and her other actions, I would vote for her looking for trouble on purpose.

Personally, I am more prone to wave thanks to someone for letting me change lanes (or even if they didn't and I moved over anyway) than to flip someone off - but I will admit to having done the latter once in a while. But the best policy is to try to get along where possible and not provoke people - if for no other reason than it will look better in court.

The use of a in-vehicle camera is a good idea too. These have helped more than one person prove their innocence.

 

[The Heretic]

FWIW - I think the courts should have her evaluated for mental issues.

 

[IronMonster]

Yeah, I agree. And I feel I have exhausted enough mental energy in this thread. At some level I feel like those with the attitude that flipping someone off is no big deal want to justify continuing to flip people off. Its a self preservation mechanism to justify acting childish. There is no argument that flipping people off is a good thing and a pretty compelling argument that it often leads to violence. I am a little shocked there is such strong opposition to the idea that giving the bird is a immature act of provocation. Anyway I am tired of beating a dead horse, my opinion is not going to get any clearer by continuing to respond to guys who think giving the bird is somehow a god given right to put people in there place with no fear of a reaction from the person your giving it too. Good luck with that. I am going to unwatch the thread and move on

 

[Riot]

That is the face of crazy...would I have shot at her? Probably not...it definitely was getting iffy when she rammed the car with her truck then got out- that definitely would have been a pistol-out-of-the-holster moment...but if I could still get away I would have.

I dunno...what if my kids were in the car? I'm not going blow for blow with a vehicle twice the size of my car more than once. Once it got to that point I probably wouldn't have taken back to the road.

It would have been:
*gun out*
"get on the ground you crazy b*tch!"
*called 911*
If she refused to get on the ground and kept walking towards me, flashing her "Visiting Angles" badge, I would have probably knocked out a few of her teeth with my pistol (striking her with the trigger guard while both hands on the pistol or like below [punching out to the face] if my support hand had cell phone). Realize, however, if you do this you would probably cause the firearm to have a malfunction (probably out of battery).



http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/weapon-strikes-uses-and-application-in-a-fight/

Once that truck put the car in the guard rail, though, I would try to get out of the car. If your vehicle can't move or you make the conscious decision to no longer take the risk of going one-on-one with a vehicle bigger then you, then you probably don't want to stay trapped inside screaming at a cell phone for help.

But that's just me...

 

[The Heretic]

There are better ways to put a person on the ground without punch them, especially in the face, and especially with a firearm.

We were taught (by the OSP) in an "arrest techniques" class to use a basic arm bar with a wrist lock using their fingers. Some of us got to where all we had to do was grab a person's hand with our one hand, and we could take someone down, quite painfully, by using two or three of their fingers. It worked quite well with practice, on a person not trained to counter it - even if they were expecting it. We then transitioned to our knee in their back and putting cuffs on them.

I am not going to put my firearm anywhere near a crazy person where they can grab it, or that it might go off unintentionally.

 

[Riot]

There are better ways to put a person on the ground without punch them, especially in the face, and especially with a firearm.

We were taught (by the OSP) in an "arrest techniques" class to use a basic arm bar with a wrist lock using their fingers. Some of us got to where all we had to do was grab a person's hand with our one hand, and we could take someone down, quite painfully, by using two or three of their fingers. It worked quite well with practice, on a person not trained to counter it - even if they were expecting it. We then transitioned to our knee in their back and putting cuffs on them.

I am not going to put my firearm anywhere near a crazy person where they can grab it, or that it might go off unintentionally.

The above has already assaulted you (rammed your car) and is now coming towards you on foot. They've already displayed hostile intent...a stop kick could also have sufficed, but I'm not going to intentionally wrestle around with someone that just assaulted me.

 

[The Heretic]

The above has already assaulted you (rammed your car) and is now coming towards you on foot. They've already displayed hostile intent...a stop kick could also have sufficed, but I'm not going to intentionally wrestle around with someone that just assaulted me.

I would be more inclined to not wrestle with them either.

But rather than strike someone in that situation, I would take them down.

It isn't a matter of being less forceful, I just avoid putting my firearms within reach of an attacker, and I also don't want to strike them with my hands if I can avoid it. I have more confidence in the takedown because that is what I was trained to do and I know how effective it is. I don't have a lot of experience striking someone with anything, so not only am I not trained to do that, I have no real knowledge of how effective it might be.

I have been struck by others, but I believe that its effectiveness would depend a lot on a number of variables, including how experienced they are with being struck, how experienced they are with countering a strike, and how hyped up they are. When someone is acting that crazy, they might be on drugs for all I know.

With this takedown, I know part of the effectiveness is the pain, but no small part of it is the leverage. Done right, unless the person has martial arts training to counter it, they are going down and staying down as long as you hold them there. At 6'6" and 250# I can hold most people down if they are not a martial artist.

To be clear, this is less wrestling and more putting them on the ground while you remain standing if you wish. It is only when you want to cuff them that you need to put your knee in their back.

 

[Riot]

What takedown are you refering to? My worry would also be doing this on the side of the road- into traffic.

Most takedowns also require both hands...

 

[Koda]

this is what happens when you put a gun in someones face...

might as well give it to them. There is no reason to assume that any attacker doesn't have this ability.

 

[Riot]

It's a jab guys...not a "here's the make and model of my pistol"

Once contact is made you bring it back into your body.

 

[fyrediver]

No, and I have been in a similar situation. While in motion I was too busy keeping from getting hit and it would have been an iffy thing to shoot while driving -- where would the rounds go? However, once I was stopped the pistol would have been cleared from the holster and ready to employ. If then I continued to feel threatened I'd drop her in her tracks.

 

[Koda]

It's a jab guys...not a "here's the make and model of my pistol"

Once contact is made you bring it back into your body.

I guess what concerns me about the idea of using a pistol to punch an attacker is that your not justified to have that pistol out pointing at someone unless your justified to use lethal force.... might as well shoot the attacker because the risk of a takeaway is greater than a successful strike.

 

[Riot]

I guess what concerns me about the idea of using a pistol to punch an attacker is that your not justified to have that pistol out pointing at someone unless your justified to use lethal force.... might as well shoot the attacker because the risk of a takeaway is greater than a successful strike.

True, my thought though would be the safety of my kids during the advancement (walking towards the car after ramming me off the road). We would all be hard-pressed to shoot simply because it's a chick and her size gives her a smaller threat...but I also wouldn't be asking her how her day was, either.