Thinking of selling my Defender

[Koda]

Glocks have gone 10,000 plus rounds without a hiccup. No 1911 of any barrel length has ever even remotely approached this level of reliability

an easy Internet search says otherwise....

1911 round count lifespan at DuckDuckGo

 

[Boboclown]

ok so this is inherent to its swing link design?
So thats why all those plastic guns barrels are so obviously slanted upwards at sllidelock (by comparison)?

but what about 1911s with a ramped barrel?

They have a shorter locking system than the 1911. That's what makes it easier for them.

A commander could work, but IMHO a defender is more work. I just get around it by practicing with the full sized one.

 

[Alexx1401]

Commanders are definitely nifty although I myself could never 100% absolutely trust a 1911 to cycle properly after the first shot. What I have never understood though is the attraction of a Commander length 1911 with a steel frame. Almost all the weight and length of a full size 5 inch gun with more difficult cartridge feeding and lower bullet velocity due to that shorter barrel. Why not go with the 28 ounce model which was specifically designed to be lighter to lug around all day?

The reliability "thing" I have never tried to convince those who have a fear of. Always just say if they're not confident in any gun, get one they are. Confidence in what you carry is VERY important if you ever have to use it. I would never carry any gun, especially an auto without trying it out. I don't even trust a wheel gun until then.

As to the size weight thing I heard Colt originally came out with the Commander due to complaints about size weight of Government model. Then many started in with the alloy frame would not hold up. So the steel frame. Have had a couple and I too could never see the point and sold them but they still sell damn well. The slightly shorter was a little better in a shoulder rig horizontal carry which I still use at times. Not enough to matter much to me. Gun buyers seem to be a fickle lot. J. I know there are MUCH better designs now days. I just don't have an answer for why the 1911 does it for me so much. Judging from the amount of them made these days I am obviously not alone these days. Damn seems like every gun maker offers some now.

 

[Alexx1401]

Because the barrel has to go an even sharper angle with a shorter frame, which isn't the easiest thing to overcome in the 1911 apparently. The smaller 1911s have less room for error than the full sized ones.

Yep. There have been far better designs since the 1911. When they first started trying to make a smaller 1911 I of course wanted to love one. Detonics came close. I just never could get one 100% Now days they have come a LONG way with the process of mass producing one that is 100%. The problem was never making a short 1911 that worked. The problem was making them in mass so you could sell them at a price a lot of people would pay.

 

[Boboclown]

Yep. There have been far better designs since the 1911. When they first started trying to make a smaller 1911 I of course wanted to love one. Detonics came close. I just never could get one 100% Now days they have come a LONG way with the process of mass producing one that is 100%. The problem was never making a short 1911 that worked. The problem was making them in mass so you could sell them at a price a lot of people would pay.

Yeah. Its not impossible to make a short 1911 work, it just requires more effort and unfortunately mass production isn't THAT good.

 

[Alexx1401]

[QUOTE="James Hedman, All longterm reliability tests on the 1911 have more than confirmed this. Glocks have gone 10,000 plus rounds without a hiccup. No 1911 of any barrel length has ever even remotely approached this level of reliability.
/QUOTE]

<Sigh>, this is another example of the "watering hole" myth stuff. It is totally untrue. It 's stuff like this that gets passed around at the local watering hole and such in the day, now on the net. Many would then repeat it until many "thought" is must be fact. It's not. It's VERY common to have a 1911 that goes the owners lifetime and never hangs up. One of mine I have owned since the early 80's like this. I finally stopped carrying it long ago since some of the parts were made during WWI and sooner or later something else is bound to break. Even though parts of it have literally broken while shooting it has never failed to work for me. Another of mine was my Fathers. He and I did a lot of shooting until he left. It's still part of my EDC rotation and of course gets shot a lot. Has not failed since it was NIB in the mid 90"s. This is a common thing. Now again for those who are afraid of the 1911 they should not carry one. You have to have confidence in the EDC gun. Just like people who are afraid of the hammer on a 1911. Many can't be confident seeing it back. If they can't they should not carry one. LOT's of great designs now. For those who can't get their head around a 1911 use something you can "feel" good with.

 

[pigiron]

an easy Internet search says otherwise....

