Charges against Alec Baldwin could be refiled as forensic report shows trigger on gun used in ‘Rust’ shooting had to be pulled

[ilikegunspdx]

Ther mishandling and disrespect of guns finally caught up with them. David halls the assistant director who took the gun from armored, declared it a "cold gun", and handed it to Baldwin was fired from a movie in 2019 due to multiple unintended discharges of firearms.

The coke lady brought the bandoliers and dummy rounds from a previous movie. Both those were found by he prosecution to have live rounds. So it may be just chance that it didn't happen in that earlier movie. Had Baldwin and others had safety measures in place they may have caught it before an accident. But several people left the set of rust due to safety concerns. People didn't even have time to put in earplugs the set was so rushed reportedly.

People also said the prop truck was unattended at all times and peopel took guns from there for target shooting and put them back. Gee, how could a mishap possibly happen?

 

[lucusloc]

Ther mishandling and disrespect of guns finally caught up with them. David halls the assistant director who took the gun from armored, declared it a "cold gun", and handed it to Baldwin was fired from a movie in 2019 due to multiple unintended discharges of firearms.

The coke lady brought the bandoliers and dummy rounds from a previous movie. Both those were found by he prosecution to have live rounds. So it may be just chance that it didn't happen in that earlier movie. Had Baldwin and others had safety measures in place they may have caught it before an accident. But several people left the set of rust due to safety concerns. People didn't even have time to put in earplugs the set was so rushed reportedly.

People also said the prop truck was unattended at all times and peopel took guns from there for target shooting and put them back. Gee, how could a mishap possibly happen?

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Yep, the entire management of the Rust set was criminally negligent. They ran an environment where a likely fatal accident was basically inevitable. Worse, they knew (or should have known) that such an accident was going to happen and changed nothing.

This goes right back to what I was saying before; I do not care who pulled the trigger, Baldwin still needs to hang for this as the top dog in charge of the production. He hired the dangerously incompetent people, he failed to take corrective action with prior safety failures, and he actively ignored and buried concerns from more qualified individuals. Who actually pulled the trigger is basically irrelevant, it could have been anyone, for any reason including a called-for action sequence.

Hell, with the incompetence on display here I would believe the claim that the gun was checked and that everyone did believe it was safe because "the rounds came from the box of blanks." I doubt half the people who did setup and management of those props could tell the difference between a live round and a blank 100% of the time.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Hell, with the incompetence on display here I would believe the claim that the gun was checked and that everyone did believe it was safe because "the rounds came from the box of blanks." I doubt half the people who did setup and management of those props could tell the difference between a live round and a blank 100% of the time.

100% agree with all. Plus peopel on the set we're taking the same prop guns out and target shooting with them. They probably had the same lack of respect for guns and who knows of they even knew how to unload them and not mix ammo when they put the guns back. "Put those guns back and let's do another line of coke"...

 

[wired]

I have not seen the images but another factor to consider is if the primers have a sealant on them. Lots of factory rounds have visible sealant, whereas very few hand loads do. I would be curious if this is another tip-off they used.

very few 45 colt rounds have sealant

 

[IndyPrepper]

I just really want to see what facts the prosecution has. I'm especially interested in the reports that crew members used the gun for plinking. All of the sources I could find on that piece of the puzzle go back to Oct 2021. For example the Ney York Post article says:

"The prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on a New Mexico movie set had been used that morning by crew members to shoot cans for fun, a report said Tuesday.

Just hours before the fatal accident, a group of crew members had taken the firearm to go "plinking," a hobby in which people shoot at beer cans with live ammunition, amid production of the Alec Baldwin flick "Rust" in Santa Fe, an insider told the Wrap.

Production sources had previously revealed that the gun had been used for off-the-clock target practice — which could explain how a live round ended up in its chamber, TMZ reported.

One source on set claimed that when authorities arrived following the deadly shooting Thursday, they found live ammo and blank rounds stored in the same area that had been the site of the target practice.

Authorities have not confirmed the claims." NY Post

I want details. The authorities have not confirmed anything about plinking. When did they shoot?..I mean exactly. Did they shoot on set or off. Where? How was the gun returned to the truck. and when. Was it checked that morning, that afternoon, during lunch etc. What crew members were shooting? What were their statements to police? Were they interviewed?

I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just want to know the facts. The article before says "just hours before the fatal accident"..yet just hours before the fatal accident a number of crew members angrily walked off set, were fired, and replaced by non union crew. Sounds like some motive there.

I said in an earlier post that this sounds very fishy to me. Granted I watch a lot of true crime, but seems to me a pissed off crew member could have planted those rounds, with the intent of causing another accidental discharge..to 'make a point'. There were live rounds found not just in the box of ammo, but also in the bandolier and gun belt. And from what I understand, the only rounds that were approved to be fired were dummy rounds that made an audible, tangible sound due to bb's being inside. I don't get how an entire chain of people could overlook a live round unless a)..the gun was checked before lunch and found to contain dummy rounds but b) one or more of the dummy rounds was replaced intentionally with a live round prior to the shooting..intentionally.

As far as Baldwin goes, I think he's personally a hot tempered d-bag..but I don't believe he'll be held liable for the homicide. He may however have liability in a civil trial due to his position as a producer.

What a very very strange case.

