Would you have fired?

[Koda]

I think I see what your saying and thats a good point. It shows how dynamic a situation can be to go from lethal vehicular assault then to being personally confronted by the attacker that turns out to be unarmed and smaller size than you.

This is a difficult situation because 1st that smaller person did use lethal force and is continuing to attack you. 2) there is no reason to assume such an attack is unarmed, or that a smaller person doesn't have the physical ability to cause you some serious harm. Crazy lady had the ability, opportunity and did put them in jeopardy.
But then in my opinion, when I watched the video once I saw the crazy lady out of the vehicle her actions no longer indicated a lethal attack. But that's me, not the two gals in the car who might have much less disparity of force against crazy lady. The situation is dynamic and different for everyone.

 

[pchewn]

Guns don't cause shootings and fingers don't cause road-rage.

 

[Riot]

I think I see what your saying and thats a good point. It shows how dynamic a situation can be to go from lethal vehicular assault then to being personally confronted by the attacker that turns out to be unarmed and smaller size than you.

This is a difficult situation because 1st that smaller person did use lethal force and is continuing to attack you. 2) there is no reason to assume such an attack is unarmed, or that a smaller person doesn't have the physical ability to cause you some serious harm. Crazy lady had the ability, opportunity and did put them in jeopardy.
But then in my opinion, when I watched the video once I saw the crazy lady out of the vehicle her actions no longer indicated a lethal attack. But that's me, not the two gals in the car who might have much less disparity of force against crazy lady. The situation is dynamic and different for everyone.

Don't get me wrong, if it was just me in the car I would have driven 10mph on the freeway in circles before letting batsh*t there get me cornered...and even if she would have had me cornered I probably could have grabbed all 100lbs of her and sat on her until CHP arrived without ever even needing a gun...this chick has at least two people in the car with her (one holding the phone to record, one calling cops then her driving) so she has more than just herself to worry about.

Still dicey...do you play roulette with a truck on the freeway or do you tussel with crazy eyes until the police decide you're worth a patrol car being dispatched to?

Another note- I bet me wrestling around with her (or drawing down on her) on the shoulder is going to make me look the badguy...hence why I'd just be driving around until the tank was empty (off-ramp to on-ramp then on-ramp to off-ramp). Those cellphone videos really do make things interesting in court...

 

[Riot]

Guns don't cause shootings and fingers don't cause road-rage.

Absolutely agree with you...but I'll be honest, when I'm driving with my wife and kids in the car, there's no finger waving, screaming or erratic driving...I can't afford it...the cost (my family) is too high of a price to pay.

But that coin goes from "I would never start a road-rage incident" to "I will kill anyone that threatens my family" as fast as I can draw.

To add, I also will avoid as much confrontation as I can with you...if that means turning I-80 into a 3-ring circus then so be it...my family in the car turns the tables a bit, though...then, there's only so much latitude I'm giving you.

 

[mjbskwim]

Grow the F up!

I don't even want to hear the opinion of the asshat who thinks
"the finger" is an incitement to violence.

If you really believe that, GO AWAY. Go find a forum for asshats.

Meanwhile the GROWNUPS here will discuss why in the video shown, that though t the girls in question certainly had a LEGAL right to shoot, they didn't have a MORAL right to shoot.

Just because the law ALLOWS you to do something , doesn't mean you SHOULD do it..

WHOA there cowboy!
Maybe YOU take your attitude to the next forum and let us stable adults have a talk

 

[RoneKiln]

The girls here may have been able to make better choices, but that does not make them responsible for a crazy person assaulting them with a deadly weapon. Cars are very deadly. You only have to change my angle of direction a tiny amount at the right moment to cause very serious injury to me, my passengers, and the vehicle I rely on to get to work and support myself and loved ones.

Like some have voiced here, I was taught to "never hit a lady." I have also had a woman assault me with a knife. I know many women that also carry handguns. I am fully aware that women are just as deadly as men. I believe "never hit a lady" has context. It's against domestic violence. It does not apply to some crazy lady assaulting me with a deadly weapon.

Yes, flipping someone off is rude. It does not in any way justify assaulting someone with a deadly weapon. That is a level of escalation that tells me I had better deal with this as though it is very dangerous. Coming at me with a car is just as dangerous as coming at me with a gun or knife. Assault me with a deadly weapon and I will respond as though you are assaulting me with a deadly weapon. That 100 pound lady can be just as dangerous as a 250 pound man that is solid muscle and covered with scars and tattoos, and I will deal with her the same way.

