Way to go homeowner!

[soberups]

Then you are a pretty damn sorry excuse for a man.

Real men have no need to prove their "manhood" to others, especially when it involves the use of lethal force.

 

[rolandson]

There are those however, who are so insecure in their manliness, that they are in constant need to compare their 'manhood' against all others, to reinforce that which they find so inadequate in themselves. Failing that they will content themselves with accusations and distractions hoping nobody notices how truly small (minded) and shallow they really are.

 

[Riot]

And if that makes me a "coward" then so be it, its a choice I can live with.

EXACTLY! Nobody here can tell you what you should or shouldn't do in a given situation because only you can perceive the threat presented. Only YOU can convey if you feel that your life is in jeopardy. Lastly, only YOU will be sitting in that defendant box when you pull the trigger.

My law professor used to tell me if you have to shoot an intruder in your home in Oregon slide your TV remote control or some of your silverware into his pocket.

You realize that people that don't are anti-gun read the posts on these forums, right? And you realize that if you ever did shoot someone this very post may come and bite you in the rear as premeditation.

Cowardice is when you let your fear control your actions instead of doing what you know is right. It is not cowardice to make a decision to let someone live rather than killing them over a material item.

Agreed. By not acting at all from Jammer's previously mentioned example (cop pushing woman to the ground) you are a coward. By simply judging the situation as a shoot scenario you are a fool (hence why it was a loaded scenario). There are no cut and dry, black and white shootings. Ever. Most cops even fear the civil suit more than the bullet coming from the perp's gun (however this thought is changing with more police shootings).

All scenarios are different, and it is foolhardy to sit in the comfort of ones home in front of a computer and second-guess the actions of the one who was actually there. The one who actually pulls the trigger is the one who is going to have to live with all of the consequences and ramifications of doing so, so he/she is the only one who can decide whether the benefits outweigh those costs.

Ego has NO useful place in that decision making process. My attitude is that I have a gun, and I also have an ego, but I never ever carry both of them at the same time.

Nicely put, sir.



Look fellas, when you carry a firearm you assume certain responsibilities.

#1. Never let your firearm be taken from you and used against someone else. You must be constantly aware of your surroundings and where you are in relationship to the biggest threat or likely avenue of approach for threat(s).

#2. Pretend each bullet you fire has a lawyer attached to it. You must account for every round you fire and thus have an obligation to hit at what you are aiming at. You are just as dangerous firing blindly in a community as a drive-by gang member if you do not practice and be efficient with your firearm.

#3. True, a .22 in your pocket is better than the .45 you left at home or in your car. Nevertheless you should always carry the firearm that best suits you and your needs with your situation. You should carry the biggest firearm you can carry with the most rounds it can effectively hold. You should also buy this firearm based upon what you can afford, feels comfortable in your hands and are willing to shoot. Lastly this firearm should be the biggest caliber you can accurately shoot while economical to practice with and remain proficient with while simultaneously being safe enough to not injure, maim or kill innocent bystanders.

 

[Hawaiian]

Well, going back to the original post and the facts of the report, the guy shot out a tire on the car. There was no report of anyone using deadly force against him, or of him being attacked in any way. Legally, he is toast.

 

[JimmyS1985]

Im not trying to take away from your post, the big and bold letters make it clear as day as for what us upstanding citizens who like to CCW firearms should do in day-day life.

I remember once driving in my MR2 Turbo. For some oddball reason, US V8 A-holes find it VERY OFFENSIVE when you have a car that doesn't utilize a US V8 for a "fast" car. I suspect the perpetrator who confronted me was an ex-convict due to his high level of stupidity over something as simple as country of origin branding for a car and a silly license plate.

I was driving in a MR2 Turbo, it had a funny license plate, atleast I thought it was, that said "URV8SX". The car was pretty quick and could keep up with most naturally aspirated V8's at the time.

