What do CCW holders do when they are pulled over?

[Partsproduction]

I read your posts in this thread to Zoroaster. This was his reaction

Can't read huh? Seems he has an excuse. Police who want to disarm law abiding citizens don't have that excuse. What part of "Keep and bear arms" and "Shall not be infringed" is beyond their mental capabilities? I know some police, good people, but some here keep describing police that don't deserve the title.

You're a Vet hmm? I read that around firebases they would string lots of concertina wire around the perimeter and attach tin cans at places, with rocks in them. The VC sappers would look for the weakest place and try to sneak in at night. When anyone heard the can rattle they would call for a flare.
The second amendment is the can, the right to keep and bear arms is the first freedom they will try to defraud us of. The weakest place.
If our police, who have taken an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, are the ones trying to sneak under the wire, we are in big trouble!

 

[clearconscience]

Last time I checked you get to keep your right to bear arms by not acting stupid or resistive towards to LEOs.
I'm not trying to attack your objective, just your means of attaining it.
The more you push the more they want to take your rights. The last thing you want to do is give them/anyone a reason to think your one of those people that can't be trusted with a firearm by showing lack of respect for authority/law/order and general safety for those fighting daily to keep our streets from being over run by evil people.

 

[Mark-60]

I don't do anything that I wouldn't do if I didn't have a CHL. I've never had an issue and never been given any problems.

Also, a LEDS check on the veh plate will show if the RO has a CHL. I'm not an LEO I just know stuff.

-Mark.

 

[clearconscience]

The best way to prevent issues, I've practived for the last several years.....Don't drive stupid=Don't get pulled over

 

[clearconscience]

My dad recently got pulled over in the middle of the night (2am) in Bend driving around he apparently was swerving, probably falling asleep, and the LEO came up to his window when he looked up his Plate he saw my dad had a CHL and asked if he had a gun, my dad did and they had him get out of the car, asked for his gun, my dad gave it to them, they gave him a sobriety test, called an ambulance to test my dad's blood sugar cause he has diabetes, and found he was not drunk and his blood sugar was low. They called him a taxi and made him take the taxi home and what a surprise after all that they gave him his gun back before the taxi came.

No problems, because he was up front and was respectful.

 

[Partsproduction]

they want to take your rights

You said it. It's right there.

Police are an arm of government. If they infringe on the rights of the law abiding because they feel somehow offended then I'd say they aren't very professional. If I'm breaking a law that's different.

I'm really willing to expound on this point folks, if there is no law then not obeying a non existent law cannot be legal grounds for denying your right to keep and bear arms.

Any argument against what I just said is an argument against the Constitution.

 

[RVNvet]

Can't read huh? Seems he has an excuse. Police who want to disarm law abiding citizens don't have that excuse. What part of "Keep and bear arms" and "Shall not be infringed" is beyond their mental capabilities? I know some police, good people, but some here keep describing police that don't deserve the title.

You're a Vet hmm? I read that around firebases they would string lots of concertina wire around the perimeter and attach tin cans at places, with rocks in them. The VC sappers would look for the weakest place and try to sneak in at night. When anyone heard the can rattle they would call for a flare.
The second amendment is the can, the right to keep and bear arms is the first freedom they will try to defraud us of. The weakest place.
If our police, who have taken an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, are the ones trying to sneak under the wire, we are in big trouble!

True about the concertina wire/cans/rocks. But some 'chu hoi' (converted) sappers demonstrated how they could get through the 'canned' wire in minutes without making a sound. They just gave a false sense of security, in my opinion. My only experience with sappers was one night at Pleiku, and we didn't know they were there until the explosions went off on the airfield, inside the perimeter.

What makes you think LEOs are against CCWs? They aren't, for the most part. In fact, merely the fact that you have one tells them that you have at least passed a criminal background check...a point in your favor. It also indicates that you are 'right wing,' which is another, in most cases.

Zorro's 'comment' has to do with your lack of consideration of LEOs, and your willingness to irritate or alarm LEOs for no reason other than your own pigheadedness. When I was a LEO, it was always a (thankfully) rare occasion when someone who had done nothing wrong, and had nothing to hide, acted negatively. Me thinks that if you really are posting your true feelings (rather than baiting the forum for controversy, as I previously suggested), you've run afoul of the law a number of times, or maybe had a bad experience or two with 'bad' cops. Which maybe you brought on yourself with your attitude??

Again, we all have the right to do anything we wish as long as (a) we don't violate the rights of someone else, and (b) we're willing to pay the consequences. So if you're willing to accept negative reactions from cops you've annoyed/startled/alarmed/etc., go right ahead; just don't cry about the way you are perceived or treated.

