What's the better bump in the night gun? Long gun or Pistol???

[boogerhook]

I have looked at them - I like the idea, but I'm still not sure if I like it for my situation. One of my issues with it is that the barrel is still open - no protection for the top of if - and while I would expect my daughter to stay away from it, I don't want to have any chance that she could get near the barrel end of a loaded gun - and I would only want it in the room if it were loaded. My other issue is that it doesn't look super secure - I'd be willing to bet a good sharp pull by someone with a little strength could almost bust the gun out of that thing. I've thought about adding a small gun safe to the room at some point, but that's not something that's high on the list at the moment. 2 handguns in the room is pretty good for me at this point. The shotgun may come later.

It's solid construction, hard to pry, and 3 heavy duty bolts go into a 2x4 behind your drywall. Everything can be broken, but this one would take some effort. Not sure I would want my shotty to be stored with a round chambered, although there is a "be quiet" component (and a +1 round consideration). I guess if you mounted the gun high enough, so that the barrel is just under the ceiling, there is little chance someone could get in front of the muzzle.

 

[CHLChris]

I keep my rifle in cruiser condition...loaded mag, empty chamber. It is only as secure as your attachment to the wall. Do not use Sheetrock screws! I attached a 16" wide piece of solid wood shelf stock to studs, then used heavy screws into the wood.

 

[Boboclown]

not sure that a 9mm penetrates less than a soft tip 223 ... I believe the opposite is true, the 223s start tumbling the moment they hit something.

.223 doesn't tumble, but 9mm tends to still penetrate more than the .223.

 

[boogerhook]

.223 doesn't tumble, but 9mm tends to still penetrate more than the .223.

So is it the 556 that tumbles? Something tumbles ;-) maybe a specialty round ...

 

[Boboclown]

So is it the 556 that tumbles? Something tumbles ;-) maybe a specialty round ...

Well, if the twist rate is a bit too slow it'll tumble, but other than that no.

 

[bbbass]

Didn't the early military .223/5.56 rounds tumble because of the way the steel penetrator was weighted within the bullet? Something about a long narrow bullet with an off balance center of gravity that caused it to tumble when it hit something. And weren't those rounds replaced because the powers that be demanded something less lethal? Like the FMJ 9mm ball of today? IDK.

 

[CHLChris]

The last few posts have a bit of bunk. 5.56, above 3000 ft/s, meaning 55gr, will almost always tumble in flesh. I've heard that is because the lead core is heavier in the rear. And if it tumbles/yaws it will most often come apart. This causes a lot of stopping energy.

The steel cores (62gr M855) don't go fast enough out of carbines to reliably yaw, and have been known to just poke a 22-caliber hole and leave the threat upright.

For self defense in 223/556 I refer either 55gr ball going as fast as possible or 75gr hollowpoint that will expand and sometimes break apart. Federal/Lake City M193 is high quality 55gr 556. I prefer Hornady TAP 75gr HPBT for my HD rifle.

In walls, all of these 223/556 loads have been shown to stop in a wall or two, whereas 9mm and other pistol loads tend to stop in a house or two (exaggeration alert). 7.62x39mm...now THAT will go through a house or two!

 

[bbbass]

Yah, I use high frangible 9mm self defense loads... wait that's the lv room gun (the doorway gun is a .357... watchout neighborhood!), the nightstand has a Judge. Anyway, no target loads in the gun for me!!

Good to know about the other ammo. I was wondering what to use other than varmint loads when I get my shorty finished. Thx!

 

[No_Regerts]

Well, not if it's in the charger next to the weapon. Its' little flashy-legs are impeded by the charger tube. Otherwise this makes a lot of sense if your house is occupied by lunatics, a.k.a. all children or most women.

I have a Sig STL-900 rail-mounted light. it's adequate for in-house use but terrible for duty use because
1.) only one holster will fit it and I don't like that brand/style (Safariland level III)
2.) bumping the side of the light turns on the laser, and then the battery runs out.
3.) Having the light on the gun might show your adversary where your gun is, and therefore where you probably are, too, even if it weren't for 1 and 2. If you run it right, the light can be tossed for misdirection or just whacking somebody on the bridge of the nose, which is good for some light-hearted moments.

Having a weapon light doesn't keep you from having a handheld light as well. Without a weapon light, when you do your misdirecting toss, you've now made yourself blind. As far as a weapon light telegraphing your gun location, a 300 to 600 lumen light in a dark room makes it impossible for a perp to see anything. They are heavily disorienting. You can FBI carry your handheld, but its not always practical.