Anyways this guy starts asking me about the car from his girlfriends Honda Accord, so I told him its got about 300whp and is capable of running a solid 12-second quarter-mile which I was proud of because I had built the car entirely myself.

The guy then starts ripping on the car, calling it a 'toy' me a bubblegum, and that it was a girls car and whatnot. I flicked him off since I wasn't anticipating such blatant disrespect towards a car I had put thousands into and lots of time and love. With his girlfriend chasing me down in her Honda Accord so her boyfriend could yell at me, I eventually boiled over. I threw ONE single 'penny' at them. This was a mistake.

I boosted off into traffic to get away from the anger prone dude. But I while I should of jumped onto the highway and continued to boost away from them, I did not. I stayed in traffic, inwhich they weaved through traffic, right behind me, and got out of their vehicle.

I won't deny that there was some complete stupidity on my part, in fact, I expect some people from NWFA to point out my stupidity in the post following this post, but I was not expecting to be confronted at my drivers-side window by the girlfriend, who threw a piece of trash at me for responding to them road raging at me. Then the boy friend hops out, gets right up to my drivers side window with his fist cocked back like he is about to knock me THE F out. Light turned green, I saw no cars were in front of me, I revved it up to 6500 and popped the clutch, made a quick U-Turn and got the F out of there.

From that day on, I knew the importance of having a firearm in your car, when you drove. I have an inflammatory bumper sticker regarding womens reproductive rights in this country, and occasionally run into someone who thinks women should have no rights over their own body, that their belly or womb, should all of a sudden become a crime scene if an "abortion" has taken place. I got flipped off over it but a few days ago. I can easily see how this could escalate into a much larger matter over something as silly as political views on womens reproductive rights due to my bumper sticker.

I am not looking to kill, so much as be prepared incase I do run into that ex-convict who has a strong differing opinion over something I have posted on the rear of my car. I have seen complete pompous smug arrogance for people who believe American V8's have a higher position than anything the Japanese can produce, as someone who is a fan of Japanese cars and engines, I need to watch out for those types of people.

I am not 'trying' to be a killer. I just want is best for my well being and my family. If that involves a firearm and good training on retention techniques and how to shoot it, so be it.

 

[Riot]

Im not trying to take away from your post, the big and bold letters make it clear as day as for what us upstanding citizens who like to CCW firearms should do in day-day life.

I remember once driving in my MR2 Turbo. For some oddball reason, US V8 A-holes find it VERY OFFENSIVE when you have a car that doesn't utilize a US V8 for a "fast" car. I suspect the perpetrator who confronted me was an ex-convict due to his high level of stupidity over something as simple as country of origin branding for a car and a silly license plate.

I was driving in a MR2 Turbo, it had a funny license plate, atleast I thought it was, that said "URV8SX". The car was pretty quick and could keep up with most naturally aspirated V8's at the time.

Anyways this guy starts asking me about the car from his girlfriends Honda Accord, so I told him its got about 300whp and is capable of running a solid 12-second quarter-mile which I was proud of because I had built the car entirely myself.

The guy then starts ripping on the car, calling it a 'toy' me a bubblegum, and that it was a girls car and whatnot. I flicked him off since I wasn't anticipating such blatant disrespect towards a car I had put thousands into and lots of time and love. With his girlfriend chasing me down in her Honda Accord so her boyfriend could yell at me, I eventually boiled over. I threw ONE single 'penny' at them. This was a mistake.

I boosted off into traffic to get away from the anger prone dude. But I while I should of jumped onto the highway and continued to boost away from them, I did not. I stayed in traffic, inwhich they weaved through traffic, right behind me, and got out of their vehicle.

I won't deny that there was some complete stupidity on my part, in fact, I expect some people from NWFA to point out my stupidity in the post following this post, but I was not expecting to be confronted at my drivers-side window by the girlfriend, who threw a piece of trash at me for responding to them road raging at me. Then the boy friend hops out, gets right up to my drivers side window with his fist cocked back like he is about to knock me THE F out. Light turned green, I saw no cars were in front of me, I revved it up to 6500 and popped the clutch, made a quick U-Turn and got the F out of there.