One suggestion...why don't you try going ride-along with your local police some night? It might give you a very different perspective.

Max

 

[NK777]

Last year was a crazy year for me. I was pulled over at least 4 times and I haven't been pulled over before last year in more then a decade. I recieved no tickets only warnings. Of course on 3 of those occassions I was wrongfully pulled over and I believe the police officers knew it after talking with me.

3 times I informed them I had a permit and was carrying.

1st time... LEO didn't seem to care.
2nd time... Again didn't seem to care. (Said I was speeding and I argued that I wasn't and asked to see his RADAR which he didn't show me.)
3rd time... Was kind of stressful. (Pulled over for expired tags) Was carrying my 1911 SOB close to where my wallet was. Kept my hands on the wheel and explained to him that I had a CHL and was carrying. He asked me where it was and I told him "SOB close to my wallet and thats the reason I hadn't gotten him my ID yet." He said "okay, you can reach for it now." I'm thinking to myself... damn that was a poor choice of words! I slowly pulled my wallet out and gave him everything he needed to include my CHL.
4th time... I didn't tell him and he didn't ask.

I have never had a bad experience with the police nor have I ever been disarmed by them. I would be upset if they disarmed me though. I don't see how that makes anybody safer sorry and I have every right to carry even in the presents of a police officer.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Some years ago I had just arrived back in the states from being out of country. While I was gone I had my buddy hold on to my gun (Smith and Wesson Stainless .44 magnum). He picked me up at the airport and drove me back home. It was about 2:00 am btw. At the south end of Bend we get pulled over. We both put our hands on the steering wheel and dash board. When the officer came to the door he looked in and asked, "Is this a joke?" We replied that it wasn't a joke and informed him that we were CHL holders and the gun is located in the center console. He asked if it was loaded, (It was), and he instructed my buddy to slowly hand it to him. When he received it, he unloaded it and said, "Man, that's a nice gun!" We handed him our ID/CHL and he did his thing. As he handed the gun back, he took one more look at it and said, "That's a nice really gun". He let us go without any incident. I was under the impression that he was drunk checking due to the time of night.

 

[Partsproduction]

What makes you think LEOs are against CCWs? They aren't, for the most part

Agreed, and as I mentioned I'm friends with two police whom I respect very much. And really, that's the key here. I've been stopped many times without incidence and I don't have any problem with police in my personal experience except once.

A rookie pulled me over for tail lights out and since I was at my shop/residence I pulled into the driveway, but not all the way in. He informed me that he stopped me for my tail lights and I handed over my papers, and told him we were in my driveway. (Didn't have a CHL back then, nor any guns at all)
He was taking a long time to process the call so I got in my pickup and started it up and drove forward 15 feet into my parking spot. I admit that was stupid, I should have told him I was going to do it. Anyway, he came unglued! Well, I was obviously in my own shops parking lot, there was no way out if I were a crook trying to escape, and the way I did it any normal person would have known instantly what I was doing. It was a boredom move, something I'd have to do later anyway so I was saving the time. I told him I was just parking the car and that crisis went away.

At this time I'm still trying to talk with him like he's a human being, getting "boreder" every second, so I saunter to the side of his cruiser to shoot the breeze, and he barks for me to get in front of his car where he can see me in his headlights.

Now I'm the one who comes unglued! The implications to this scene are that he has a violent criminal who is probably trying to sneak up and spray him with my submachine gun. All the while there is another trooper across the street parked watching the whole thing.
I started screaming at the guy, "you think I'm a gangster or something, I'm in my own parking lot of my own business and somehow in your mind you have a serial killer!" And man I was upset, and when I think about that I still get upset about it. We live in a very small town, the guy should have known me, we had been to the same pilot association meetings before (I didn't know he was State Police) and he should have recognized me. But even if I'd been a total stranger he should have handled it differently.

I talked with another state policeman later about it, I wanted to run a complaint. He said the guy went by the book.

Anyway, believe me, you had to be there.

The last time I saw him he had left the police, and I have never understood why he acted the way he did, but I suspect that he was afraid he was going to get shot that night. I've been stopped several times since then and haven't ever had any problems. I've met rude police before and since but we all have our days. Most police act like they are just doing a job, and treat folks with respect.

Zorro's 'comment' has to do with your lack of consideration of LEOs, and your willingness to irritate or alarm LEOs for no reason other than your own pigheadedness.

No pigheadedness. When the law says I have to tell them I will, no problem there. If an officer asks if I have a weapon I will tell him, no problem.

