Oregon Have You Helped Somebody Assemble, Modify or Repair Their Firearm?

[Yarome]

BTW, 'wrenching' on a car is completely different from working as an unlicensed & uninsured gunsmith

Exactly! You mixed up your analogy though trying to make your point. Working as an unlicense and uninsured gunsmith would be the same as operating an unlicensed and uninsured mechanics shop. That's acting in a professional capacity without a license.

A car wrencher is not acting in a professional capacity... and doing work on a buddies car would be the equivelant of an amateur gunsmith tinkering on a buddies firearm..... not even in the same realm as your buddy working unlicensed and uninsured in a commercial venture for profit.

If you're gonna act like an FFL taking in business from the public for profit then you dang well better have your FFL and be properly insured to conduct business. And yes, you must comply with the rules and regulations of your trade or face consequences.

He was obviously "acting" as an FFL or the alphabet wouldn't have required him to comply with FFL rules and regulations while conducting a business operation.

Different animals all together.

There is no law that requires a private citizen to maintain any kind of log book and "enter in" a firearm his buddy asked him to take a look and see if he can figure out why he's getting so many FTE's.... even if he keeps it overnight at his house... or a month... or the summer... so long as his buddy's good with him being a lazy a** about it.

 

[billdeserthills]

He was acting as a gunsmith in that he was doing work for money. The guy did beautiful work and had plied his trade under someone else's license for years, before getting kicked to the curb & continued to perform his trade without an FFL for some time before the ATF harassed him enough that he found another FFL to work under

 

[Yarome]

He was acting as a gunsmith in that he was doing work for money. The guy did beautiful work and had plied his trade under someone else's license for years, before getting kicked to the curb & continued to perform his trade without an FFL for some time before the ATF harassed him enough that he found another FFL to work under

That makes perfect sense. Operating a business without a license... or license borrowing. Illegal and a very dangerous practice.

If I chose to help out a buddy, I'm no operating a business. I'm simply lending my limited expertise... and that's what buddies do. I'm not required to have a license and am not subject to the same rules and regulations as an FFL.

The best part is that's it's all perfectly legal and does not preclude me from receiving compensation... if I wanna be a real a**hat kind of buddy.

 

[wired]

Even though a lower receiver is serialized and complete an unlicensed person cannot legally assemble a firearm for someone else for money. That would be manufacturing and that person would need a 07 FFL to do it. I knew a guy in the Dalles who had a 01 FFL and was assembling rifles for others and he got a C&D from the ATF and was audited and had to pay FET on all the guns he had assembled. Yes, Even when building a rifle or pistol with a already serialized receiver the 07 FFL holder must pay FET .

 

[Yarome]

Even though a lower receiver is serialized and complete an unlicensed person cannot legally assemble a firearm for someone else for money. That would be manufacturing and that person would need a 07 FFL to do it.

FIFY

"For money" is not conditional to make it manufacturing. Done free as a favor or a gift carries the same potential penalties.

 

[wired]

FIFY

"For money" is not conditional to make it manufacturing. Done free as a favor or a gift carries the same potential penalties.

True.
Trying to re-up my 02/07 license now. I think I might have my HOA won over. Theyre supposed to be sending a letter in "the next few weeks" .

 

[Yarome]

True.
Trying to re-up my 02/07 license now. I think I might have my HOA won over. Theyre supposed to be sending a letter in "the next few weeks" .

Your Heavy Observation Aircraft?? Hand-Off-Auto switch?? I don't get it..... speak Japanese.

 

[Bullet1128]