From that day on, I knew the importance of having a firearm in your car, when you drove. I have an inflammatory bumper sticker regarding womens reproductive rights in this country, and occasionally run into someone who thinks women should have no rights over their own body, that their belly or womb, should all of a sudden become a crime scene if an "abortion" has taken place. I got flipped off over it but a few days ago. I can easily see how this could escalate into a much larger matter over something as silly as political views on womens reproductive rights due to my bumper sticker.

I am not looking to kill, so much as be prepared incase I do run into that ex-convict who has a strong differing opinion over something I have posted on the rear of my car. I have seen complete pompous smug arrogance for people who believe American V8's have a higher position than anything the Japanese can produce, as someone who is a fan of Japanese cars and engines, I need to watch out for those types of people.

I am not 'trying' to be a killer. I just want is best for my well being and my family. If that involves a firearm and good training on retention techniques and how to shoot it, so be it.

What did you take/learn from your experience with the road-rager?

 

[JimmyS1985]

What did you take/learn from your experience with the road-rager?

Do your best not to blatantly offend people. I had no idea that there were people who were willing to assault you over a license plate until that time. Maybe I was naive, I was, but at the same time, I had no F'N idea that some people would take it to that level.

I don't expect to NOT get criticized for this story I have let loose on this forum. The only thing I took away from that day is the importance of having some sort of personal defense weapon in your car in-case of that happening.

The most 'helpless' I felt was when the boyfriend was running up to my drivers side window, and I had no way/shape/form of a weapon, to defend myself with. This is a 100% true story btw.

 

[Crispy]

Yes, of course, you didn't know this? Law enforcement agencies all train their members to put their weapons in close proximity to suspects because no suspect would ever attempt to disarm a cop...the proscribed manner being to draw one's weapon, approach suspect with weapon extended and then force suspect to the ground.

What agency did you train with?

I suggest that you reread the quote that I originally commented on rolandson. Your tweaked explanation does not defend the sentiment. Your telling me that once a LEO has already gone hands on and has established control over the suspect, that LEO is then suppose to break contact and draw their firearm?

*scratching head are you being sarcastic?

 

[soberups]

Do your best not to blatantly offend people. I had no idea that there were people who were willing to assault you over a license plate until that time. Maybe I was naive, I was, but at the same time, I had no F'N idea that some people would take it to that level.

I don't expect to NOT get criticized for this story I have let loose on this forum. The only thing I took away from that day is the importance of having some sort of personal defense weapon in your car in-case of that happening.

The most 'helpless' I felt was when the boyfriend was running up to my drivers side window, and I had no way/shape/form of a weapon, to defend myself with. This is a 100% true story btw.

Perhaps another lesson you could learn would be to avoid engaging stupid, angry people. This will become all the more important if you decide to get a permit and start carrying. Once armed, you have both a legal and moral responsibility to do everything within your power to de-escalate tense situations and avoid conflict by any means possible....including allowing the other party to "win" the argument, insult you,call you names, flip you off, or get the last word in. Once armed, you dont get to be "right" any more and you have to leave your pride and ego behind. You can console yourself after the fact by reminding yourself that you may very well have saved that persons life by being the bigger man and walking away.

Not trying to criticize you...it sounds like you already know you kinda screwed up there....just pointing out how much higher the stakes get when you start carrying.

 

[The B]

Perhaps another lesson you could learn would be to avoid engaging stupid, angry people. This will become all the more important if you decide to get a permit and start carrying. Once armed, you have both a legal and moral responsibility to do everything within your power to de-escalate tense situations and avoid conflict by any means possible....including allowing the other party to "win" the argument, insult you,call you names, flip you off, or get the last word in. Once armed, you dont get to be "right" any more and you have to leave your pride and ego behind. You can console yourself after the fact by reminding yourself that you may very well have saved that persons life by being the bigger man and walking away.