But I deeply resent the printed sheet that came with my CHL years ago that said to hold my hands on the wheel and tell them I'm armed, and have a permit. I really resent the dishonesty of that, since there is no such law. At the time I didn't know there was no such law, but since I've found out about it I've been on a crusade about it.

Now I'm being told by folks in this forum that basically "no, it's not a law, but you will pay the price if you don't do it". Now that really infuriates me!
I'm told that if I don't do it I will find myself face down in the gravel with a gun at my head! How on earth do we fight that kind of attitude?

If people are that afraid they should get another job, maybe an office job.

 

[RVNvet]

Agreed, and as I mentioned I'm friends with two police whom I respect very much.

(snip)​

At this time I'm still trying to talk with him like he's a human being, getting "boreder" every second, so I saunter to the side of his cruiser to shoot the breeze, and he barks for me to get in front of his car where he can see me in his headlights.

(snip)​

But even if I'd been a total stranger he should have handled it differently.

(snip)​

I've met rude police before and since but we all have our days. Most police act like they are just doing a job, and treat folks with respect.

(snip)​

No pigheadedness. When the law says I have to tell them I will, no problem there. If an officer asks if I have a weapon I will tell him, no problem.

But I deeply resent the printed sheet that came with my CHL years ago that said to hold my hands on the wheel and tell them I'm armed, and have a permit. I really resent the dishonesty of that, since there is no such law. At the time I didn't know there was no such law, but since I've found out about it I've been on a crusade about it.

Now I'm being told by folks in this forum that basically "no, it's not a law, but you will pay the price if you don't do it". Now that really infuriates me!
I'm told that if I don't do it I will find myself face down in the gravel with a gun at my head! How on earth do we fight that kind of attitude?

First, would you please do me (us) a favor? Since you have two police buddies, ask them about this issue, and post what they have to say.

It sounds as though the rookie overreacted, but I suspect that he was more concerned about the trooper watching him than being shot. The other trooper may well have been his coach. One of the first things a cop is taught is, "Take command of the situation." I had my own bad experience with a rude, overly aggressive woman trooper, and I was a LEO at the time, which didn't impress her one bit! In another case, I was driving a vehicle similar to one that had just been radioed out as being involved in a robbery, and those officers were VERY AGGRESSIVE when they approached me, especially when one saw the speed loader on my console before I could tell them I was a LEO.

Keep in mind that many cops don't know the specific laws regarding CCLs. Some might think that you are required to alert them to the fact that you are carrying concealed (as is the case in some jurisdictions), and become alarmed if they see the weapon, or signs of it. And, NO, they don't always run your plate when stopping you...either because of laziness, or they are stopping you for a warning, or to alert you to something regarding your vehicle.

In a nutshell, my attitude towards the issue is that (a) it's a courteous thing to do, (b) it makes a cop's job easier, (c) it will make his/her attitude towards me better, (d) it will forestall any misunderstanding if he/she see my weapon, or signs of it (jacket bulging, or the like).

C'mon now, isn't life difficult enough without making it more so? And it's nice to be nice.

Max

 

[Partsproduction]

I'm really not trying to be difficult, it's a legal point, just like the legal point that made me get pulled over for speeding is a legal point. I've been cut some slack by police for being 5 to 8 MPH over, and I've been treated like crap for it too. Like I said, maybe the guy was having a bad day. BTW, since I got my CHL I haven't been pulled over, I'm scared of what the police will do/say and watch my speedometer like a hawk. I have to stand on principle on this telling them thing though. If they ask, I tell, if not, there's no good reason to.

(a) it's a courteous thing to do, (b) it makes a cop's job easier, (c) it will make his/her attitude towards me better, (d) it will forestall any misunderstanding if he/she see my weapon, or signs of it (jacket bulging, or the like).

(a) And why is it a courteous thing to do? Am I a danger to him? If I'm a black belt in karate should I tell him that? I don't understand why anyone would consider it discourteous. Honestly. Think about this in other ways, if there is a crowbar behind the seat should I tell him? My point here is that the gun has nothing to do with him!
(b) How does it make his job easier? Are you saying he should be afraid of me and take steps to defend himself? This is near the heart of the whole thing really, isn't it? If I'm a decent human being who has no history of aggressiveness (As the CHL indicates.) what difference can it possibly make?
Add to that what the rookie in Yuma told me, that he disarms people if they are legally carrying, there is no way I'm saying anything. That is infringement of the second amendment, plain and simple.
(c) Only if he gets his nose bent out of shape without cause. If he does then we all have a problem with that trooper or cop.
(d) He ain't gonna see mine!
Being discourteous would be not saying hello, I say hello. I like police, they are what lies between my family and chaos.