Ive had to call a bunch of bad guys out of dark rooms at gunpoint and having a spare hand comes in handy.

 

[Boboclown]

Good to know about the other ammo. I was wondering what to use other than varmint loads

Friends don't let friends use varmint rounds for defense. But really, soft points are good. I keep a .45 with hollow points nearby along with the AR. Depends on which side of the bed I get out of.

 

[bbbass]

Only soft points I can find nearby are varmint boolitts.

 

[bbbass]

Having a weapon light doesn't keep you from having a handheld light as well. Without a weapon light, when you do your misdirecting toss, you've now made yourself blind. As far as a weapon light telegraphing your gun location, a 300 to 600 lumen light in a dark room makes it impossible for a perp to see anything. They are heavily disorienting. You can FBI carry your handheld, but its not always practical.

Ive had to call a bunch of bad guys out of dark rooms at gunpoint and having a spare hand comes in handy.

I don't really have a choice with the Judge in the nightstand. But when I had my SR9c in there, I used both. However, I'm not really looking to manhandle bad guys.

 

[No_Regerts]

I don't really have a choice with the Judge in the nightstand. But when I had my SR9c in there, I used both. However, I'm not really looking to manhandle bad guys.

Maybe dialing 911 with the off hand?

 

[bbbass]

Maybe dialing 911 with the off hand?

I rarely sleep alone, but on rare occasion yeah that would be good. For those sorry fellows that do sleep alone too!

 

[CHLChris]

Only soft points I can find nearby are varmint boolitts.

Varmint bullets these days are generally polymer tipped, not tipped with soft lead. Are you sure you are understanding "soft point"?

 

[Ura-Ki]

Did some ammo testing as real world as possible and the results were not what I expected! I have a lot of clear land with a mountain as a back stop, and I replicated the walls of my home I was building at the time. I installed pipes and conduit to replicate as closely as possible the actual construction you would normally find! I also marked the layer of sheet rock showing the exact placement of pipes and studs so that I could see the results of a glancing strike or a full on hit! On the outside of the wall I placed three more sheets of sheet rock 6 feet apart to show any additional penetration and a sheet of paper after that to catch any that made it that far! 9 mm ball penetrated clean through several layers of sheet rock and was still deadly on the other side. if it hit a 2x4 solid or a pipe it would stop or deflect to a point that made it some what less deadly! Much the same with .40 SW and .45 ball. .556 m193 was the surprise in this testing, it would penetrate many layers of sheet rock un hindered, but would tumble after the first layer and key hole two to three layers. how ever, when it struck something solid it stopped inside or bounced off. It would penetrate a full wall if it didn't strike a 2x4 or pipe, but all bullets were found about 15 feet the other side on the ground. 62 grain frangible bullets did much the same as green tips unless they hit solid. no bullets were recovered! solid hits on the 2x4 left a nice hole but no bullet. Through wall shots showed no break up at all! Hollow points performed the same from 62 grain and up, I.E. they kept going even after a solid hit! The 55 gr Hornady virminators were a surprise, they all stopped just after the outside wall. I tested all the 12 and 20 gauge shot gun rounds and found that all but bird shot went clean through the wall and were still truckin long after. at point blank range, even the shot wad penetrated a layer of sheet rock!!! Buck and slugs would stop inside a 2x4 if hit square, but other wise even a glancing strike would still keep going clean through and would certainly kill on the other side! I also tested several hollow point pistol loads and with the exception of COR BON all were still capable of killing on the other side of the wall! Some of the TAP ammo would stop and some would not. Fed Hydro shocks would penetrate clean but would fall on the ground on the outside! Hornady critical defense did much the same. I am planning to test several more cal and types of ammo to see what does what! I will also set up my crono and see if I can get readings on the far side and that should tell the tail once and for all what is still capable of killing after passing through!

 

[CHLChris]

Wow, expensive testing! You really ought to start a separate thread with this info! It's too good to be hidden on the 4th page of this thread.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Wow, expensive testing! You really ought to start a separate thread with this info! It's too good to be hidden on the 4th page of this thread.

i'm retired do it was not a big deal! I plan to do videos of this testing so I can show my findings!

 

[bbbass]

Varmint bullets these days are generally polymer tipped, not tipped with soft lead. Are you sure you are understanding "soft point"?

I think so. Let me check. Ok, soft and pointed like my head!

I think you are full of it.
Both Speer and Sierra make soft point varmint bullets in .223. http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=11

Are you sure you understand what constitutes a varmint bullet?

 

[Boboclown]

Just order ammo online, you can find plenty of soft points above 55 gr in .223. If you're gonna use an AR that's what I'd do.