Not trying to criticize you...it sounds like you already know you kinda screwed up there....just pointing out how much higher the stakes get when you start carrying.

Bullshiite. My willingness to engage in good ol' fashined fisticuffs is no less now than it ever was before I started packing. Having a gun on my hip does NOT remove my balls.

What's up with all you guys and your lecturing? You take yourselves and your guns WAY too seriously. This stuff isn't that bubbleguming complicated, gentlemen- ignore the long-winded blow-hards and their invented "legal responsibility to be a pantywaist," study the ORS, and go about your freaken life. Packing a piece of steel on your hip does not make life different.

 

[U201494]

What's up with all you guys and your lecturing? You take yourselves and your guns WAY too seriously. This stuff isn't that bubbleguming complicated, gentlemen- ignore the long-winded blow-hards and their invented "legal responsibility to be a pantywaist," study the ORS, and go about your freaken life. Packing a piece of steel on your hip does not make life different.

Dead on correct.
This is now an encounter group.
Check your nads at the door before entering and you must believe everything everyone posts.

 

[JimmyS1985]

Perhaps another lesson you could learn would be to avoid engaging stupid, angry people. This will become all the more important if you decide to get a permit and start carrying. Once armed, you have both a legal and moral responsibility to do everything within your power to de-escalate tense situations and avoid conflict by any means possible....including allowing the other party to "win" the argument, insult you,call you names, flip you off, or get the last word in. Once armed, you dont get to be "right" any more and you have to leave your pride and ego behind. You can console yourself after the fact by reminding yourself that you may very well have saved that persons life by being the bigger man and walking away.

Not trying to criticize you...it sounds like you already know you kinda screwed up there....just pointing out how much higher the stakes get when you start carrying.

You are dead on. Any criticism I received for the story I told was well deserved, Im not blaming you, so much as myself. I shouldn't of even engaged the guy, I should of rolled up my windows and pretended he wasn't there. The worst thing you can do in a road rage incident is to acknowledge the person and then potentially make the road rage situation worse through reacting to them.

We have a family friend, really nice guy, Lets call him BIll. I don't have all the details on the story, but some guys were chasing him down in traffic to make their displeasure with him a point. At some point during the road rage exchange, he flourished a firearm (as a magician, flourishing means showing off something you wouldn't ordinarily do). They left him alone at that point, not before calling the police.




Now he has potentially a felony charge over showing off his gun to a road rager. I think it will be knocked down to a misdemeanor since the guy really isn't a violent person, but let it be known that if you're going to show your weapon off, the main point is to use it, not to warn.

I feel bad for the guy, but you can not use your firearm to warn, it can only be used in situations where it is required. I hope he gets let off with a misdemeanor, I think he will, so he can continue to own firearms in the future.

Bullshiite. My willingness to engage in good ol' fashined fisticuffs is no less now than it ever was before I started packing. Having a gun on my hip does NOT remove my balls.
What's up with all you guys and your lecturing? You take yourselves and your guns WAY too seriously. This stuff isn't that bubbleguming complicated, gentlemen- ignore the long-winded blow-hards and their invented "legal responsibility to be a pantywaist," study the ORS, and go about your freaken life. Packing a piece of steel on your hip does not make life different.

I for one am paranoid as all hell when I pull my gun out. I like keeping it in a case in the car, but I haven't made the plunge to start open carrying it. I know there are a lot of businesses that have a no-firearms sticker posted on the door which makes packing heat regularly, pointless. I live in a nice neighborhood, even though we have the reputation of a "shoot first ask questions later" neighborhood. I don't want to start walking around the neighborhood with a gun on my hip, or I might potentially look like the "mall ninja" (look that up incase you don't know its a young man who thinks having a firearm will solve all his problems in life).

the best you can do is keep your weapon concealed, if you are good at that, you will never be cited for it and businesses won't know that you are breaking their silly rule. I think even the penalty for it, atleast in Missouri, is some fine, nothing major in which case you deserve to be penalized for not keeping your weapon concealed.