I know a lot of nice 250 pound muscled guys with scars and tattoos, but I bet if we swapped crazy lady out with a scary looking man that looks like he was just released from prison, many of the people here playing down the danger those girls were in would speak very differently.

 

[RoneKiln]

Some of the arguments about "my truck is bigger so I wouldn't think I was threatened" sound like "I wear a bullet proof vest so I wouldn't feel threatened by a gun pointed at me."

Put the best body armor on me and threaten me with a tiny Saturday night special, and I will still react as though you are threatening my life. Cause you are. I expect most here would as well.

Come at me with a car, and the size of my car does not change that you are threatening me with a car. I will still respond accordingly.

 

[usagi]

when crazy got out of the car, it would have been pepper spray time.

 

[mkwerx]

Been in similar situations to this video - once while unarmed, twice armed. No shots fired in either scenario - but the gun certainly made the outcome more positive for me in both situations.

In the first encounter - which happened when I was 20 and before I bought my first pistol, a drunk lady pulling out of a liquor store parking space almost backed into my car - driven by my (ex)wife with me in the passenger seat and my step daughter in the back seat. Wife honked. CRAZY drunk lady then proceeded for the next five minutes to try ramming us off the road, swerving into us, racing up on our rear, or flying past on the shoulder, cutting in front of us and slamming on the brakes. This was before cell phones were widespread. We sped as fast as possible to the closest police station in hopes of finding a cop about. Drunk chick sped off when she realized where we were headed. Cop said he'd pay her a visit - we did get her plate number - but that was the end of it. Report made, end of story.

Second encounter about a year or so later. Guy driving around two lanes of traffic on the shoulder almost side swipes my car. This time I was driving, (ex)wife in passenger seat, and kiddo in the back. Crazy dude forced his way in front of us, then proceeds to back up with speed. Evasive manuevers are almost impossible because of traffic and distance. Luckily he stopped about a foot short of hitting us, but he sped forward and attempted his maneuver again, aiming for us as I tried getting out of the way. The second time he did this - I pulled the pistol from the glove box and set it on the dash in case I needed it (again, I was 21 - if the same thing happened today, the gun never would've left my hand and it would've instead been aiming at the bastard) - he saw the gun and had an "Oh, S***" moment. He forced his way through traffic as we merged onto the freeway and cut across three lanes to get away from us. We circled back toward the PD (this happened in Beaverton a block from the police station) and flagged down the first cop we saw and made a report.

Third encounter with crazy road rager was while working. Guy tried passing me on the right, shortly after a two lane road merged down to one. He almost hit a brick mail box in the process so he stopped, and I drove past. I'm in a 17,000lb flatbed truck. He was in a jacked up F250. I didn't honk or do anything to provoke this yokel, except to occupy the same roadway as him. He lets me get past, then shoots around me in the oncoming lane, then immediately hooks in front of me and stops cross ways in the road. He jumps out of his truck screaming and ranting and shoves his hand in his pocket - I draw my pistol and level it at him through the door - trying to keep it out of his sight until I confirm a weapon in his hand. After a few moments of him screaming (I can't be sure of exactly what he said, I was intently focused on his hands and what was or was not in them) he stopped mid sentence, got a scared look on his face and ran back to his truck and left. I pulled off the main road after that onto a side street to calm my nerves and let my heart rate settle. That was the closest I've ever come to dropping the hammer on someone.

No insult or hand gesture is ever enough to warrant a physical assault- and some folks don't get that time has changed this. Going "toe to toe" with someone because you got flipped off or someone said a bad word to you is likely not going to end well. Victim blaming is bullcrap. That's essentially the same as saying a rape victim had it coming because she wore "provacative clothing" or flirted with someone. Crazy is crazy - and crazy doesn't respond in a rational manner. Hot heads don't respond rationally either. Just because you say something or make a hand gesture, or use your car's factory equipped warning device to get a point across doesn't mean you give up your right to defend yourself if some lunatic decides his or her panties are bunched up and makes you the target of their aggression.

In the video, as played, I can't see firing while the vehicles are both in motion, or with other vehicles around. Once stopped - and the truck was speeding at me and appeared to be ramming? Might shoot. The second the crazy broad jumps out of the truck and starts charging - I would assume she has a weapon and would more likely punch the gas pedal than pull a trigger - I have not seen a pistol bullet yet that has the same effect as a rapidly accelerating car hitting a pedestrian. Let the crazy chick bounce off the hood and roll over the windshield. When deadly force is appropriate - it doesn't matter what instrument is used, only that the force used match the threat level.

