Way to go homeowner!

[northwest gunny]

Im not saying you should shoot the guy stealing your rig but what if he did and the drunk, drugged up *** caused an accident getting away and killed an innocent family on the road or even made a school bus flip over and kill all the helpless little kids. Or mabe he used the rig to go kidnap and rape someone. I would be wondering what if....... you never know how far the ripples of your decision might go or who they will effect.

 

[Redcap]

I agree with jammer - i would never pull a gun to prevent someone from stealing my stuff. The potential results aren't worth a few bucks. I actually find it refreshing to see this.

You find it refreshing to see that some think cowardice is acceptable?

 

[Ownerus]

I agree with jammer - i would never pull a gun to prevent someone from stealing my stuff. The potential results aren't worth a few bucks. I actually find it refreshing to see this.

Just so you understand that societally, this is a two edged sword. You have biased the risk-benefit equation of theft in favor of the thief. The laws that support (or coerce) your decision to not defend property do the same. As a result, we have more theft. Weigh that as you will.

As a side observation, I notice that government isn't hindered by such niceties. Don't pay your taxes? Resist long enough and they will kill you. Over a few dollars. For the encouragement of the rest of us. Obviously they know something some of us don't like to admit.

 

[rolandson]

You find it refreshing to see that some think cowardice is acceptable?

It seems that jammer, through the use of subtlety and innuendo, and perhaps a touch of humor, has conveyed knowledge and understanding of the distinction between intelligence and bravado. A quality I think that commands respect rather than ridicule. Something I would hope predominates among armed civilians.

I am reminded of a comment of my defensive handgun trainer about having the ability to shoot and the brains to know when not to.

 

[U201494]

I am going to call BS on Jammer Six and his / her 'jacking story.

 

[U201494]

It seems that jammer, through the use of subtlety and innuendo, and perhaps a touch of humor, has conveyed knowledge and understanding of the distinction between intelligence and bravado. A quality I think that commands respect rather than ridicule. Something I would hope predominates among armed civilians.

This is the Internet, you can post horseysh*it and some people will believe it.

 

[soberups]

You find it refreshing to see that some think cowardice is acceptable?

It is not cowardice to simply make the decision not to shoot someone. I call that wisdom.

From a pure cost/benefit standpoint, if I allow my car to be stolen, I will spend the better part of a day filing a police report and an insurance claim. I will go rent a car, and then when I get a check from my insurance company I will buy a replacement. If, on the other hand, I shoot the guy who is trying to 'jack my car...I may be facing criminal charges and having to spend thousands on an attorney just to stay out of prison as well as having my gun and my carry permit taken away. Not to mention the psychological and emotional ramifications of taking a life, even a scumbags life. Dont get me wrong, if my or my loved one's life is endangered I wont hesitate to pull the trigger, but if letting him have the car or the $26 in my wallet will keep the situation from becoming lethal then that seems like the better choice to me. And if that makes me a "coward" then so be it, its a choice I can live with.

 

[The B]

Here in Oregon we cannot shoot to protect property. You have to be in fear for your life. We do not have the Castle Doctrine either.

I'm 'fraid you are WRONG.

161.219 Limitations on use of deadly physical force in defense of a person. Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.209, a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:
(1) Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or
(3) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person. [1971 c.743 §23]

This is the definition of "Castle Doctrine"

 

[Spad]

So sad we have to debate what to do to criminals when they rob us, threaten us, yes, taking your property is not exactly threating, than what is it........a nice jesture that you should appreciate, and condone....Seems so by some people, so let them smile and assist the criminal, cause he will just go away and rob, plunder someone else.Each crime is an individual act and an approbiate response at time can only be done by the circumstances at the time.......If they are stealing your peanut butter sandwich, you sure can't shoot him, but what about they are taking your dog? Lot of variables out there, staying within the law is a tough thing now that we pander to the crooks and they use the system of taxpayer appointed lawyers to defend themselves. Spad

 

[Burt Gummer]

My law professor used to tell me if you have to shoot an intruder in your home in Oregon slide your TV remote control or some of your silverware into his pocket.

 

[The B]

My law professor used to tell me if you have to shoot an intruder in your home in Oregon slide your TV remote control or some of your silverware into his pocket.

Sometimes I really wish there was an "unlike" button on this board.

 

[JimmyS1985]

There was only one time in my life that I would legitimately consider shooting someone doing property crime on my family's household. The problem was that each time some group of teenagers would drive by my house they would egg/paintball/kick a fender in, break our front window/throw a beer can through our window while there was a HS party up the street/or spray one of our parked cars with BB's or put a condom on our cars door handle. The amount of times it occured it was clear that it was not isolated, but was repeated over and over, over a 2 and a half year period, in an attempt to terrorize my family (was somewhat successful too I might add).

There was a subculture of vandalism in my neighborhood amongst the highschoolers I quickly found out. Once I was walking to my friends house, and saw a parked car with eggs and toilet paper in the backseat, so I called in its plates, and they later got caught for it.

All in all I would say I lived in a pretty dangerous neighborhood even though it was only property crime, the teenagers were entirely unpredictable as to what they would do next, or what they planned on doing to my household. There was a well known "Senior's prank" night where a lot of the Highschool kids would go around in their cars TeePeeings and egging, putting vaseline on car door handles and stuff all across the town. And these were white kids, ones that smoked a lot of pot and drank a lot of beer, we didn't really have much problem with the African Americans in our town, but we lived like 2 miles from them.

