what's the best ammo to use in an HD 12 gauge?

[jjackffrost]

I know this is a little off the question I think it needs to be said for you who have never fired a gun to save you life its not like you see on tv.
All ways shoot to stop the person. Shooting to kill makes you look like a right wing gun nut that wanted to kill someone. We train to stop an intruder that has made me feared for my and my family's life. Two in the chest one in the head.

If you live in Portland and Multnomah County and you shoot someone who is not armed in your house and he/she/it (it is Portland after all) and they die you are going to go to prison unless you have lots of money to fight it. (No more guns for you)
And do not forget the civil suit their family will bring In Portland the burglar's family always wins it's not like you see on TV. You will be bankrupt and doing time. Even if you win in criminal court they still win the civil suit.
If you shoot someone in your house you tell the cop when he gets there that you feared for your and your family's life you make sure that is on the record of the cop that first gets there and remember you where trying to stop them not kill them
Not violence not he was going to hurt you, not he was stealing your stuff not you had a shiny new shotgun and you wanted to try it out on a live target. You feared for you and your family's life. If you have exotic ammo the DA will say you where a right wing gun nut that wanted to kill someone and make it stick.
Every bullet you fire at someone has at least two lawyers attached to it

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Agreed a lot of the aftermath is location, location, location. My first concern is survival

 

[Ian1816]

I know this is a little off the question I think it needs to be said for you who have never fired a gun to save you life its not like you see on tv.
All ways shoot to stop the person. Shooting to kill makes you look like a right wing gun nut that wanted to kill someone. We train to stop an intruder that has made me feared for my and my family's life. Two in the chest one in the head.

If you live in Portland and Multnomah County and you shoot someone who is not armed in your house and he/she/it (it is Portland after all) and they die you are going to go to prison unless you have lots of money to fight it. (No more guns for you)
And do not forget the civil suit their family will bring In Portland the burglar's family always wins it's not like you see on TV. You will be bankrupt and doing time. Even if you win in criminal court they still win the civil suit.
If you shoot someone in your house you tell the cop when he gets there that you feared for your and your family's life you make sure that is on the record of the cop that first gets there and remember you where trying to stop them not kill them
Not violence not he was going to hurt you, not he was stealing your stuff not you had a shiny new shotgun and you wanted to try it out on a live target. You feared for you and your family's life. If you have exotic ammo the DA will say you where a right wing gun nut that wanted to kill someone and make it stick.
Every bullet you fire at someone has at least two lawyers attached to it

If you shoot someone in your house you should not say a single word to the police without your lawyer present.

 

[Ian1816]

The question of what type of 12 gauge shell can't be answered without knowing the specifics of the living situation. If you live by yourself on a 50 acre farm then by all means load up with slugs or 00 buck shot. But if you are living in a multi-family dwelling such as a condo or an apartment using a slug in a self defense situation would be very ill advised as the round would over penetrate and possibly kill innocent bystanders (ie your neighbors).

 

[Ian1816]

IMHO "tactical" lights are a bad joke, and a good target

That must be why police and military use them world wide right? A responsible act of self defense requires you to properly identify your target and one of the best ways to do that in a dark house in the middle of the night it with a tac light. That being said it also requires an extra level of commitment to train in no/low light situations with your HD weapon.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Again, LED night lights, well placed are an important accessory. I get mine at Lowes. My tac lights are backups

I even have solar powered LED lights on my deck and around the backyard

 

[oknow]

No, it does not.

your right it does not work the same as buckshot, it won't go into your neighbors house or apartment.
just like in a handgun shooting you have to account fore every round down range and if they are all contained in your house all the better.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

your right it does not work the same as buckshot, it won't go into your neighbors house or apartment.
just like in a handgun shooting you have to account fore every round down range and if they are all contained in your house all the better.

Reality check, it will easily pass two sheetrock panels with power left over

 

[revjen45]

We live in a semi-rural area, so my HD/SD considerations are not the same as someone who lives in an apartment. Obviously YMMV. Since killing my neighbors from over penetration of a wall (or of the invading Orc) isn't likely my fusil de boudoir contains 1 rd of 3" mag #000 followed by 7 rds of #00 with 12 in each one. If more is required for some reason, Plan B is a 7.62X39 carbine with 30 rds. We sleep on the 2nd floor with one stairway leading up, so I would be shooting down to repel boarders.
"bird shot! don't matter what people say, hit someone with that and im pretty sure they arent going to be coming back for more." Former Vice President Dick Cheney shot an 83 year old man in a ND shooting with bird shot, causing no harm that would have incapicitated a meth head who is so jacked up he doesn't even know he has been shot.
I have no desire to shoot anybody, even the vilest of dirtbags, but if the situation is dire enough that I have to shoot I want to put the threat on the trailer most rikki-tik.