 

[The Heretic]

There are two things I strongly believe in:

1) Freedom of speech - that includes not responding with violence just because you don't like what was said. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

2) Proportionate response to any given action. Physical violence because of a simple communication (verbal, hand gesture, whatever) is a disproportionate and inappropriate response - and such would be considered an assault in a court of law.

Those who can't control themselves in such situations have mental problems and pose a danger to others.

 

[Norm0931]

And therein lies some of the flexibility in our legal system. She used her car to stop them, that's why she was charged 2 counts of assault with a deadly weapon - she already posed a threat to the life of these girls, and since that threat was present and imminent, I very seriously doubt that pulling a gun would get you in trouble. Add to that that she came to the window - did she have a gun? What about another weapon? The law says you have to believe your life is in danger. I think enough evidence is present here that at least presenting a gun in your own defense would be justified.

I agree it's your responsibility to de-escalate the situation. I think the fact that these girls tried to get away and got the cops on the phone was evidence they were attempting to do just that - but psycho lady wouldn't let them go. Yes it was foolish of them to goad her on in the beginning by flipping her off, but that does not justify the very, very dangerous steps the crazy lady took.

I have to disagree with you. The police charged her with assault with a deadly weapon - that alone would be plenty of justification to defend yourself - perhaps not with deadly force, but I really can't see someone being charged with brandishing for taking steps to defend themselves by presenting their gun.

I was in a situation very similar to this many years ago - I still don't know why the guy did it to me - we had no prior interaction, I didn't flip him off. He pulled up behind me as I was stopped at a red light, that's the first I had ever seen him. We got onto a highway where he started tailgating me - I stayed in the right lane so he could go around. Suddenly he sped past me and slammed on the brakes. I got around him, then h caught up and he came up along side of me and forced me off the road. All I had on me was a tire iron. He got out of his car and I took off again. I had no cell phone to call for help (I didn't own one yet). I tried to direct myself toward the Clackamas County Sheriff's dept., but he eventually broke off and left - maybe because he could see where I was going. I can only assume he maybe thought I was someone else? He had no reason to be mad at me. Just another crazy. And another reason I went out and got my CHL so I could have something to defend myself if and when needed.

Exactly Etrain. There is a ton of case law to back up a car being used as a deadly weapon. That's why she got charged. When they called the cops, then she swerved to stop them from proceeding (which skirts the definition of "detainment" and "arrest") you would be justified. Furthermore, when she hit their vehicle, you are clearly within your right. I don't know if California has a duty to retreat, but Oregon doesn't. Once she hit your vehicle it opens you up to possibly a crash on a highway at high speed, which is definitely a threat to your life or serious bodily injury. You are well within your right to defend yourself.

 

[Riot]

Assault me with a deadly weapon and I will respond as though you are assaulting me with a deadly weapon. That 100 pound lady can be just as dangerous as a 250 pound man that is solid muscle and covered with scars and tattoos, and I will deal with her the same way.

 

[Member 5605]

Have we forgotten:

Vehicle is a means to escape when right pedal is slammed down and run the SOB over.

 

[soberups]

I saw nothing in the video that would have justified firing a shot. An unarmed person on foot poses no threat to someone in a car that still has the ability to back up and drive away.

As a professional driver (UPS) with 28 years of accident and ticket-free driving, one rule I follow religiously is to refuse to participate in road rage. No fingers, no honking, no tailgating. My only responsibility is to operate my vehicle in a safe manner, and I cant do that if I am actively participating in another person's insanity.

 

[Gunguy45]

I'm all about problem avoidance.
I don't give the finger and encourage others not to do it either.

But let's be clear, getting the bird is not a legitimate act of "aggression." Not in any state or locality, legally speaking.

Nor should it EVER be used as an "excuse" for violence.

Try explaining to a judge how your assault on an innocent victim was "justified" because they called you a bad name or made a rude gesture. Good luck with that, you're going to be convicted of assault. PERIOD. And your "assaulter" will not even be cited.

We should all be avoiding conflict, especially while armed. That means no birds, no shaken fists, no shouted words. Keep it to yourself.

My previous comment was directed at someone who said (essentially) they took "the bird" as an invitation to violence. It is NOT. It's an expression of pissed offedness. Get over it, that's all it is. I've been flipped that gesture more times than I even remember. I seem to have lived over 50 years without assaulting the person who made the gesture.

