The Urban get home issue

[AMProducts]

My feelings exactly.

On blending in.

If its a mass casualty event, and you are unharmed, and can't or are unable to help others, act injured. Limp scruff up clothing etc.

If you can't egress at night, without drawing attention to yourself. Don't. Have you ever tried hiking at night without lights or a decent moon? Give it a try if you can. It's really difficult with a decent moon, and a great way to twist an ankle as well. Now your bad situation is really freaking bad.

Oddly enough, at a mass casualty event, medical first responders want you to GTFO so they can worry about the injured. LE might want you to stick around for questioning. It's generally a "if you're not part of the solution, get out, because you're part of the problem."

As for moving at night, I've gotten really good at doing night hikes using only a glowstick for light. Green colored glowsticks work really well for this, both the LED ones, as well as the more standard chemlights. Over all, while I usually keep a few chemlights around, I prefer the LED ones, you can turn them on and off as you need, they provide quite a bit of light, and are not heat/light sensitive to the point that they end up going bad before you use them (if you leave a chemlight out of it's package, it's usually toast in a few days of direct sunlight).

 

[Camelfilter]

Oddly enough, at a mass casualty event, medical first responders want you to GTFO so they can worry about the injured. LE might want you to stick around for questioning. It's generally a "if you're not part of the solution, get out, because you're part of the problem."

As for moving at night, I've gotten really good at doing night hikes using only a glowstick for light. Green colored glowsticks work really well for this, both the LED ones, as well as the more standard chemlights. Over all, while I usually keep a few chemlights around, I prefer the LED ones, you can turn them on and off as you need, they provide quite a bit of light, and are not heat/light sensitive to the point that they end up going bad before you use them (if you leave a chemlight out of it's package, it's usually toast in a few days of direct sunlight).

Thanks for the glowsticks tip, appreciated. I've been thinking on getting one of those new fangled battery powered ones.

As for the mass casualty event I was writing of, I meant more along the lines of a SHTF type of event where first responders may not be available/surviving ones overwhelmed.

On a similar note, take note on general traffic flow. If a high percentage is walking a particular direction, you might have more difficulties going against flow if you need to. Investigate & re-route as need be...

 

[etrain16]

I am one of about 10 folks asked recently to join a group at work to develop a disaster preparedness plan for our company. That plan will include getting business communications and operations back up and running. But it will also include providing for the short term needs of employees if they happen to be at work, say, should the Cascadia quake hit. My initial job is to come up with some planning for the immediate needs of employees at each building - first aid, safety/security, basic needs like food/shelter. Then we'll work on also helping to inform employees of how to equip themselves for getting back home should they make that choice. It will be an interesting learning experience since this planning is not for me and my family, but we have to look at a plan for upwards of 100 people. Definitely have a lot of research to do.

 

[ChiefStealth]

I am one of about 10 folks asked recently to join a group at work to develop a disaster preparedness plan for our company.

Did this at my work location, within the company. Planned how to take care of approx 50 people. Then, we asked people if they would want to stay at the workplace for any amount of time if an incident happened. Not a single person wanted to stay for any length of time. The disaster plan changed... big time.

 

[AMProducts]

I am one of about 10 folks asked recently to join a group at work to develop a disaster preparedness plan for our company. That plan will include getting business communications and operations back up and running. But it will also include providing for the short term needs of employees if they happen to be at work, say, should the Cascadia quake hit. My initial job is to come up with some planning for the immediate needs of employees at each building - first aid, safety/security, basic needs like food/shelter. Then we'll work on also helping to inform employees of how to equip themselves for getting back home should they make that choice. It will be an interesting learning experience since this planning is not for me and my family, but we have to look at a plan for upwards of 100 people. Definitely have a lot of research to do.

The three most important things given what you're planning for:
* Toilets
* Hot water
* Bodybags

Hygiene will probably kill people faster than not having food will.

 

[etrain16]

Did this at my work location, within the company. Planned how to take care of approx 50 people. Then, we asked people if they would want to stay at the workplace for any amount of time if an incident happened. Not a single person wanted to stay for any length of time. The disaster plan changed... big time.

If you have any key points you'd like to share, I'd certainly appreciate the info.

As for folks wanting to stay, it was interesting because they started the conversation with "how do we get the company back up and running again". My response was that in an event like the Cascadia quake, every single person in this room, in this company, won't give a rat's a$$ about operations for at least 24-72 hours - not until they know their family is safe and they have a safe base of operations - then the discussion about company recovery can really start.

The three most important things given what you're planning for:
* Toilets
* Hot water
* Bodybags

Hygiene will probably kill people faster than not having food will.