 

[Riot]

I suggest that you reread the quote that I originally commented on rolandson. Your tweaked explanation does not defend the sentiment. Your telling me that once a LEO has already gone hands on and has established control over the suspect, that LEO is then suppose to break contact and draw their firearm?

*scratching head are you being sarcastic?

He was being grossly and overly sarcastic.

You are dead on. Any criticism I received for the story I told was well deserved, Im not blaming you, so much as myself. I shouldn't of even engaged the guy, I should of rolled up my windows and pretended he wasn't there. The worst thing you can do in a road rage incident is to acknowledge the person and then potentially make the road rage situation worse through reacting to them.

We have a family friend, really nice guy, Lets call him BIll. I don't have all the details on the story, but some guys were chasing him down in traffic to make their displeasure with him a point. At some point during the road rage exchange, he flourished a firearm (as a magician, flourishing means showing off something you wouldn't ordinarily do). They left him alone at that point, not before calling the police.

Now he has potentially a felony charge over showing off his gun to a road rager. I think it will be knocked down to a misdemeanor since the guy really isn't a violent person, but let it be known that if you're going to show your weapon off, the main point is to use it, not to warn.

I feel bad for the guy, but you can not use your firearm to warn, it can only be used in situations where it is required. I hope he gets let off with a misdemeanor, I think he will, so he can continue to own firearms in the future.

Mind if I give a few pointers here?

A firearm can be used to warn people, but never for road rage. If someone broke into my home, are you saying I can't point a firearm at him and have him proned out until the police come? Your friend "Bill" wanted to win a contest of egos and lost...in the game of "paper, rock, gun", the guy that calls the police first will always win. Especially if he said the magic words "he brandished a firearm" and Bill had a gun on him (hence why you shouldn't have an NRA sticker on your car unless you want some witty Road Rage guy reading it and telling the police you showed him the business end of your concealed carry piece).

What you learned-

Do your best not to blatantly offend people. I had no idea that there were people who were willing to assault you over a license plate until that time. Maybe I was naive, I was, but at the same time, I had no F'N idea that some people would take it to that level.

I don't expect to NOT get criticized for this story I have let loose on this forum. The only thing I took away from that day is the importance of having some sort of personal defense weapon in your car in-case of that happening.

The most 'helpless' I felt was when the boyfriend was running up to my drivers side window, and I had no way/shape/form of a weapon, to defend myself with. This is a 100% true story btw.

Just food for thought even if you had a gun in your lap and he had a crowbar in his hand- you did the right thing. You put that hog in 'D' and left the area with a quickness. I'm glad that you learned from the situation and left unharmed. Wisdom is only learned by self examining your actions and reevaluating how you act in the future. Take this as a learning opportunity of what to do and what not to do...don't just sit here and say what you did wrong without include what you did right. Did you make the situation worse? Yes, but did you decide to "bug out" instead of get physical? Yes.

Sometimes it takes being humbled from time to time to realize that you aren't king crap or turd mountain. If you are reading this and have a <broken link removed>, realize that you need to check your ego on the nightstand/gun safe when you strap a piece on your hip. I can only imagine what two TYPE A, road raging firearm owners would do when they bump heads with each other...who would be right? Would anyone be right? Would someone get shot? God I can only imagine.

 

[JimmyS1985]

One of the more 'funny' road rage incidents I was caught in, my brother was driving, and I don't remember why other than my brother sucks at driving, some guy to the right of us flips him off. I couldn't help but think that flipping someone off is such an effortless gesture to make your displeasure known to the person.

In a truly comical retort, I, sitting in the passenger seat, pull my pants down and moons the guy. Now that shows some effort on my part, to actually pull my pants down and put my butt cheeks up to the window.

The guy went his separate way, but I imagine even he found it a hilarious response to him showing us the finger. If you are going to let your displeasure of another driver known, I say atleast put some effort into it.