From what I understand with anyone making modifications to any firearms or repairs that could result in an injury to the owner or cause damage to the gun itself. Is of the person who is doing the work to not have any certification or not be an experienced gunsmith or any other background in weapon maintenance. Only then is it not only a hell of a lot of room for errors but if for some reason god forbid they misaligned the barrel on let's just say a revolver cylinder just a hair offset on a .44 magnum super Redhawk. Could cause seriously bad injuries to not just the person firing the weapon but some poor bastard in the booth next to you. Being in any amount of space especially at an indoor range puts everyone at any time can be killed or seriously injured by shrapnel from a improperly assembled weapons . this is why even having all my experience with firearms I will always do a quick inspection of every gun I bring with me to the range and I always do the quick second chance glance as I call it in the gunsmiths workbench and since he's a good friend mine he also does a quick alignment and function test just in case I overlook some small details. Always stay humble and never let your pride kill you or worse get someone that you've never even met before pay your DF award winning attitude. Remember that a smart person asks as many questions about something as they can and it's not because he doubts himself or that he doesn't know enough about about a certain subject. A smart person knows how important it is to take advantage of every educational experience possible and since no 2 peoples problem solving process is potential for learning a new more accurate way of getting the answer using a different formula that could uses 3 steps and the method you used took a total 8 steps. Some times getting the correct answer isn't nearly as important as the process of which you used to reach the correct answer. A more relatable example of a way to get the same end result only getting to the same exact results only in a natural and a lot more 2 step 6 shot competition. Our brains are trained t read from the left side of a sentence to the right correct ? So what if we applied that same thought process to our shooting competitions ? I already know that for a fact it's like a whole new person is doing the each thought process and it's an amazing difference from the first round fired to the 6th round you can improve your handling of dropping a empty magazine wil feeding the new magazine now incredibly decrease your target acquisition time just make sure that hit the mag release right as fire the second shot for thats actually insanely more important than using the sights to aim nothing is faster or more accurate than leaning your handgun to the right angle using your pointer finger to line up with the barrel of the gun to get now on point to fire your next 2 rounds but also point and aim also just assisted with making sure that the empty magazine you just released will not only be out of the gun but the new magazine will now latch into place with less effort and force than it does when you insert the mag perfectly up and down position. Also having the same angle to use the slide release and bang bang. Mag drop tilt mag insert slide release shoot !! Now that being said new shooter's actually be able to make the transition from the no pre-planned strategy to double tap, tilt ,mag release, mag insert while rotating your wrist back to perfectly up and down position also while you make sure you hit the slide release , and double tap. A little easier since they've not been using a completely different shooting regimen for years and years. Now it's best to practice this in slow motion another extra trick is to say out loud each step. If possible make at least 2 recordings of yourself when you first get started at the range each day you practice. Then between your last 5 to 3 run throughs of your practice session for multiple reasons this will let you see the improvements you're making and give you something to visually study. practice this at the range every other day for an hour minimum but not more than 2. After a bout a week and a half you should have the at minimum the pattern memorized and showing some signs of improvement. Also with the extra amount of time you'll gain this pattern you should make you more relaxed when you're about to squeeze the trigger make sure that you breathing and as calm as possible. A calm shooter is a more accurate one. Speed is a major plus but not nearly as important as accuracy. Nothing's more disappointing to a shooter who has 18rounds in the gun but was so focused on drawing as quickly as possible from the holster that 18 shots were fired but only 2 rounds hit the target. Just cause you can get your weapon drawn faster doesn't mean you're going to win. Shooting is just like everything else in life there's no substitute for hard work and self discipline to make sure that they give the commitment needed to go from a screaming little fruit bat that flinched up with both hands holding a 1911 style .22 with a 5" barrel with their bodies as stiff as an ironing board but a rubber wrist. To being able to fire a 6 shot .44 magnum with a 1" barrel with one hand accurately.

 

[wired]

Your Heavy Observation Aircraft?? Hand-Off-Auto switch?? I don't get it..... speak Japanese.

I get to blame my wife. She had to have neighbors around. City girl.

 

[Yarome]

I get to blame my wife. She had to have neighbors around. City girl.

Ahhh! Hand-Off-Auto. Yeah... city girls can be like that sometimes.... but you were the one that decided to married her!


Seriously though... so you have to get HOA approval for... some kind of zoning to conduct a home business?? Do they have to sign off for the city or something?

(I'm not familiar with how HOA's operate)

 

[wired]

Ahhh! Hand-Off-Auto. Yeah... city girls can be like that sometimes.... but you were the one that decided to married her!


Seriously though... so you have to get HOA approval for... some kind of zoning to conduct a home business?? Do they have to sign off for the city or something?

Yeah, they need a sign off from the HOA to process a county business license and the ATF needs a business license to process the FFL application.

I have no intention of buying and selling guns but I do want to build and rebuild integral silencers and occasional AK build. No way in hell the HOA would sign off on that so I told them I need the home business license to do contract engineering work.

 

[PiratePast40]

I am thinking more along the lines of helping people get their 80% projects to function correctly. I am also thinking about spending some money on a decent jig set up for AR lowers and would like to loan it out to others in need.

The only restriction that I'm aware of with regards 80% lowers involves manufacturing. You can't do the manufacturing phase for someone, but build parties were quite common at one time. People would bring their jigs, routers, drills and tools to share their equipment and expertise. Unless you're trying to commit a crime, helping someone put a lower together isn't illegal. That being said, if you went to court, an overzealous prosecutor could charge you for anything he wanted to. Telling someone how to insert a bolt catch pin could be a charge if the prosecutor wanted to harass someone.

 

[The_Crazys]

Exactly! You mixed up your analogy though trying to make your point. Working as an unlicense and uninsured gunsmith would be the same as operating an unlicensed and uninsured mechanics shop. That's acting in a professional capacity without a license.

A car wrencher is not acting in a professional capacity... and doing work on a buddies car would be the equivelant of an amateur gunsmith tinkering on a buddies firearm..... not even in the same realm as your buddy working unlicensed and uninsured in a commercial venture for profit.

If you're gonna act like an FFL taking in business from the public for profit then you dang well better have your FFL and be properly insured to conduct business. And yes, you must comply with the rules and regulations of your trade or face consequences.

He was obviously "acting" as an FFL or the alphabet wouldn't have required him to comply with FFL rules and regulations while conducting a business operation.

Different animals all together.

There is no law that requires a private citizen to maintain any kind of log book and "enter in" a firearm his buddy asked him to take a look and see if he can figure out why he's getting so many FTE's.... even if he keeps it overnight at his house... or a month... or the summer... so long as his buddy's good with him being a lazy a** about it.

He was acting as a gunsmith in that he was doing work for money. The guy did beautiful work and had plied his trade under someone else's license for years, before getting kicked to the curb & continued to perform his trade without an FFL for some time before the ATF harassed him enough that he found another FFL to work under

Gentlemen, please, he was Undocumented.

 

[billdeserthills]

Gentlemen, please, he was Undocumented.

Not at all, he was a white guy

 

[titsonritz]

Yes