 

[tacticalgunner]

That must be why police and military use them world wide right? A responsible act of self defense requires you to properly identify your target and one of the best ways to do that in a dark house in the middle of the night it with a tac light. That being said it also requires an extra level of commitment to train in no/low light situations with your HD weapon.

I agree with its your responsible act to identify. Most LE and esp. military both don't really like the idea of a fixed light, or at least those I have worked with and talked with. It provides the bad guys with a target, and most of the bad guys know where the light is, and where your head is in contrast to the light. The strobe effect was/is the best part. Flashing LED lights at a billion candle power messes with most folks minds, but it also provides the man/woman behind the weapon with fault depth perceptions and other issues. The handy part is it keeps your off hand ready to pull your secondary weapon.
So tactically speaking, thats why they have the grip switch, short burst of light to see your path and then off until your unable to register your surroundings. I would recommend if your going to be effective and be at your best, drill yourself in your home, "slice the pie" around corners, know your blind spots in your home, tactically move around your home with an unloaded weapon, know your home better than the bad guy, know where to retreat to, know where you can "move a person" to your advantage.
I use bird shot to be on topic btw, i have small children and 9 rounds in my 590....

 

[Blitzkrieg]

We live in a semi-rural area, so my HD/SD considerations are not the same as someone who lives in an apartment. Obviously YMMV. Since killing my neighbors from over penetration of a wall (or of the invading Orc) isn't likely my fusil de boudoir contains 1 rd of 3" mag #000 followed by 7 rds of #00 with 12 in each one. If more is required for some reason, Plan B is a 7.62X39 carbine with 30 rds. We sleep on the 2nd floor with one stairway leading up, so I would be shooting down to repel boarders.
"bird shot! don't matter what people say, hit someone with that and im pretty sure they arent going to be coming back for more." Former Vice President Dick Cheney shot an 83 year old man in a ND shooting with bird shot, causing no harm that would have incapicitated a meth head who is so jacked up he doesn't even know he has been shot.
I have no desire to shoot anybody, even the vilest of dirtbags, but if the situation is dire enough that I have to shoot I want to put the threat on the trailer most rikki-tik.

If they invade my home I want them down or so badly hit they stagger outside. After that I do care what happens to them. Soon a home invasion is not an issue since I'm about to build an ICF castle. Few home invaders have modern battering rams or dynamite

 

[oknow]

Reality check, it will easily pass two sheetrock panels with power left over

and how much sheetrock will a slug or buckshot go through? 4 5 even 6 sheets with power left over.

<broken link removed> click video library then put in search box slug birdshot

 

[drew]

If they invade my home I want them down or so badly hit they stagger outside. After that I do care what happens to them. Soon a home invasion is not an issue since I'm about to build an ICF castle. Few home invaders have modern battering rams or dynamite

Forcing them to use siege techniques to gain entry? I kind of like that strategy unless your castle draws too much attention.

 

[oknow]

We live in a semi-rural area, so my HD/SD considerations are not the same as someone who lives in an apartment. Obviously YMMV. Since killing my neighbors from over penetration of a wall (or of the invading Orc) isn't likely my fusil de boudoir contains 1 rd of 3" mag #000 followed by 7 rds of #00 with 12 in each one. If more is required for some reason, Plan B is a 7.62X39 carbine with 30 rds. We sleep on the 2nd floor with one stairway leading up, so I would be shooting down to repel boarders.
"bird shot! don't matter what people say, hit someone with that and im pretty sure they arent going to be coming back for more." Former Vice President Dick Cheney shot an 83 year old man in a ND shooting with bird shot, causing no harm that would have incapicitated a meth head who is so jacked up he doesn't even know he has been shot.
I have no desire to shoot anybody, even the vilest of dirtbags, but if the situation is dire enough that I have to shoot I want to put the threat on the trailer most rikki-tik.

from what distance???? otherwise you could say that getting shot by a slug at 800 yds is no big deal

 

[mjbskwim]

I know this is a little off the question I think it needs to be said for you who have never fired a gun to save you life its not like you see on tv.
All ways shoot to stop the person. Shooting to kill makes you look like a right wing gun nut that wanted to kill someone. We train to stop an intruder that has made me feared for my and my family's life. Two in the chest one in the head.