Very good points. I hadn't even thought of sanitation yet, but then, this process is just getting started. Our main office (where I work) is on the east side of the Willamette river, just across from downtown PDX. Our building is older construction, 2 stories. The risk of collapse alone is a big threat. My non-professional assessment of the situation is that we would see a high percentage of casualties, either deaths or serious injuries, just from the initial shaking alone. Rescue/recovery may or may not even be a viable option. Our best hope is that, if/when that big quake hits, it's not during work hours.

 

[The Heretic]

Did this at my work location, within the company. Planned how to take care of approx 50 people. Then, we asked people if they would want to stay at the workplace for any amount of time if an incident happened. Not a single person wanted to stay for any length of time. The disaster plan changed... big time.

I would be out the door before the earthquake stopped trembling. Not going to stick around in a building built 100+ years ago. My job is not crucial to recovery or helping people in a disaster, and I can work from home anyway.

 

[AMProducts]

Very good points. I hadn't even thought of sanitation yet, but then, this process is just getting started. Our main office (where I work) is on the east side of the Willamette river, just across from downtown PDX. Our building is older construction, 2 stories. The risk of collapse alone is a big threat. My non-professional assessment of the situation is that we would see a high percentage of casualties, either deaths or serious injuries, just from the initial shaking alone. Rescue/recovery may or may not even be a viable option. Our best hope is that, if/when that big quake hits, it's not during work hours.

Well, if you work normal business hours, you have about a 2 in 3 chance of not being there when an earthquake happens. Generally speaking, if it's not a soft first story (parking area supported by pillars) your chances of a collapse are fairly low. My suggestion, if you are really worried about a building collapse then adding recovery gear like high-lift jacks, breaker bars, cribbing supplies, dust-masks, gloves, safety-glasses etc. A really solid way of doing this is having a 20ft conex in the parking lot, stocked with emergency supplies with a heavy duty combo lock, and having select people knowing the combo.

What you might want to consider if most people are interested in leaving... You want them to stick around long enough to get a head-count. (you want to make sure no one is left in the building) have a grab and go 72 hour kit with each employees name on it in the conex. If something happens, you can just hand out the bags to the employees, at the end if you have unclaimed bags, you know those people were either not at the office, or are trapped in the building. This is also kinda've a nice "our company cares about it's employees" thing for when it's time to rebuild.

Back at the end of my last career (IT security) I started doing a lot of Disaster-Recovery/Business Continuity Planning. I don't think I still have any of the assessment paperwork or boiler-plate I drew up back then (2006), but feel free to pick my brain for anything you might need.

 

[etrain16]

Well, if you work normal business hours, you have about a 2 in 3 chance of not being there when an earthquake happens. Generally speaking, if it's not a soft first story (parking area supported by pillars) your chances of a collapse are fairly low. My suggestion, if you are really worried about a building collapse then adding recovery gear like high-lift jacks, breaker bars, cribbing supplies, dust-masks, gloves, safety-glasses etc. A really solid way of doing this is having a 20ft conex in the parking lot, stocked with emergency supplies with a heavy duty combo lock, and having select people knowing the combo.

What you might want to consider if most people are interested in leaving... You want them to stick around long enough to get a head-count. (you want to make sure no one is left in the building) have a grab and go 72 hour kit with each employees name on it in the conex. If something happens, you can just hand out the bags to the employees, at the end if you have unclaimed bags, you know those people were either not at the office, or are trapped in the building. This is also kinda've a nice "our company cares about it's employees" thing for when it's time to rebuild.

Back at the end of my last career (IT security) I started doing a lot of Disaster-Recovery/Business Continuity Planning. I don't think I still have any of the assessment paperwork or boiler-plate I drew up back then (2006), but feel free to pick my brain for anything you might need.

I was actually thinking about suggesting the conex in the parking lot - I think that's our safest idea for storing emergency equipment. I'll mark down the 72-hour bags for folks too - though I already have my own in my car, I suspect better than 90-95% of folks do not have something like that with them.

As for the building, it was warehouse storage at one point, converted to office space on the upper level. All old-growth type timber construction, with the lower area essentially a parking area supported by columns - so yes, I do suspect a high risk of collapse down to the basement floor. 90% of the employees work on the 2nd floor, which is at street/parking lot level.

I appreciate the offer to assist - any info is appreciated. A separate group is tasked with IT recovery and communications, but we're all working toward the common goal.

 

[etrain16]

I would be out the door before the earthquake stopped trembling. Not going to stick around in a building built 100+ years ago. My job is not crucial to recovery or helping people in a disaster, and I can work from home anyway.