 

[clearconscience]

It seems we always argue about this, but the reality is were all fighting for the same thing. And the job of LEOs is to make sure we aren't breaking the law. If you carry correctly and aren't breaking the law then you should never have to deal with this issue in the first place. But the LEOs have every right to take your gun, check your ID, Check to see if you have your CHL, etc.
If you are then you should have no problem. Even if your a jerk and you are doing everything right, then they have no right to keep your gun, etc.

If a cop pulls me over and I'm carrying I will always tell them, and if they ask I will always give them my gun to hold....Not keep. If they don't give it back we got a problem. But I will never be rude to someone trying to do their job. Especially when that job is protecting my family and myself.

I was watching the TV show COPS the other day and this guy got pulled over for a traffic violation. He told the cop when he came up he had a gun and he has a permit. The cop asked him to step out of the car, he did, and the cop saw a bottle of prescription pills. He asked what they were for and the guy told him they were for a friend. The guy was a bottle of Oxycotin in a prescription bottle that had someone else's name on it, and the guy had been charged with carrying a concealed weapon without carrying his permit 3 times. He was a arrested for having prescription drugs illegally and they took his gun. The cops were talking about how the guy would probably lose his CHL for good. I would agree that's a good idea.

 

[KENOC]

It seems we always argue about this, but the reality is were all fighting for the same thing. And the job of LEOs is to make sure we aren't breaking the law. If you carry correctly and aren't breaking the law then you should never have to deal with this issue in the first place. But the LEOs have every right to take your gun, check your ID, Check to see if you have your CHL, etc.
If you are then you should have no problem. Even if your a jerk and you are doing everything right, then they have no right to keep your gun, etc.

If a cop pulls me over and I'm carrying I will always tell them, and if they ask I will always give them my gun to hold....Not keep. If they don't give it back we got a problem. But I will never be rude to someone trying to do their job. Especially when that job is protecting my family and myself.

I was watching the TV show COPS the other day and this guy got pulled over for a traffic violation. He told the cop when he came up he had a gun and he has a permit. The cop asked him to step out of the car, he did, and the cop saw a bottle of prescription pills. He asked what they were for and the guy told him they were for a friend. The guy was a bottle of Oxycotin in a prescription bottle that had someone else's name on it, and the guy had been charged with carrying a concealed weapon without carrying his permit 3 times. He was a arrested for having prescription drugs illegally and they took his gun. The cops were talking about how the guy would probably lose his CHL for good. I would agree that's a good idea.

No frakking way will i 'hand' my gun to a cop. Ever. Sorry, I do not trust any LEO that much. Once he sees me going for the gun or gun in my hand, too easy for him to get nervous and decide to blow me away. Or maybe he is a jerk and has always wanted to shoot someone. Any cop that lets someone 'hand' them his gun is a complete idiot anyways. If he wants my gun, i will offer to get out of the car, hands on my head and he can disarm me. Then if i get shot he at least has a bit of explaining to do. And yes, i respect LEO's, just not stupid ones who ask me to 'hand' them my gun. No way, they can be stupid, i choose not to be.

 

[clearconscience]

No frakking way will i 'hand' my gun to a cop. Ever. Sorry, I do not trust any LEO that much. Once he sees me going for the gun or gun in my hand, too easy for him to get nervous and decide to blow me away. Or maybe he is a jerk and has always wanted to shoot someone. Any cop that lets someone 'hand' them his gun is a complete idiot anyways. If he wants my gun, i will offer to get out of the car, hands on my head and he can disarm me. Then if i get shot he at least has a bit of explaining to do. And yes, i respect LEO's, just not stupid ones who ask me to 'hand' them my gun. No way, they can be stupid, i choose not to be.

Well I certainly wasn't referring to whipping out my firearm and handing it to them. F naw!!!
I would tell them where it's at and keep my hands reaching for clouds. I love cops, but I hate getting shot. And no I've never been shot. I heard it sucks.

 

[Will]

I bet this thread can go on forever and I hope it does. Much to learn from the expereinces. I've had my CPL in WA for almost 20 years. Ive always handed my CPL with my drivers license when I have been pulled over. Often asked if I was armed at the time, always was and told the officer where my firearm was. In every encounter the next words from the officer was thank you for telling me. Often followed by please keep your hands on the steering wheel while I run your information. Once I was asked to surrender my firearm, the officer cleared the firearm and set it on the roof of my car while he can my information. After he gave the pistol back to me with the mag back in place and handed me the round in the chamber. He thanked me for telling him and reminding me that my pistol was not in condition one. Over the years I've been pulled over a few times each year for speeding and should have gotten a ticket. I got one ticket and it was well deserved. I think honesty goes a long way from the moment the officer comes to your car window. They will cut you a LOT of slack for this.