Once I saw a teenager who lived in my neighbor driving recklessly, doing say about 60mph in a 25mph residential, in which he crashed into a neighbors car and drove off. Well the neighbor got the plate # and I could easily identify the car (It was a 90's Ford Thunderbird) so I gave the police exactly what I knew and they took me for a ride over to his house and had me positively identify the car that he was driving. I imagine the kid was brought up on felony hit and run charges since he creamed into that truck rather hard and was driving very dangerously for such small residential streets.

2 weeks later, I left my house to go get new tires for my car, and left the front door in the house unlocked. We have a lady from Kenya who lived with us at the time named Paris (she actually still lives in my current household to this day, even though my family changed houses) and told me that 4 strange young men were in our living room and had entered through the unlocked door, I imagine waiting for me to return home so they could harm me. They left, and I never heard about it since then, we moved out shortly thereafter just because the young people in that town, in that neighborhood, were entirely unpredictable. The house across the street had a childhood friend I was friends with, and he would have cops at his house every 2-3 months over some type of domestic disturbance, from all the druggies he hung out with.

For some reason though, my family (probably because we were a lame group of liberals) never thought to put in any type of security system, or actually carry firearms regularly just due to the impressive amount of crime that was going on in our neighborhood. Looking back, if it were up to me, between that neighborhood and road rage incidents, I don't know why I don't carry to this day, but it seems that my encounters with scumbags have gone down drastically since I no longer drive an attention getting fast japanese imported car and we moved out of the neighborhood so there is no real immediate threat that would require me to carry a gun at my current residence.

We'd call the police over to investigate the significant incidents where a lot of damage was done to our property, and they were all but useless. They did virtually nothing to stop the immense amount of property crime on my household.

These days I live in a "shoot first, ask questions later" neighborhood so asides people stealing our head units, crime isn't really an issue, atleast senseless vandalism and other stuff of the sort.

 

[davef]

It is not cowardice to simply make the decision not to shoot someone. I call that wisdom.

Dont get me wrong, if my or my loved one's life is endangered I wont hesitate to pull the trigger, but if letting him have the car or the $26 in my wallet will keep the situation from becoming lethal then that seems like the better choice to me. And if that makes me a "coward" then so be it, its a choice I can live with.

So... assuming the guy jacking the car is armed, thats what we are all assuming here. At what point do you decide that your life isnt in danger? You're stuck in your car with nowhere to escape to. To me, if a perp has a gun pointed at me, my life is in danger. It has nothing to do with the car or the property. It has everything to do with the fact that Im being threatened by an armed assailant. How are you so sure that when you get out of the car he's not taking you down? Why do you even carry then?

Oh and to the guy who was bubbleguming about my grammar because I forgot a couple of commas... I wasn't aware I was still in a college english class. Ill make sure to check my work next time Professor.

 

[Crispy]

When I teach, I teach the following scenario.

I teach that late at night, you come around a corner just in time to see a large, muscular man knock a small woman to the ground. As she sees you, she screams "help me, he's going to kill me!", and, in fact, you see that the man is in the process of pulling gun and pointing it at her.

What should you do?

So far, the overwhelming majority of my young, male students all agree that you should draw your weapon and prevent the detective from arresting the drug dealer.

Sooo, your telling me that a LEO is going to knock a woman to the ground and then draw a weapon??? Please do tell, where do you teach?

 

[Burt Gummer]

"My law professor used to tell me if you have to shoot an intruder in your home in Oregon slide your TV remote control or some of your silverware into his pocket."

Sometimes I really wish there was an "unlike" button on this board.

Why? Just because I repeated what a very prominent law professor told me? I didn't advise doing it. Lighten up.

BTW - shooting someone would be the very last thing I'd ever want to do. Unlike a lot of people here who seem to froth at the opportunity to kill. I am sure most that do cannot differentiate between real killing and COD.

 

[rolandson]

Sooo, your telling me that a LEO is going to knock a woman to the ground and then draw a weapon??? Please do tell, where do you teach?

Yes, of course, you didn't know this? Law enforcement agencies all train their members to put their weapons in close proximity to suspects because no suspect would ever attempt to disarm a cop...the proscribed manner being to draw one's weapon, approach suspect with weapon extended and then force suspect to the ground.

What agency did you train with?

 

[sealine]

I don't agree with using a weapon to "defend" property.

I've been 'jacked. I was armed. I let them take the car, because that's not what weapons are for, unless you're a poser.

Yeah.......these 2 beauties and their 2 friends didn't steal this homeowners car. They stole 2 shotguns, 2 rifles, and 1 pistol. And then they came back to his house! I'm from Georgia, so my math isn't the greatest but I'll give this one a shot. They way I see it, theres a possibility of 2 of these tweekers being armed with shotguns, 2 of them being armed with rifles; with 1 of the 4 also having a pistol, just for good measure.

When the homeowner was on the phone with the police, he should have just said, "Oh disregard. The group of people that stole my firearms just pulled back in my driveway to return them." Maybe you can teach this scenario at your next class.

 

[Jammer Six]

You find it refreshing to see that some think cowardice is acceptable?

You don't have to accept it. I do.

 

[Redcap]

You don't have to accept it. I do.

Then you are a pretty damn sorry excuse for a man.

 

[soberups]

Cowardice is when you let your fear control your actions instead of doing what you know is right. It is not cowardice to make a decision to let someone live rather than killing them over a material item.

All scenarios are different, and it is foolhardy to sit in the comfort of ones home in front of a computer and second-guess the actions of the one who was actually there. The one who actually pulls the trigger is the one who is going to have to live with all of the consequences and ramifications of doing so, so he/she is the only one who can decide whether the benefits outweigh those costs.

Ego has NO useful place in that decision making process. My attitude is that I have a gun, and I also have an ego, but I never ever carry both of them at the same time.