1911 round count lifespan at DuckDuckGo

Sorry but that is nothing but a bunch of individual anecdotes and the claim that frames can last 6000 rounds. Nothing about rigorous government tests with actual misfires, failures to feed, failures to extract, and stovepipes noted over thousands of rounds and different cleaning schedules. Talk to an experienced military armorer and they will tell you about repair rates for 1911s.

Our military branches have just gone to the SIG 320 to replace the Beretta which itself replaced the 1911. Reliability of both of the newer guns in testing was a key reason they were adopted.

No one is preventing you from loving your .45, just don't make up stories about it. It is tightly machined with lot's of parts and those parts break.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

Ultimately, I want a full size 1911 as well. But right now I'm focused on the mid-sized (Commander) as a carry gun because the length is more optimal for my short Hobbit frame (and I am becoming more dwarf-like every day). I have a LW Commander that was my father's and for sentimental and practical reasons I won't carry it (though I shoot it often enough).

Someday I hope to have the whole family, big to small.

As for other guns, I know they're out there, but right now I'm fascinated (and perhaps a little obsessed) with the 1911 design. As I become more familiar with it I come to appreciate it more and more. Is it a perfect gun? At times this Defender certainly isn't. But it's the platform I have chosen (ignorantly or not) and I'm completely cool with the decision. I know it can work; it's just a question of learning and adapting properly to its quirks.

Certainly one could say that I made my decision to go all 1911 out of ignorance of the vast possibilities available, and they'd be right. But who cares? It's my choice.

 

[Alexx1401]

Yeah. Its not impossible to make a short 1911 work, it just requires more effort and unfortunately mass production isn't THAT good.

YEP!! If you want to be able to price something for "everyone" you have to be able to crank them out by the truckload. This has long been a challenge for the short 1911. Even the full size took some work. Remember when some first started jumping into the market they had some real problems. AMT was a prime example. LOVED the look of those early stainless 1911's and their price beat Colt. Only problem was a LOT of them did not work without quite a bit of tinkering. Same with the ones made in the Philippines. When they first started they left a LOT to be desired. Company hired some good craftsmen to show them how to do it right and soon they were cranking out some damn fine 1911's at a price that got a LOT more people to try one.

 

[Alexx1401]

Ultimately, I want a full size 1911 as well. But right now I'm focused on the mid-sized (Commander) as a carry gun because the length is more optimal for my short Hobbit frame (and I am becoming more dwarf-like every day). I have a LW Commander that was my father's and for sentimental and practical reasons I won't carry it (though I shoot it often enough).

Someday I hope to have the whole family, big to small.

As for other guns, I know they're out there, but right now I'm fascinated (and perhaps a little obsessed) with the 1911 design. As I become more familiar with it I come to appreciate it more and more. Is it a perfect gun? At times this Defender certainly isn't. But it's the platform I have chosen (ignorantly or not) and I'm completely cool with the decision. I know it can work; it's just a question of learning and adapting properly to its quirks.

Certainly one could say that I made my decision to go all 1911 out of ignorance of the vast possibilities available, and they'd be right. But who cares? It's my choice.

Once you're hooked on the 1911 you're hooked. . Many ask me why? I really don't have an answer. I just tell them if they come up with a Phaser for us like on Star trek I will still be carrying a 1911. ;-)

 

[pigiron]

I just don't have an answer for why the 1911 does it for me so much. Judging from the amount of them made these days I am obviously not alone these days. Damn seems like every gun maker offers some now.

They are narrow, cool looking, and that beautifully crisp trigger can sometimes be matched by some other guns but never really bettered.

 

[Koda]

Certainly one could say that I made my decision to go all 1911 out of ignorance of the vast possibilities available, and they'd be right. But who cares? It's my choice.

except that they be wrong...
but who cares, its their choice... lol

 

[CHLChris]

I'm a Glock guy through and through, but I have no idea why folks use a thread like this to spout off their preferences for particular brands to try to convince the OP to entirely switch direction. 1911's, as a class of pistol, and with proper care and feeding, have a stellar reputation of reliability.

When I had a foray into 1911's I owned 3 Defender-sized pistols and they all suffered from failures. I truly believe I must have been limp-wristing them or somehow causing the failures with my form in some way, but since I'd never had such issues with subcompact striker-fired pistols, I just left that class of pistol entirely. I never had any issues with commander-sized 1911's though. However, I really preferred ones with a bobbed mainspring housing for carry!!