Apologies to anyone who took offense at my previous comment. I should have pasted the comment I was objecting to.

Specifically:

Maybe the little girl twits will think twice next time before they flip somebody off if they can't back it up. Sometimes there are unexpected consequences.
WAYNO.

 

[Riot]

I saw nothing in the video that would have justified firing a shot. An unarmed person on foot poses no threat to someone in a car that still has the ability to back up and drive away.

As a professional driver (UPS) with 28 years of accident and ticket-free driving, one rule I follow religiously is to refuse to participate in road rage. No fingers, no honking, no tailgating. My only responsibility is to operate my vehicle in a safe manner, and I cant do that if I am actively participating in another person's insanity.

Even the part where at the end he smashes out the window? Also, what the video doesn't show is that after the window is busted out, the driver is pulled out of his car and beaten and slashed with a knife...

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...er-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585

Still think the driver shouldn't have shot?

*edit*

He also had his wife and daughter in the car...

This topic was discussed HERE

 

[U201491]

Terrifying California road rage incident captured on cellphone camera

SACRAMENTO, Calif. – A Northern California woman made her first court appearance Tuesday after a road rage incident was captured in a dramatic cellphone video that showed a vehicle forcing a car off a mountain highway.
Two women frantically called the California Highway Patrol on Saturday afternoon to report that they were being repeatedly cut off by the driver of a Ford Explorer Sport Trac pickup truck on Interstate 80, about 60 miles northeast of Sacramento.
"She just hit our car, she just hit our car. She's pushing us off of the road. Yes, she's pushing us off the road. She's coming for us," passenger Delanie Strykul tells a CHP dispatcher on the video, her voice shaking. "Please help us."
The video shows the Explorer forcing their Mazda onto the shoulder as the Mazda's driver screams.
"I could not believe this was real. I was sitting there going, 'This has to be a joke,'" Strykul told The Associated Press on Tuesday.



WARNING: VIDEO CONTAINS GRAPHIC LANGUAGE

The Highway Patrol said the incident began after Strykul made a rude gesture because the Ford Explorer had been tailgating.
Strykul shot the video while also calling the Highway Patrol. They eventually were directed to an interstate exit where a highway patrolman was waiting to make the arrest.
The suspect, Deirdre Orozco, 50, of Santa Clara, was charged with two counts of assault with a deadly weapon, two counts of false imprisonment, unlawful use of a badge, reckless driving and resisting arrest.
She was held in lieu of $250,000 bail and was due back in court Friday after pleading not guilty to multiple charges from two incidents days apart. A public defender was to be appointed to represent her.
Roseville police said Orozco also had been arrested three days earlier but was freed while prosecutors weighed charges from that incident. Police say a woman identified as Orozco first hit a driver at a Roseville intersection, then continued on to a relative's house. There she threw large rocks through a window while threatening the residents, said police spokeswoman Dee Dee Gunther.
Orozco is charged in that incident with assault with a deadly weapon, criminal threats, vandalism, reckless driving, and hit-and-run.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/2...d-rage-incident-captured-on-cellphone-camera/

Yep that was the post I wanted to see What a crazy Beotch. !!!!
Those women did the right thing. Had that Beotch had a weapon, yes she would be laying
in a blood pool for sure, but as they could get to help safely they did right.
I saw a couple other options they could have taken. especially when she angeled them and stopped and then jumped out and came between them and her truck but that's another story <LOL>

 

[jbett98]

This happened in Woodburn, OR a couple of years ago.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...VkkNrNQkL2uJZkp17bmjj6w&bvm=bv.83640239,d.aWw

 

[Koda]

Even the part where at the end he smashes out the window? Also, what the video doesn't show is that after the window is busted out, the driver is pulled out of his car and beaten and slashed with a knife...

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...er-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585

Still think the driver shouldn't have shot?

*edit*

He also had his wife and daughter in the car...

This topic was discussed HERE

I think soberups was talking about the OP's video not the bike gang video.... but id ask to really know.

 

[soberups]

I think soberups was talking about the OP's video not the bike gang video.... but id ask to really know.

Correct. I was talking about the video with the crazy lady who was trying to run the 2 girls off the road and then walked up to their car showing fake police ID. In that case there was no window being broken or weapon being used. If I cant move my car and someone busts my window out trying to get to me, that is a whole different situation.