That goes against every piece of 'professional' advice I've read, but I'm with you in that thinking - I don't expect our building to stick around for the 4+ minutes it will shake for a 9.0 quake. I think I'll take my chances and grab my bag and head for the door - about 150' from my desk. As we're a construction company, I've always got a hard-hat, safety glasses and gloves at my desk area, so I would throw those on while I'm moving to give me a better chance if things like lights start dropping and glass starts breaking.

 

[The Heretic]

We have drills and plans for active shooter and fire, maybe for earthquake, but as for "recovery" I am sure it is all about the corporation recovering and not anything for the employees/contractors once they leave the building. They don't even have a rally point or head count procedure.

I am sure that if an earthquake happened, most of the contractors would be let go immediately, and probably some of the regular employees - certainly the workers on the assembly line would be laid off at least temporarily.

I have no illusions whatsoever about my "employer" - they would let me go in a heartbeat if they didn't think they absolutely needed me, and even then, if some VP/et. al. needed to get his bonus, I would be let go regardless.

The one thing I have learned over 4+ decades of working is that almost all employers don't really give a fig about their employees. You have to watch out for yourself.

 

[etrain16]

We have drills and plans for active shooter and fire, maybe for earthquake, but as for "recovery" I am sure it is all about the corporation recovering and not anything for the employees/contractors once they leave the building. They don't even have a rally point or head count procedure.

I am sure that if an earthquake happened, most of the contractors would be let go immediately, and probably some of the regular employees - certainly the workers on the assembly line would be laid off at least temporarily.

I have no illusions whatsoever about my "employer" - they would let me go in a heartbeat if they didn't think they absolutely needed me, and even then, if some VP/et. al. needed to get his bonus, I would be let go regardless.

The one thing I have learned over 4+ decades of working is that almost all employers don't really give a fig about their employees. You have to watch out for yourself.

Our company, as would others like ours, would most likely be key in restoring certain infrastructure after a major event - we're an electrical contractor and would likely re-task all our efforts toward restoring critical infrastructure items, including hospitals, etc. Once that is stable, we would be working to restore customers. We would probably have more work than we could imagine for a year, probably longer. So it would likely be important that we do get up and running, at least so some extent, as soon as the employees are comfortably 'stabilized' enough to return to work.

 

[The Heretic]

That goes against every piece of 'professional' advice I've read, but I'm with you in that thinking - I don't expect our building to stick around for the 4+ minutes it will shake for a 9.0 quake. I think I'll take my chances and grab my bag and head for the door - about 150' from my desk. As we're a construction company, I've always got a hard-hat, safety glasses and gloves at my desk area, so I would throw those on while I'm moving to give me a better chance if things like lights start dropping and glass starts breaking.

My building is pretty sturdy - it used to be a warehouse, but it was built a LONG time ago, it is 9 stories, and it was not built with the idea of a severe earthquake in mind at all. I work on the second floor and if I can get to the door I can make it to the street level as a ramp comes up to the second floor and I won't need to make it through any stairs.

 

[etrain16]

My building is pretty sturdy - it used to be a warehouse, but it was built a LONG time ago, it is 9 stories, and it was not built with the idea of a severe earthquake in mind at all. I work on the second floor and if I can get to the door I can make it to the street level as a ramp comes up to the second floor and I won't need to make it through any stairs.

Where I'm at in the building, I'm not at ground level - but if I can get to the front of the building, I would be able to exit to a fairly safe/open space in the parking lot, with little threat of something falling on me in a collapse. That would be my first goal, assuming this, I'm guessing, nearly 100 year old structure survives long enough for me to get there.

 

[Medic!]

Don't forget the waterways and a boat, to get into and out of downtown Portland.

My Wife works downtown. And we have a plan in place.
Even if communications are down. She knows right where to go for me to pick her up.

 

[etrain16]

Don't forget the waterways and a boat, to get into and out of downtown Portland.

My Wife works downtown. And we have a plan in place.
Even if communications are down. She knows right where to go for me to pick her up.

That's actually part of my planning, just haven't worked out the logistics yet. Realistically I could cover 90% of my journey home on the Willamette, if I have a good, reliable solution that can be stored compactly and transported to the water by one person. Looking at some very promising inflatable options.

 

[AMProducts]

Our company, as would others like ours, would most likely be key in restoring certain infrastructure after a major event - we're an electrical contractor and would likely re-task all our efforts toward restoring critical infrastructure items, including hospitals, etc. Once that is stable, we would be working to restore customers. We would probably have more work than we could imagine for a year, probably longer. So it would likely be important that we do get up and running, at least so some extent, as soon as the employees are comfortably 'stabilized' enough to return to work.