 

[Koda]

Sorry but that is nothing but a bunch of individual anecdotes and the claim that frames can last 6000 rounds. Nothing about rigorous government tests with actual misfires, failures to feed, failures to extract, and stovepipes noted over thousands of rounds and different cleaning schedules. Talk to an experienced military armorer and they will tell you about repair rates for 1911s.

Our military branches have just gone to the SIG 320 to replace the Beretta which itself replaced the 1911. Reliability of both of the newer guns in testing was a key reason they were adopted.

No one is preventing you from loving your .45, just don't make up stories about it. It is tightly machined with lot's of parts and those parts break.

and so where did you get the statistics that Glocks have survived 10,000 rds without failure? Were those rigorous govt studies too?

 

[MrMillspecer]

At 10,000 rounds a 1911 is barley broken in.

 

[Boboclown]

When I had a foray into 1911's I owned 3 Defender-sized pistols and they all suffered from failures. I truly believe I must have been limp-wristing them or somehow causing the failures with my form in some way, but since I'd never had such issues with subcompact striker-fired pistols, I just left that class of pistol entirely. I never had any issues with commander-sized 1911's though. However, I really preferred ones with a bobbed mainspring housing for carry!!

Going from the full sized 1911 to the commander is significantly easier than the defender. The 1911's locking system is longer than the other ones, which makes shortening the barrel difficult.

You weren't having issues with your technique by the sound of it, its just not easy making a short 1911.

 

[Koda]

if all these fallacies about the 1911 being unreliable and not lasting 10K rds etc. were true it wouldn't still be the longest issued military pistol in history.

 

[NW_bang_bang]

I'm a diehard 1911 guy too... Oten tempted by cheaper, "modern" handguns, but can never quite justify it.

Good luck with your conundrum! Were I in the market, it'd be tempting to pick up, even with possible expenses at gunsmith. Maybe it's a good excuse to visit a local gunsmith and get it fixed plus some upgrades?

 

[pigiron]

[QUOTE="James Hedman, All longterm reliability tests on the 1911 have more than confirmed this. Glocks have gone 10,000 plus rounds without a hiccup. No 1911 of any barrel length has ever even remotely approached this level of reliability.
/QUOTE]

<Sigh>, this is another example of the "watering hole" myth stuff. It is totally untrue. It 's stuff like this that gets passed around at the local watering hole and such in the day, now on the net. Many would then repeat it until many "thought" is must be fact. It's not. It's VERY common to have a 1911 that goes the owners lifetime and never hangs up. One of mine I have owned since the early 80's like this. I finally stopped carrying it long ago since some of the parts were made during WWI and sooner or later something else is bound to break. Even though parts of it have literally broken while shooting it has never failed to work for me. Another of mine was my Fathers. He and I did a lot of shooting until he left. It's still part of my EDC rotation and of course gets shot a lot. Has not failed since it was NIB in the mid 90"s. This is a common thing. Now again for those who are afraid of the 1911 they should not carry one. You have to have confidence in the EDC gun. Just like people who are afraid of the hammer on a 1911. Many can't be confident seeing it back. If they can't they should not carry one. LOT's of great designs now. For those who can't get their head around a 1911 use something you can "feel" good with.

C'mon Alex, nothing I have said necessarily contradicts you as I do notice that your guns have broken at times. Of course there are 1911's that are pampered range queens with 2362 total rounds through them that last a "lifetime." I just sold one last year. It was my prized Ed Brown Limited with nary a scratch on it. Now I have a Walther PPQ 45 which I am less afraid of dropping on the ground it getting dinged. LOL My son always likes to go shooting with me because I buy my ammo in 500 round cans and he has a Ruger Convertible. He does carry it afield with loaded with Long Colts but I don't subsidize those.

 

[pigiron]

if all these fallacies about the 1911 being unreliable and not lasting 10K rds etc. were true it wouldn't still be the longest issued military pistol in history.

Dude, I said they don't fire 10k rounds without hiccups. They lasted 10k rounds and more albeit with much armorer attention and periodic rebuilds.