If you live in Portland and Multnomah County and you shoot someone who is not armed in your house and he/she/it (it is Portland after all) and they die you are going to go to prison unless you have lots of money to fight it. (No more guns for you)
And do not forget the civil suit their family will bring In Portland the burglar's family always wins it's not like you see on TV. You will be bankrupt and doing time. Even if you win in criminal court they still win the civil suit.
If you shoot someone in your house you tell the cop when he gets there that you feared for your and your family's life you make sure that is on the record of the cop that first gets there and remember you where trying to stop them not kill them
Not violence not he was going to hurt you, not he was stealing your stuff not you had a shiny new shotgun and you wanted to try it out on a live target. You feared for you and your family's life. If you have exotic ammo the DA will say you where a right wing gun nut that wanted to kill someone and make it stick.
Every bullet you fire at someone has at least two lawyers attached to it

First thing
Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

Next thing
Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

I've said this before in these threads for guys like you to think about.
How many things are in your house,between the front door and your bedroom that you don't want to get hit with?
Count them out
Tennis raquet,the kid's bat,fire poker,TV?,books,frying pan,KNIVES in the kitchen?

Remember how many "weapons",or things that could be used as weapons, there are in your home,that aren't firearms.

Oh yeah, did you frisk the guy when he entered the house to see if he was carrying weapons? Maybe interview him to see what level of crazy he was?
Do you know his history of violence? Training? (not all vets or martial arts students are good guys)

ANYONE who enters your house uninvited is most definitely a threat to your life. If your lawyer can't figure that one out you need a new lawyer
As for the family suiting you?
Suit them back.

And remember
Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

I used to preach that bird shot will stop an intruder. And for the most part I believe a few will. Problem is,it may not stop them properly.

My friend came up to hunt. We went out for grouse and whatever. Coyotes stopped to look at us and he shot it with 20ga bird shot (I know WTF was he thinking?) Dog rolled over in the brush and then ran away
This was at less than 10 yards,full side hit.

So I wouldn't rely on bird shot any more.

 

[mjbskwim]

As far as over penetration goes,don't shoot unless you know you can hit the perp.
Don't use a gun unless you are familiar with it enough to hit some thing at inside the house ranges.

The other thing there is,have you alarms or dogs working good enough that you can be ready and waiting. Waking up to an intruder won't be much fun no matter how much training you have.
Having the upper hand will make things go much smoother

 

[coop44]

That must be why police and military use them world wide right? A responsible act of self defense requires you to properly identify your target and one of the best ways to do that in a dark house in the middle of the night it with a tac light. That being said it also requires an extra level of commitment to train in no/low light situations with your HD weapon.

Just a bit dumber and I could have been in law enforcement too. Most of the time they are going up against the drug addled, or the mentally incompetent who are untrained and poorly armed. (BTW how is an idiot with a screwdriver, pocket knife, or some other non fire arm a threat to several "trained" cops? How when they decide to execute him out of dozens of rounds do they only hit a few times?) A "gang" of guys with flashlights and assault weapons bursting into a home, they count on overwhelming numbers, the lights are not a problem, their night vision is screwed anyway. I, on the other hand, believe the dark is my friend. Getting up from bed in the dark, my night vision is excellent, the intruder not so much because the lighting around my home would have screwed up his night vision. He will never hear anything, no safety being clicked off, no racking of a slide, my job is not to forewarn anyone, it is to kill anyone who enters my area of responsibility. Again anyone who enters such (my AO) with a flashlight is a target, I will not afford them the same advantage.Yes I am trained, to a far greater degree than any law enforcement.

To answer the OP again, any 12gauge round will be effective at close range. If you want an effective 12 gauge round with lower recoil, try cutting a target load just below the wad with a razor blade leaving enough to hold it together in 3 places.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

This is how birdshot typically performs (sorry but shooting jugs of water or comparing hole sizes of slugs vs. birdshot in GWB is NOT a true measurement of performance against a human adversary). This kid would be straight up dead had he been hit with buck shot in the same manner.

MOST INSPIRATIONAL STORY EVER! - YouTube

If the perception of over-penetration is that major of a concern than use an AR.

Should be required viewing. Thought provoking in many ways.

 

[Silver Hand]

I think the scariest sound a thief can hear is the sound of a pump shotgun being loaded that sound will make all but the craziest thief runaway and that is the best outcome you can have in a brake in

I think it better if he never hears any sound. Voice commands otherwise would be in order.
Silver Hand

 

[oknow]

This is how birdshot typically performs (sorry but shooting jugs of water or comparing hole sizes of slugs vs. birdshot in GWB is NOT a true measurement of performance against a human adversary). This kid would be straight up dead had he been hit with buck shot in the same manner.

MOST INSPIRATIONAL STORY EVER! - YouTube

If the perception of over-penetration is that major of a concern than use an AR.

the kids story is straight up bs the birdshot would not have spread that much in 10 ft.