 

[Flopsweat]

...
The coke lady brought the bandoliers and dummy rounds from a previous movie. Both those were found by he prosecution to have live rounds.
...

That's unforgivably irresponsible.

 

[lucusloc]

That's unforgivably irresponsible.

That is a funny way to spell "fatally". The whole set was a SNAFU, and Baldwin is the head screwup.

 

[Spitpatch]

I took @lucusloc 's primer observation to be a note ONLY that primers (overall) were mis-matched, indicating very most probably handloaded at different times. (With whatever primers were on hand: cheapest for movie work).

Silver or Gold colored primers are both present even occasionally within one brand of factory ammunition.

 

[Spitpatch]

Also, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but live ammunition is frequently on set and part of a production. Filming of bullet impacts (buildings, vehicles, ground) is easiest done with bullets (in movie set environments where it is safe). The "firecracker under wood putty" and other such techniques are saved for sequences including people in close proximity.

It very often is the armorer ("Gun Wrangler") or part of his crew that does that "firing for effect", or in these cases, "firing for special effect".

 

[Provincial]

Armorer found guilty.

Prosecution seems to be setting up Baldwin, too.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-armorer-convicted-involuntary-manslaughter

 

[Flopsweat]

Armorer found guilty.

Prosecution seems to be setting up Baldwin, too.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-armorer-convicted-involuntary-manslaughter

She allowed a loaded gun to get past her, but he pulled the trigger. They both caused her death, but he's the one who killed her.

 

[wired]

She allowed a loaded gun to get past her, but he pulled the trigger. They both caused her death, but he's the one who killed her.

True but normally an actor in that sort of situation would at least have a reasonable expectation that the gun handed to him would that had been cleared by the armorer to be safe to handle on set would be safe to handle on set. In this case though if ANYTHING can be shown that he had any instructions to the armorer to disregard safety rules or that Baldwin knew she was less than competent its on him as the producer.

If this had been a no name actor who had been handed a live gun and had shot someone on set I cant imagine for a second there would be any outrage. The armorer would be the one ultimately responsible.

 

[Flopsweat]

True but normally an actor in that sort of situation would at least have a reasonable expectation that the gun handed to him would that had been cleared by the armorer to be safe to handle on set would be safe to handle on set. In this case though if ANYTHING can be shown that he had any instructions to the armorer to disregard safety rules or that Baldwin knew she was less than competent its on him as the producer.

If this had been a no name actor who had been handed a live gun and had shot someone on set I cant imagine for a second there would be any outrage. The armorer would be the one ultimately responsible.

It seems that all of that can be proven. Several employees left the set citing safety concerns. Some voiced those concerns prior to leaving. He's had firearm safety training. He absolutely knew better and given the chaos and sloppy safety practices on that set, he shouldn't have taken anyone's word that a gun was "cold".

 

[Flopsweat]

True but normally an actor in that sort of situation would at least have a reasonable expectation that the gun handed to him would that had been cleared by the armorer to be safe to handle on set would be safe to handle on set. In this case though if ANYTHING can be shown that he had any instructions to the armorer to disregard safety rules or that Baldwin knew she was less than competent its on him as the producer.

If this had been a no name actor who had been handed a live gun and had shot someone on set I cant imagine for a second there would be any outrage. The armorer would be the one ultimately responsible.

It would still be his fault and the armorer's fault.

 

[wired]

It would still be his fault and the armorer's fault.

Fault implies responsibility. If I go to a tire store and they they knowingly install faulty tires on my car and Im tooling down the road and my tire blows out and I cross the center line and kill someone is it my fault? No. I might have killed someone but it was not my fault. Tire store guy might go to jail if it can be proven he knowingly installed faulty tires.

 

[Flopsweat]

Fault implies responsibility. If I go to a tire store and they they knowingly install faulty tires on my car and Im tooling down the road and my tire blows out and I cross the center line and kill someone is it my fault? No. I might have killed someone but it was not my fault. Tire store guy might go to jail if it can be proven he knowingly installed faulty tires.

Totally different situation.

 

[wired]

Totally different situation.

No , Ive killed someone. I am not at fault though. When an actor is handed a firearm by an armorer, the person responsible for clearing that firearm, it is the armorer that is responsible for that firearm UNLESS the party in charge of the production has given instruction to the armorer to ignore safety laws or has shown a pattern of negligence, which may be the case here.

 

[Flopsweat]

No , Ive killed someone. I am not at fault though. When an actor is handed a firearm by an armorer, the person responsible for clearing that firearm, it is the armorer that is responsible for that firearm UNLESS the party in charge of the production has given instruction to the armorer to ignore safety laws or has shown a pattern of negligence, which may be the case here.

Still the shooter's fault.

 

[wired]

Still the shooter's fault.

Again, fault implies responsibility. No movies would ever get made with guns if the actors had to be concerned with pulling the trigger and having anything happen but a pop sound coming out. Thats what aremorers are for. They are the responsible party when it comes to firearms on set. Not the actor.

 

[Flopsweat]

Again, fault implies responsibility. No movies would ever get made with guns if the actors had to be concerned with pulling the trigger and having anything happen but a pop sound coming out. Thats what aremorers are for. They are the responsible party when it comes to firearms on set. Not the actor.

They don't have to use real guns.