MHO, it works for me, I have nothing to hide and why not let the officer know up front I am armed and have the license to carry? I might not have to let him know but what does it hurt to tell him? Puts him at ease and from my expereince gets me out of the ticket.

 

[clearconscience]

You know what erks me most about people who get some defensive about this stuff, that really isn't an issue.
Those of you that are disrespectful/rude to LEOs that are just trying to keep themselves safe, is that you make the LEOs think all CHL holders are like you.

It's no different than the guy that shoots up his work place after getting fired, it's just more ammo for those that want to take away your rights.

I will be the last one to give up my rights to own and carry firearms, but I will show LEOs the utmost respect and courtesy. Because I wouldn't be able to do their job.

 

[RVNvet]

According the the most recent FBI report on the subject that I could find, between 1994 and 2003 the second highest type of incident in which officers have been feloniously killed on the job (intentionally, not by accidents) is traffic stops. The only higher category of felonious deaths is during arrests. <broken link removed> . Cops know this all too well.

Let's say I'm a cop stopping a vehicle on which I've run a plate and have the computer come back with the info that the RO is a CHL holder. When I approach the vehicle, if the driver turns out to be the RO, and doesn't tell me he is carrying, I'm going to get nervous. Why didn't he say anything, especially since I know that the information given out with the permit suggests doing so? What is he hiding? If I ask the driver if he is carrying (and I certainly would), and he says yes, my next question will be, "Where is it?" then, "Why didn't you tell me when I came up to you?" If his/her response is, "Because there is no law that say's that I have to," I'm going to get really pi**ed off! That will make for a bad day for me, and most likely the driver.

Scene two...I see a guy drive by with his license plate hanging loose/signal light out/something hanging out his trunk/etc., so pull him over to alert him. I don't run his plate, so don't know he's a CHL holder. He gets out to look at the plate (or whatever), and I see the gun, or a bulge where it's concealed (especially in summer...and unless you carry up your rectum, it's not too likely you can be sure it won't show in some manner). Then I'm really going to get alarmed, and the driver is going to get posted against the car or on the ground in nothing flat!

I think we all know CHL holders who, though they could pass the background check, should not be carrying anything more deadly than a whiffle ball. And many criminals and dangerous people who can, carry. So, again, if I approach the vehicle, I don't know who I'm confronting...and if he doesn't tell me he's carrying, and I know he has a CHL, I'm not going to think, "Gee, he has a CHL so he must be a good guy!"

BTW...Way back when I was a LEO, CHLs were very rare, and I never saw one. The only people I ever confronted who were packing concealed were a threat, and sometimes very dangerous. (Also, we didn't have to call every maggot on the street 'Sir'...that really racks my 'nads when I see it on a reality LEO show!)

Max

 

[cwegga]

BTW...Way back when I was a LEO, CHLs were very rare, and I never saw one. The only people I ever confronted who were packing concealed were a threat, and sometimes very dangerous. (Also, we didn't have to call every maggot on the street 'Sir'...that really racks my 'nads when I see it on a reality LEO show!)

Max

There's no more reason to tell an officer that you are carrying than there is for an officer to call every person they run into sir...:huh: Come on, I'll use your argument. "It's just being polite/respectful, you should do it."

 

[NK777]

RVNvet

Yes I agree it is always best to inform them and the best way to do that is to present your CHL with your drivers license.

The LEO will ask if you are carrying, where the gun is, and generally tell you not to touch it. This has always been the end of it for me. I've never had an officer ask to see it or otherwise attempt to disarm me. Like I said it's always been a pleasent experience for me. I personally really appreciate the exchange of personal respect back and forth.

It concerns me that people have been disarmed simply because they have a CHL. That would really bother me.

I think we all know CHL holders who, though they could pass the background check, should not be carrying anything more deadly than a whiffle ball. And many criminals and dangerous people who can, carry. So, again, if I approach the vehicle, I don't know who I'm confronting...and if he doesn't tell me he's carrying, and I know he has a CHL, I'm not going to think, "Gee, he has a CHL so he must be a good guy!"

I disagree, I don't know anyone with a CHL that should not have anything more dangerous then a wiffle ball. There is always that 1 in a million though that either goes nuts or does something unbelievably stupid at the worste possible time. They are not automatically a "Good guy!" but statisticly it is far far far more likely that they are.

I think it is possible that your past experience as a LEO has jaded your faith in your fellow man. Please try to remember only a very few of us are really "Bad Guys" despite the fact that you had to deal with the worste of us day in and day out as a LEO.