In that case, you should add a few GP-Large tents to your kit, along with a water tender/trailer, and you should see if you can get some of the large propane tanks for refilling forklifts and the like. You should probably also find some catering contractors that are slightly out of area, as well as cots and sleeping bags. Because if you're running at 100%, you're probably going to want to be able to take care of your people on site. You should do the same thing with a port-a-potty contractor, most of them have toilet and shower trailers, and you should anticipate finding a contractor who can pull in a large diesel gen-set, along with a fuel contractor who can pull in a tender when you need it.

The big question is going to be what your attrition rate is. There are going to be some people who just won't come back, they want to care for their families, I'm fairly sure some of the older guys who either don't have kids at home, or who are divorced will probably be happy to show up and rake in the dough, along with the younger guys who don't have families. One thing you're going to definitely need is your accounts people on site, and you're also going to want a lawyer to negotiate "emergency rates" with whatever emergency management agencies show up, or with the electrical utility.

You might want to see what your options are as far as getting some commercial radios, this is a big topic, but either preparing to rent service on an existing trunking system, or getting your own frequencies and setting up your own radio system might be prudent.

 

[etrain16]

In that case, you should add a few GP-Large tents to your kit, along with a water tender/trailer, and you should see if you can get some of the large propane tanks for refilling forklifts and the like. You should probably also find some catering contractors that are slightly out of area, as well as cots and sleeping bags. Because if you're running at 100%, you're probably going to want to be able to take care of your people on site. You should do the same thing with a port-a-potty contractor, most of them have toilet and shower trailers, and you should anticipate finding a contractor who can pull in a large diesel gen-set, along with a fuel contractor who can pull in a tender when you need it.

The big question is going to be what your attrition rate is. There are going to be some people who just won't come back, they want to care for their families, I'm fairly sure some of the older guys who either don't have kids at home, or who are divorced will probably be happy to show up and rake in the dough, along with the younger guys who don't have families. One thing you're going to definitely need is your accounts people on site, and you're also going to want a lawyer to negotiate "emergency rates" with whatever emergency management agencies show up, or with the electrical utility.

You might want to see what your options are as far as getting some commercial radios, this is a big topic, but either preparing to rent service on an existing trunking system, or getting your own frequencies and setting up your own radio system might be prudent.

One of our biggest problems will be limited space outside the building - the parking lot is packed full as it is. We may be able to swing a single conex, but nothing more. I would fully expect many folks would get out as soon as they possibly could. And the nature of our business is that many folks could work remotely using phones and, if the infrastructure is up, computers. Most of our employees work in the field, not the office, so it becomes a management of logistics - get the word out to the employees, and those that can return to work at some point, will be able to do so.

The more I dig into this, the more daunting the task appears. This will take a lot of planning.

 

[Ura-Ki]

One of our biggest problems will be limited space outside the building - the parking lot is packed full as it is. We may be able to swing a single conex, but nothing more. I would fully expect many folks would get out as soon as they possibly could. And the nature of our business is that many folks could work remotely using phones and, if the infrastructure is up, computers. Most of our employees work in the field, not the office, so it becomes a management of logistics - get the word out to the employees, and those that can return to work at some point, will be able to do so.

The more I dig into this, the more daunting the task appears. This will take a lot of planning.

How much do you need to have "ON SITE" to be able to run things? Can you set up remote operations off site? What about temp office space like a job site trailer(s)? If this works, this might help solve other issues like sanitation and food, water, and supplies storage and disposal! Depending on how bad the situation is, just getting to work may not be possible, and if it is, could be difficult for ongoing operations!

 

[etrain16]

How much do you need to have "ON SITE" to be able to run things? Can you set up remote operations off site? What about temp office space like a job site trailer(s)? If this works, this might help solve other issues like sanitation and food, water, and supplies storage and disposal! Depending on how bad the situation is, just getting to work may not be possible, and if it is, could be difficult for ongoing operations!

That's all part of what we're trying to decide - and the process is just getting started. Our parent company is out of state, as are most of our servers - all outside the danger zone - so core business information is well protected.

The first concern is how we handle employees if the big one hits while we're at work, and we find we have to suddenly care for 50, 100+ employees for 24, 48, 72 or more hours. Fact is that we'll likely have dead, severely wounded and a number of folks that will never be able to walk home. But I suspect a high percentage would make for home as soon as it was possible/safe to do so.

Coordinating remote operations is possible, but if communications infrastructure, especially network infrastructure cannot be restored quickly, it will hamstring a lot of our operations. We may have to work with radios and phones for a time, along with handwritten documentation, at least until things can get up and running a bit more normally again. From what I've read, we could be without electrical power for weeks, even months depending on how badly the distribution system is damaged. No power makes all that much more difficult too.