 

[tankballs]

This is not a pissing contest. The ability to terminate a human doesn't define "manliness." You should never un-sheath your weapon unless you have no other option. This isn't the wild west (fortunately and, sometimes, unfortunately). Killing someone for a truck or a wallet is debatable. You have to make a decision based on what you are experiencing at the time of the incident. If you are endangered and confident that 12 other idiots will agree, pull the trigger. If you have any other possible route, feel it out. You must remember that most judges and juries don't think like we do. Although I believe we are right to smoke any crock-schmucker that breaks the plane of our front door, your "peers" are questionable. Furthermore, this is a decision you will live with forever, whether you are right or wrong. If you are using your 9mm, .45, .357, inside your house, you will likely be close enough to your enemy to be literally wearing him once you have done the deed. We're talking brain-matter, metallic blood, organic waste smells, blah, blah, blah. No matter how hard you think you are, you aren't that hard. I had the choice to smoke some big dude that attempted to break into my apartment at 5am. He tried to "bump the key" in my dead-bolt and I could hear every move he made while I waited bare-balls naked in my hallway waiting for the door to open. I crouched poised to bury a few .40 rounds in this dumb schmidt. I decided it was better to let him know that his fate was death on the other side of the door. I could have waited. I could have smoked him. I didn't and I don't regret it.

 

[JimmyS1985]

^I too always thought that they picked the dumbest people in jury selections, since they obviously were too stupid to come up with a decent excuse to get out of jury duty. Public duty my ***.

edit: My dad once got out of jury duty. It was a murder case and the prosecutor asks the potential members of the jury, if they had ever heard of the firearm that was used. My Dad raised his hand. Then the prosecutor asks if they have ever seen the firearm that was used, dad raises his hand again. Finally he asks if any of the potential jury members had ever fired the weapon before, once again dad raises his hand. Needless to say, he was not picked to be part of the jury.

 

[soberups]

Bullshiite. My willingness to engage in good ol' fashined fisticuffs is no less now than it ever was before I started packing. Having a gun on my hip does NOT remove my balls....

Well maybe it ought to be.

Once you make the decision to be armed, any encounter you find yourself in now has the potential to be LETHAL. Once you make the decision to be armed, any encounter you find yourself in has the potential to send you to PRISON for the rest of your life instead of just a few hours or a day in county lockup for a simple fistfight. You have raised the stakes exponentially by choosing to be armed with a lethal weapon, so your legal and moral responsibilities got raised also.

 

[soberups]

What's up with all you guys and your lecturing? You take yourselves and your guns WAY too seriously. This stuff isn't that bubbleguming complicated, gentlemen- ignore the long-winded blow-hards and their invented "legal responsibility to be a pantywaist," study the ORS, and go about your freaken life. Packing a piece of steel on your hip does not make life different.

Yes it does.

If you kill someone with that piece of steel and claim it was in self defense, you have a legal obligation to show that you were an UNWILLING PARTICIPANT in the encounter. Its not about being a "pantywaist", or a wimp, or whether or not one has gonads. Its about whether or not you want to spend the rest of your life in prison. When I carry a gun, I DO take it seriously.

 

[soberups]

Dead on correct.
This is now an encounter group.
Check your nads at the door before entering and you must believe everything everyone posts.

Its not an "encounter group", it is an internet forum discussing the legal ramifications of killing another person in self defense. Last time I checked, my "nads" were still attached AND safe at home instead of locked in prison for being an idiot and shooting someone with no justification.

 

[U201494]

Last time I checked, my "nads" were still attached AND safe at home

Good for you! Now for those times when you venture out of your safe home you can still sport a pair.

Your Nutz - Home of America's Premier Novelty Testicles!

The beauty of this system is now you can quickly detach and then toss them into nearby shrubbery or out the window of your automobile if you have to avoid a confrontation with some badasss or a kindergarten student.